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How much is my ankle worth?

First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 10,136
edited July 2011 in Commuting chat
I'm a long time commuter, but this is the first time I've had a question for the forum.

I was recently scooped up by a car and deposited on the tarmac in the middle of the road. A driver who had been in clear view of me (and vice versa) for fully 20-30 seconds jumped out of the side road in which he was waiting, to cross the road I was on, and collected me on his way. He was still accelerating when he hit me. It was entirely the driver's fault (the side window offering a poor view of the road in front of him, but an excellent view of the approaching car he really should have allowed to pass) and he's admitted liability to both the police and his insurance company. This will cost him a £180 fine and 6 points.

I've got myself a solicitor and there is lots of time before I need to worry about a final settlement. My question related to the value of my ankle, my summer, my hobbies, arthritis and so on.

My ankle was shattered into about a dozen pieces. I've had two operations and I've got three incisions and had a bone graft from my hip. There are three plates, multiple screws and lots of wire and superglue holding what's left of my ankle together. About 25% of the cartilage on the upper surface of the ankle joint is missing, so the joint will be arthritic (manifesting anywhere between immediately and forever, or in 20 years) and there will be at least some restriction in the range of motion - thankfully most probably not so as to prevent me from cycing annd the other activities I do. Who knows how the ligaments and tendons will behave and what pain will be caused by exercise or for how long.

I spent 11 nights in hospital, had an external frame for 10 days between operations and I was on morphine for a lot of that time. I passed out twice with pain. In total I'll be unable to put weight through my leg for 12 weeks and the physical therapy will take at least 9 months in total. Who knows how long it will be before I can get back to full fitness.

Setting aside issues such as damage to property and loss of earnings (none as yet), how much would be a reasonable offer from an insurance company? Anyone work in insurance and know the upper and lower limits? Anyone had injuries of similar severity and had settlements?

Knowledge is power, as they say, and it would help to have at least some idea in order to assess how good my solicitor is!! That, and I have a lot of time on my hands just now.

NB: I understand that each case must be considered on its own particular facts, so I request in advance not to be notified by everyone with legal experience that I've asked an impossible question, blah. Part of this thread is about catharsis and the therapeutic value will be negated by know-it-alls (yes, I've followed the odd thread on this forum!!!)
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  • asprillaasprilla Posts: 8,440
    TBH, you'd probably be best of stripping it for spares and selling the parts individually.
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  • bails87bails87 Posts: 12,998
    PM Sent

    Get well soon, that sounds pretty nasty!
    MTB/CX

    "As I said last time, it won't happen again."
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 10,136
    Ha ha - I hope its cheaper on Kindle.
  • £2/page!
  • Cleat EastwoodCleat Eastwood Posts: 7,508
    I'll give you a fiver for it. Do you take paypal.
    The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
    momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 63,450 Lives Here
    Your solicitor should be able to give you an estimation.

    It's to take into consideration the pain, inconvenience, psychological issues, impact on quality of life, etc.
  • inceince Posts: 289
    Sent PM

    All the best for your recovery.
  • KonaMikeKonaMike Posts: 805
    As said above your Solicitor will go for as much as he can get,he will claim for all the things mentioned above and more !
    When my wife hurt her back as a passenger in a mates car the Solicitor even claimed for the strain on me as I had to care for her whilst she was laid up !!

    She got £3000 for the back injury.
  • veronese68veronese68 Posts: 25,604 Lives Here
    I thought this should be on the thread about buying random things on Ebay.
    Sorry, nothnig useful to add but I hope it goes well for you.
  • spen666spen666 Posts: 17,709
    ....NB: I understand that each case must be considered on its own particular facts, so I request in advance not to be notified by everyone with legal experience that I've asked an impossible question, blah. Part of this thread is about catharsis and the therapeutic value will be negated by know-it-alls (yes, I've followed the odd thread on this forum!!!)


