the ultimate road clincher tyre

dbmnk
dbmnk Posts: 217
edited June 2011 in Road buying advice
I'm in the hunt for the ultimate road clincher tyre, which should supply:
    Comfort - high volume, supple casing Confidence - good grip and cornering (high volume, sticky rubber) Speed - low weight, low rolling resistance (low volume, supple casing)
Maybe speed and comfort is mutually exclusive, but then I'd lean a bit more towards comfort at the moment.

My current choices are:
    Veloflex Corsa 22 Vittoria Open Corsa CX 25 Schwalbe ZX 25
Reputedly Veloflex produce the best rubber but how would they compare in comfort and confidence to the others on my list?

How does the Veloflex tyres compare size-wise to other brands (Conti, Vittoria, Schwalbe)?

I mean, most brands sport 23mm, while Veloflex does 22mm - are they ultimately the same size or is there a difference like on the MTB tyre market?

Tradeoff is of course mileage, which I don't mind too much, but puncture resistance is a significant factor to evaluate on the ultimate tyre.

I've currently been going through 3 sets of Conti GP 4000 23 without any punctures, so figured I could dare a less resistant tyre by now with nicer rubber.

Running Michelin latex tubes, btw.

Edit: let's put to a vote
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Comments

  • inseine
    inseine Posts: 5,786
    You don't want much, do you? :wink:
    Your three wishes don't include puncture resistance but then you say it's important so you have four wishes which are a bit incompatable.
    What's wrong with the GP4000s?
    Personally I find pro3race feel a bit faster and ride better than Contis but the difference in puncture resistance has been laughable. I know others have had different experiences but I gave up with pro3race. I used to race on Veloflex paves after I switched from tubs because they seemed like the fastests and most supple clincher but they do wear quickly.
    I'm now on my 3rd or 4th set of Force and Attack which seem like a good compromise. They don't puncture but roll quite well. I've recently found that they feel better at higher pressures, around 115-120 where they feel more like the Michelins but of course comfort suffers a bit. They get my vote.
  • Ron Stuart
    Ron Stuart Posts: 1,242
    You don't tell us what type of riding you what the tyres for so I will assume you’re after an all rounder and not an out and out race tyre.
    Well I run Conti Grand Prix Black Chili 700 x 24 and they are just great for Training/Sportive especially on rough small lanes.
    For the major events I use Pro Race 3's which roll great but are a bit suspect to cut's hence the Conti’s for all round general use.
    IMO they are better than the conti 4000 and a lot cheaper they come in folders or wire-on's (cheaper still) and they last at least twice as long as the Pro Race 3's.
    :wink:
  • dbmnk
    dbmnk Posts: 217
    Thanks, so another vote for Veloflex?

    Well I meant, puncture resistance is only significant in choosing which top rubber if otherwise somewhat equal - I don't want to experience the tube blowout, as some have reported for Ultremo R1.

    Anyways, I found some answers to my question regarding tyre width here:
    http://www.biketechreview.com/tires_old ... g_rev9.pdf
  • dbmnk
    dbmnk Posts: 217
    yep I want an allrounder, but I'd like to experience the best there is just for my own joy.
  • dbmnk
    dbmnk Posts: 217
    added a poll
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    Vittoria Open Pave Evo CG Clincher for me.

    320 tpi comfort and some kevlar protection.

    See here:- http://www.vittoria.com/en/product/serv ... product-82

    But shop around! :shock:
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • Pseudonym
    Pseudonym Posts: 1,032
    dbmnk wrote:
    I'm in the hunt for the ultimate road clincher tyre

    there is no 'ultimate' tyre fella - at the top end they are all good and the only differentiator is personal preference.
  • Simon Notley
    Simon Notley Posts: 1,263
    I've used Cont GP4000S and Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX (??) , both in 23mm

    My feeling are that the Vittoria may be slightly faster rolling and possibly have superior grip in the dry, but the Contis have better grip in the wet. I have also found Contis (and to some extent Vittorias) to be much more puncture resistant that Veloflex or Michelin.