    So you want to know how much your claim is worth, but don't want those who have the relevant legal experience to answer

    Yep- you'll get a sensible set of answersthen

    Why not just ask people to quote random figures?
    Want to know the Spen666 behind the posts?
    Then read MY BLOG @ http://www.pebennett.com

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  • estampidaestampida Posts: 1,008
    so,

    an action against a driver (claiming against his car insurance)

    1) it will take years of willy waving to and from the respective companies, finally getting to court..... (see below)

    2) Just before the case starts they will offer you an out of court settlement

    this insures that there is no legal precidence that states a spacific injury also states a cost ( if they paid some one a mil for a broken leg, and you found out, the judge if he went in your favour of your claim would have to award a mil) as his guidence says to follow standart court protocol.

    to pay you less they would have to challenge the original case ruling.

    The bigger the ambulance chasers are, the harder the insurace companys fight the case, as they have thousands of clients

    and you will need for insurace tennis:

    medical data
    loss of earning's (total expected for your life)
    Drop in quality of life (if the surgery was very sucessfull this is very thin ice)

    trauma (ptsd, symtoms)
    Psycology reports (the NHS tries not to give reports due to loss of man hours)
    Psychiatry reports (including nuro - did you hit your head, increase chance of depression did they tell you that, or frontal lobe - loss of inhabition)
    character refs
    proof of cyclimg ability
    road accident reports - is this a black spot (claim against council maybe)

    once that is all done wait for the court date, they stall to see if you lose interest, and so forth, and get ready for them to treat you like a complete liar, which they will

    blaow
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 10,136
    spen666 wrote:
    ....NB: I understand that each case must be considered on its own particular facts, so I request in advance not to be notified by everyone with legal experience that I've asked an impossible question, blah. Part of this thread is about catharsis and the therapeutic value will be negated by know-it-alls (yes, I've followed the odd thread on this forum!!!)


    So you want to know how much your claim is worth, but don't want those who have the relevant legal experience to answer

    Yep- you'll get a sensible set of answersthen

    Why not just ask people to quote random figures?
    Do you suffer from Tourette's or something?

    No, I said I didn't want people to use the thread to tell me with great authority that they couldn't answer the question. I don't need people to tell me to know that its a bit of a "how long is a piece of string" question, or that law is jolly complex and you are all very clever, okay?

    For info, the tone of your message is precisely what I didn't want, unlike at least two pm's and several rather humourous responses. Just now I'm sat at home with my leg held together only by metal, trying desperately to be positive about my future and feeling a bit self involved and sorry for myself. I could really do without getting into any intellectual ping pong, okay?

    I don't want an accurate figure - I've not conveyed sufficient information for one thing. But at some stage its going to be helpful to know whether, if I get offered say £15k is it derisory, or if I push for £100k am I in cloud cuckoo land.

    Honestly, I'll figure this out in time, but I'm not too interested in tennis and it would be nice to fantasize about a new bike frame (mine's fine, but I just want a new one because the old bike has bad associations now) a new car, or a deposit for a house, ot a learjet.
  • SimonAHSimonAH Posts: 3,730
    Rough spot, really hope that your ankle recovers. FWIW I have a plastic kneecap (OK, I know not nearly as involved as an ankle) and twenty years since the surgery I am still absolutely fine (- put paid to Rugby though)

    It's easy to focus on compensation as the goal, but getting back (literally) on your feet is way more important.

    The stalling will really pee you off though, and stall they will.
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  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,781
    My piece of string is 14" long - how long is your's?

    I would expect for the injury somewhere between £10 and £15K depending on longer term prognosis, some of the other items are very subjective and dependant on 2 many factors to be able to make a meaningful guess.

    Make a note of EVERY out of pocket expence incurred, keep receipts if necesary.

    Use a decent local solicitor, not a 'claims management' ambulance chaser where your just one small fish in their big pond of income!

    As the driver has already been 'punished' I assume the incident was at least 4 months ago now? So by now your Solicitor should have got you being seen by a consultant to do a full written report on your injuries, treatment and prognosis as it stands now.....

    Simon
    Current steed - Whyte T129, 2013 frame, mongrel Revelations, Giant dropper, Stans S1 wheelset. 12, Magura Trail Sport brakes, 1x11. 12.8Kg
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 10,136
    Estampia - its not that bad. I don't want to give too many more details, but he's admitted liability, doens't appear to be claiming any mitigation and there are witnesses.

    Also there are no head injuries or loss of earnings to worry about.

    Good point about psychological assessments, though. And the extent to which I cycled. Lots of people know I was a 5-6,000 mile a year guy though (and will be again, even if I need to keep ice packs with me at all times).

    Medical record of the injury is in hand.
  • Keith1983Keith1983 Posts: 575
    If I were you I'd start scouring the net for some previous cases. This will give you an estimate of the previous amounts awarded. As mentioned previously if it went to court and a magistrate ruled in your favour this is what they would use to decide how much to award.

    And on the more important side of things I'm sorry to hear about your accident and I hope you recover fully and quickly. P.s. what size, make, model is the undamaged frame you said you don't want to ride again? I'll give you a fiver for it! :wink:
  • spen666spen666 Posts: 17,709
    spen666 wrote:
    ....NB: I understand that each case must be considered on its own particular facts, so I request in advance not to be notified by everyone with legal experience that I've asked an impossible question, blah. Part of this thread is about catharsis and the therapeutic value will be negated by know-it-alls (yes, I've followed the odd thread on this forum!!!)


    So you want to know how much your claim is worth, but don't want those who have the relevant legal experience to answer

    Yep- you'll get a sensible set of answersthen

    Why not just ask people to quote random figures?
    Do you suffer from Tourette's or something?

    No, I said I didn't want people to use the thread to tell me with great authority that they couldn't answer the question. I don't need people to tell me to know that its a bit of a "how long is a piece of string" question, or that law is jolly complex and you are all very clever, okay?

    For info, the tone of your message is precisely what I didn't want, unlike at least two pm's and several rather humourous responses. Just now I'm sat at home with my leg held together only by metal, trying desperately to be positive about my future and feeling a bit self involved and sorry for myself. I could really do without getting into any intellectual ping pong, okay?

    I don't want an accurate figure - I've not conveyed sufficient information for one thing. But at some stage its going to be helpful to know whether, if I get offered say £15k is it derisory, or if I push for £100k am I in cloud cuckoo land.

    Honestly, I'll figure this out in time, but I'm not too interested in tennis and it would be nice to fantasize about a new bike frame (mine's fine, but I just want a new one because the old bike has bad associations now) a new car, or a deposit for a house, ot a learjet.

    Its worth a £1 million


    its worth £0.01

    Its worth £10,000


    There is no way of valuing your claim without more details and if you don't want the people who have an idea what a claim is worth, then why ask what the claim is worth?

    If you stopped to think for a minute and read what you are asking, you are asking people to value a claim with no information and you are specifically excluding those who have the skills to value a claim from answering

    You are effectively asking the drunks in the pub to give you a figure and then say you are going to use this figure to help you evaluate how good your solicitor is

    Madness and stupidity spring to mind
    Want to know the Spen666 behind the posts?
    Then read MY BLOG @ http://www.pebennett.com

    Twittering @spen_666
  • fossyantfossyant Posts: 2,549
    Smashed ankle sounds nasty.

    I'm 2.5 years post accident, took over 2 years to get op on my shoulder, and 4 month's post surgery, I'm still in alot of pain, and I am taking meds to block the nerve damage pain (which looks permanent).

    The operation fixed my shoulder mechanically but it's still very painful when putting any weight on it. I do not have a clue what my PI will be. I'm about £1500 out of pocket having spent £2000 on physio and a few hundred on bike repairs, then on-going medication, travel costs etc - I've only had part of the physio re-imbursed so far.