    Veloflex are probably the best in terms of performance, but the difference over the Vittoria or even Conti is so marginal I'd choose the better puncture resistance. I'll probably replace the Vittorias with Conti Attack/Force when they wear out and stick with GP4000S for training use.
  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    Your poll? None of em ....
  • Barteos
    Barteos Posts: 657
    dbmnk wrote:
    I'm in the hunt for the ultimate road clincher tyre, which should supply:
      Comfort - high volume, supple casing Confidence - good grip and cornering (high volume, sticky rubber) Speed - low weight, low rolling resistance (low volume, supple casing)
    Maybe speed and comfort is mutually exclusive, but then I'd lean a bit more towards comfort at the moment.

    Schwalbe Ultremo ZX 28mm (if your frame can take it)
    Comfort and speed aren't necessarily exclusive.
  • Scrumple
    Scrumple Posts: 2,665
    conti 4 seasons for winter and force/attack for my summer bike.

    krylion carbon for all round
  • slow_step
    slow_step Posts: 18
    Specialized S-works Turbo also worth a look, just converted over to these from michelin pro3race. Think the specialized turbo's have the edge, however only done 100 miles on them so far
  • Butterd2
    Butterd2 Posts: 937
    Another for none of the above.
    Scott CR-1 (FCN 4)
    Pace RC200 FG Conversion (FCN 5)
    Giant Trance X

    My collection of Cols
  • Poulsy
    Poulsy Posts: 155
    Used to use Pro 3 but decided to try GP4000s and they feel more supple and seem to get less cuts.
  • Gazzaputt
    Gazzaputt Posts: 3,227
    None of the above for me.

    Conti GP Force/Attack.
  • nferrar
    nferrar Posts: 2,511
    Schwalbe Ultremo's get my vote, they are a pretty soft compound so the tread does cut up more than some tyres but that's what you need for grip - even then I use them as winter tyres as well so it's not like they fall to bits. Conti tyres with black chilli compound are as close to a grippy but durable tread tyre as you'll get but IMO they aren't as grippy in the dry as an Ultremo.

    As long as you don't use the Evo version of the Ultremo ZX you should get OK puncture resistance to (on the previous generation version the only puncture I had was a double blow-out when I hit a big man hole cover at speed which you'd need to be running tubeless to avoid happening).
  • Bozman
    Bozman Posts: 2,518
    I used conti 4000/4000s up until early last year but now i use Vittoria open corsa evo cx, these give cracking grip and feel great, the first time i went out on them it felt like i had new wheels.
    If i had to find a downside to the corsa it'd be grip in the wet, the 4000s gave me more confidence but maybe that's just confidence because i used the 4000s all year round.

    I won't mention punctures because it's all down to luck but they're as good as each other in that area.

    The only tyre that gave me problems was the pro3, but like i said the countless punctures could've been an endless run of bad luck, plus they cut up like soft cheese.
  • Evil Laugh
    Evil Laugh Posts: 1,412
    I'm keen to take a look at the new Vittoria sc evos. Seem to be a middle ground between corsas and paves, better wet grip and tougher than corsas by all accounts.

    If you're after a good supple ride I'd look at Vittoria or Veloflex. I use both and am very happy with each. No punctures yet on 2 sets of paves or on the veloflexes. Feel better to me than contis or pro 3 in terms of nice road feel. Veloflexes feel so good in the corners. Haven't tried schwalbe and never would due to the massive logos but that's another matter entirely.

    Def trying the new vittorias next, sound great.
  • Zachariah
    Zachariah Posts: 782
    I'm liking the Vredestein Fortezza Superlites at the moment - very smooth, fast and grippy at high pressures. No problem with punctures so far, and I ride to the track and back over 27 miles of country roads.
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,803
    Evil Laugh wrote:
    I'm keen to take a look at the new Vittoria sc evos.