    Only your solicitor can give you those answers. Have you seen an independant consultant yet - for the 'damages/injury'. I have my second visit next month - this one being post surgery.
  • crakercraker Posts: 1,739
    edited June 2011
    My mate got knocked off whilst he was on his way to get some cigarettes. (The story is he lay fairly serenly under this womans 4 x 4 and told her to calm down and has she got a cigarette?)

    This was some sort of fairly smashed knee, lets suggest the hospital stay and recuperation were similar to yours.

    The insurance company offered 30,000 or so but baulked at a larger figure requested (by whom I'm not sure) and he was told to get a reassessment of his injuries. They turned out to be healing less well than anticipated and because this chap only does manual type jobs was told he might not be able to do a standing up job within ten years (arthiritus).

    He got 60,000 + I think. This was ten years ago, no idea how much of that is left but he wandered into Dixons a while back and come out with a huge flatscreen TV, XBox & a laptop. Poor sod had a quadrupel heart bypass operation before his 40th birthday too. Finally, he's given up smoking.
  • spen666spen666 Posts: 17,709
    Oh & advice regarding mitigation and magistrates decisions really show the stupidity of asking such questions

    Magistrates decide criminal cases, a personal injury case is a civil case and has no connection directly with the decision in a criminal case. The law is different and the standard of proff is different

    Also mitigation is irrelevant as it is again a criminal term.

    no amount of mitigation will affect the amount of compensation in a PI case. ~Whether the driver is someone who deliberately drove over you 20 times or accidentaly knocked you off, stopped, took you to hospital etc- none of that affects the compensation which is decided according to the injuries and out of pocket expenses you suffered
    Want to know the Spen666 behind the posts?
    Then read MY BLOG @ http://www.pebennett.com

    Twittering @spen_666
  • W1W1 Posts: 2,636
    How much do you want for it?

    How much would make you feel better?
  • EKE_38BPMEKE_38BPM Posts: 5,821
    Note to self:
    1) Never ask Spen for advice
    2) Never turn to Spen for sympathy.

    It seems to me that the OP knows that it would be impossible for the legal eagles to give a definitive figure for the injury, so didn't ask for one.
    Legal eagles are loathe to answer any question that they don't have full disclosure on "You say it was a cloudy day, but what kind of clouds?" and for obvious reasons the OP is not going to give a full account of what happened.
    What the OP was fishing for is some anecdotal accounts of injuries and compensation.
    e.g. Me: left hooked by a stupid motorist resulting in whiplash requiring 9 months of physio. Compensation of a few grand, medical bills and out of pocket expenses paid.

    If Spen is unwilling or unable to help, why post to the thread? Maybe just to make the OP feel worse? If so, mission accomplished. censored !
    FCN 3: Raleigh Record Ace fixie-to be resurrected sometime in the future
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  • gtvlussogtvlusso Posts: 5,112
    Ugh nasty accident - hope it works out for you.....

    I am no lawyer, but I do know that Spen will not let this one lie........ever.

    Chin up and think about all the Peppa Pig you can watch....
  • EKE_38BPMEKE_38BPM Posts: 5,821
    Oh yeah, hope you feel better soon.

    On the Peppa Pig front, who are the hot children's TV presenters at the moment?

    I'm sure the hotties on kids TV are to keep the dads happy. Who was the presenter on Blue Peter who was told to dress like an old maid as she was getting some rather provocative 'fan mail'?
    FCN 3: Raleigh Record Ace fixie-to be resurrected sometime in the future
    FCN 4: Planet X Schmaffenschmack 2- workhorse
    FCN 9: B Twin Vitamin - winter commuter/loan bike for trainees

    I'm hungry. I'm always hungry!
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 10,136
    spen666 wrote:
    Oh & advice regarding mitigation and magistrates decisions really show the stupidity of asking such questions

    Magistrates decide criminal cases, a personal injury case is a civil case and has no connection directly with the decision in a criminal case. The law is different and the standard of proff is different