    Me too. Definitely my next tyres.
  • Stuey01
    Stuey01 Posts: 1,273
    dbmnk wrote:
    I don't want to experience the tube blowout, as some have reported for Ultremo R1.

    I thought this was due to a dodgy batch and there was a recall ages ago? Is this still a persistant problem?
    I have these tyres and really like them, but don't fancy a blowout much.
    Not climber, not sprinter, not rouleur
  • alfablue
    alfablue Posts: 8,497
    Yes there was a recall notice, depends on the production number e_img_ultremo_code.jpg
    (not that actual number - see this Schwalbe Ultremo R Defect Notification).

    I think the defect has been fixed with subsequent products, I wouldn't be concerned as long as your tyres are not from that batch (this was 2 years ago).
  • Stuey01
    Stuey01 Posts: 1,273
    That's what I thought, thanks.

    I bought mine from Evans last summer so very much doubt that they are faulty batch. will check anyway to be on the safe side.
    Not climber, not sprinter, not rouleur
  • JRooke
    JRooke Posts: 243
    recently whacked on some zx's, they are freaking awesome, cornering grip is insane
  • inseine
    inseine Posts: 5,786
    All this talk oh grip has got me thinking I'm missing something! I know of so few situations where grip is ever an issue, or am I not being aggressive enough? Surely on a bike loss of grip is so quickly followed by massive crash we don't reay explore the limits?
    I've ridden plenty of fast crits and descended the high mountains and I think I've only crashed once due to lack of grip, but I'm going to go out now and attack some corners!
  • P_Tucker
    P_Tucker Posts: 1,878
    inseine wrote:
    All this talk oh grip has got me thinking I'm missing something! I know of so few situations where grip is ever an issue, or am I not being aggressive enough? Surely on a bike loss of grip is so quickly followed by massive crash we don't reay explore the limits?
    I've ridden plenty of fast crits and descended the high mountains and I think I've only crashed once due to lack of grip, but I'm going to go out now and attack some corners!

    This is of course entirely correct. But that won't stop lots of people explaining how they can corner a million times faster on xx tyre vs xx tyre's main rival.
  • dbmnk
    dbmnk Posts: 217
    inseine wrote:
    All this talk oh grip has got me thinking I'm missing something! I know of so few situations where grip is ever an issue, or am I not being aggressive enough? Surely on a bike loss of grip is so quickly followed by massive crash we don't reay explore the limits?
    I've ridden plenty of fast crits and descended the high mountains and I think I've only crashed once due to lack of grip, but I'm going to go out now and attack some corners!
    I favor tyres that feel grippy in order to inspire confidence in corners and decends - just to take the sissy out of me since I probably wouldn't push most tyres to their limits. Well did skip a couple of times, but mostly I'm too careful I reckon.

    Rubino pro are definately not grippy, though.
  • dbmnk
    dbmnk Posts: 217
    cadseen wrote:
    Why comparing 22 against 25 tyres ?
    Since you carnt have veloflex in 25, but their supposedly superior feel could make up for what they lack in volume.
  • dcj
    dcj Posts: 395
    vittoria or veloflex the most supple tub-like characteristics, reflecting their genes

    conti gp4000 best puncture resistance and wet grip

    pro race3 sits between the above

    schwalbe - similar part of the spectrum to pro race3

    all good but different flavours.

    you can't really go wrong with gp4000 but its not the most spectacular ride experience.

    the veloflex and vittoria give you more back but probably will go bang sooner than you would like/expect, especially if you ride in areas with flints and chalk.
  • sheffsimon
    sheffsimon Posts: 1,282
    Put 120PSI in my Ultremo ZX last night just before start of a race and it went bang. Tube burst through side casing, so I had to borrow a wheel.

    Looks to me like the casing has split rather than being cut because the split seems to be in line with the threads on the inside of the casing.

    I will have a closer look tonight but I think Parkers will be getting it back in post as its barely used.