    Also mitigation is irrelevant as it is again a criminal term.

    no amount of mitigation will affect the amount of compensation in a PI case. ~Whether the driver is someone who deliberately drove over you 20 times or accidentaly knocked you off, stopped, took you to hospital etc- none of that affects the compensation which is decided according to the injuries and out of pocket expenses you suffered
    Terminology aside, whether or not the driver attempts to argue partial liability as a result of the circumstances is a factor in determining compensation, isn't it?
    e.g. if an accident is at night and the front light on the bike was dim, the driver could argue that this was contributory negligence, no? So lets just assume that words used on an anonymous internet forum are used colloquially, shall we?

    I didn't mention magistrates. The driver's criminal case, if there is one at all, is not my concern. Think of this as an out of court insurance claim. I doubt that it will get beyond that. From what I can tell, arguments over the compensation will be plus or minus 30% or so, not an order of magnitude. There are some concrete facts that will limit the range, i.e. there is a crush injury resulting in a multiple multiple fracture. There will be permanent scarring, loss of joint motion and stability, and arthritis. A new break later will not necessitate amputation, but could result in a worse prognosis than would otherwise have been the case. I guess that an adjuster would plug that lot in, and the adjuster the on the other side would plug that in, and their computers would spit outthe same numbers and the arguments would commence.

    Finally, Tourettes666, do you think you could resist the urge to call me stupid? I like to think I've a tolerable IQ - somewhere in the top 5% I think, so technically I'm not stupid - and I'm perfectly cognizant of the limitations of my question. As most everyone else will have figured out for themselves, I really just want to chat anonymously to pass the time, and I might just learn something in the process. Nothing written here will have the remotest influence on the outcome of events, whether it is accurate advice or science fiction. So don't worry yourself about that.

    Do you live next to s stream, under a bridge?
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 10,136
    W1 wrote:
    How much do you want for it?

    How much would make you feel better?
    (A1): I'm not really bothered, because its not going to change my life, and
    (A2): not a whole hell of a lot would make me feel better other than ripping the pedals off climbing a hill on my bike next summer.

    I have a lot of time on my hands.
  • MonkeyMonsterMonkeyMonster Posts: 4,628
    Hah, Spen is a lawyer, you do know they get their emotions removed at the psyence academy (or am I thinking of star trek...)

    He's correct though. You can have riders specific instances of what they got - by PM more than likely. Am very sorry indeed to hear of such a nasty injury and I hope you get what you need in recompense at the very least.

    But the few legal eagles on here would need much more and likely fairly accurate data across a range of points to get remotely close to a figure that would make any sense.
    Le Cannon [98 Cannondale M400] [FCN: 8]
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  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    spen666 wrote:
    There is no way of valuing your claim without more details and if you don't want the people who have an idea what a claim is worth, then why ask what the claim is worth?

    If you stopped to think for a minute and read what you are asking, you are asking people to value a claim with no information and you are specifically excluding those who have the skills to value a claim from answering

    You are effectively asking the drunks in the pub to give you a figure and then say you are going to use this figure to help you evaluate how good your solicitor is

    Madness and stupidity spring to mind

    I'm sure that what you say is technically correct. However, if you actually want to influence people and therefore be helpful, maybe you shouldn't be so condescending and pompous in the way you write your posts. Ultimately, you are just devaluing your knowledge by being a censored .

    Besides, this is a forum - I think everyone who posts expects fairly lay answers. Yours isn't the only profession that people ask relevant questions about. It would be pretty tedious if everytime someone asked a non-cycling related question that someone else with professional knowledge smugly posted about how ignorant the question was.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • MonkeypumpMonkeypump Posts: 1,528
    EKE_38BPM wrote:
    Note to self:
    1) Never ask Spen for advice
    2) Never turn to Spen for sympathy.
    3) Remember that points 1 and 2 above are common knowledge and I should know better than to take him seriously

    FTFY

    To the OP - hope you have a full and speedy recovery
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