Full face XC/AM lids?

realnumber 1

Is it just me or does anyone else think helmet manufactures are starting to miss a trick?

Can anyone explain why full face XC/AM haven't become more popular?
With the popularity in recent years of faster longer travel trail/AM bikes and trail centers which imo seem to be getting faster, harder and potentially more dangerous it seems strange to me that they're not taking a slice of this market.

Having owned a Met Parachute for the last couple of years I think it's great. It gives good head coverage and is well ventilated for longer rides and the chin guard has saved my face on a couple of occasions.
My only gripe is no one else makes anything like it to give us more choice. The only other one I have found after looking is the Casco Viper although I don't no much about them yet...

Why did Giro stop making the Switchblade? My mate has one and imo if they brought it out now I would get one over the Parachute!

I can't be the only one who values their ugly face can I?

nicklouse

too F-ing Hot for most people.

the Viper is fugly and poor design.

and if the met has "saved" you a few times it may be time to replace it.

realnumber 1

That was my 1st thoughts on the Viper tbh.

As for the Met it's not taken any big knocks and if it had I would get a new one. But the chin guard has saved me from scraping my face a couple of times...

As for the heat thing I don't find the Met any hotter than my old Giro. Surely the others can come up with something similar...

skaffen

realnumber 1 wrote:

Is it just me or does anyone else think helmet manufactures are starting to miss a trick?

I think there's two main problems for the manufacturers. Firstly, it's probably a relatively niche market, most XC/trail riders are happy with normal helmets. Secondly, I know if I was making a hybrid helmet (ie. an XC style lid with a bit of face protection) I'd have to budget in a massive legal bill straight off. Initially just to write some really, really good disclaimers, but even then I'd expect to get sued. If you do proper full face protection it's going to end up looking like a traditional full face helmet. If you do something in between, it might give protection from grazes, but it's not going to protect you in the same way. The problem is that no matter how much you tell people that, someone is going to use it when they should be using a "proper" full face, and you'll end up with someone sending you a solicitor's letter with big numbers on it and a picture of what's left of their face.

I just think it's probably too much hassle for most manufacturers.

matt1986

I have recently ordered a bell sequence after trying a few different ones on. I found the full face lids to baulky and heavy then again I hate wearing lids and don't wear then as much as I should but having 2 decent offs this weekend in park bridge and daisy nook has made me revise my wearing of helmets and that persuaded me to order a new one to arrive with my gt when the cycle to work scheme pulls it's finger out

cooldad

Just toughen up your jaw.

agg25

I happen to agree realnumber1, the parachute is also very expensive, more than most full faced, so a bit of competition would drive prices down a bit. I think the parachute strikes a good balance between protection and weight/heat, just that the price could be better.

.blitz

There is definitely a market for this sort of thing in the same way there's a market for knee pads. The Parachute is great for shrugging off trail scuffs and scrapes but it needs taking to the next level with an integrated chin piece and perhaps a better retention system.

Richie63

Spesh Deviant?

Northwind

cooldad wrote:

Just toughen up your jaw.

I take it you've not heard how Dan lost that left eye then? An XC/AM crash with no full face! Tragic

Anonymous

Smashing up the jaw isn't a main concern for me. Ugly enough as it is.

Main concern is snapping the neck or cracking the skull.

That said, regular full face helmets fit like motorbike helmets and are good for protecting the head in general. Still does nothing for avoiding neck twists.

What I don't get though are the XC helmets with the little chin protector thing sticking out. Worse is when they are claimed to be full face helmets!. The chin protector will just get destroyed in an instant in the same way a visor does and you'll still smash the chin up.

Northwind

deadkenny wrote:

What I don't get though are the XC helmets with the little chin protector thing sticking out. Worse is when they are claimed to be full face helmets!. The chin protector will just get destroyed in an instant in the same way a visor does and you'll still smash the chin up.

If you mean parachutes and the like, that's not true, they don't offer a lot of protection but they're not as fragile as that. They seem pretty effective at stopping minor face injuries (which after all is what most face injuries are, we're quite good at protecting our noggins)

realnumber 1

deadkenny wrote:

What I don't get though are the XC helmets with the little chin protector thing sticking out. Worse is when they are claimed to be full face helmets!. The chin protector will just get destroyed in an instant in the same way a visor does and you'll still smash the chin up.

The Parachute can claim it's a full face because technically it is...

It's much stronger than a visor lol, but they're only made to take a moderate impact compered to full on full face lid.
But for the most part imo it's enough for most aggressive trail riders which brings me back to my original post....

Anonymous

Ah, I get you now. That's what you're referring to. I've not actually tried those sorts of helmets but my doubts remain the same. They just don't look substantial enough, but then I've had either minor faceplant scrapes which don't bother me, or go for it full on with the intention of having a trip to the local ICU

P-Jay

I ran a met Parachute for a year or so, fugly as sin but who cares when you're 'out there'.

There are limits to the design, the way it secures is the same as any XC lid, so if you're unlucky and have the one in a million impact that hits the chin bar, but not the peak area it's just going to tilt the helmet down your face.

It's going to stop you get chin cuts etc and protects a lot of the lower sides of your face than a normal XC lid.

I had no fears over the chin bar itself, it's mighty strong, a lot stronger than the poly lid it's secured into so it wont snap, worse case it'll break away from it's mountings and hit you in the chin, that might sound bad, but it would have disipated a lot of the energy of the impact first and it's not better or worse than hitting the chin with your jaw.

In short they do offer more protection that a like-for-like XC lid, but are certainly no match for a proper FF lid.

I have to admit when they came out they were going to be the next big thing, but it didn't work out like that. I never found it any warmer that a normal lid, being basically a normal lid with a chin bar way away from the face.

Mojo_666

How does the chin gaurd on the Met Parachute feel?, does it feel solid as you would imagine and hope? or as it looks? like it could snap and get thrust into your eye or something.

P-Jay

Mojo_666 wrote:

How does the chin gaurd on the Met Parachute feel?, does it feel solid as you would imagine and hope? or as it looks? like it could snap and get thrust into your eye or something.

It's solid plastic. I would put the chances of it shattering into sharp shards to stab you in the eye as about 0%, it's amounted by two bolts to a much softer material so would break away there, rather than snap.

Northwind

It's a legal requirement that any thread about Parachutes includes this picture:


But everyone assumes he'd have been completely unscathed without the helmet. I think he'd have been eating through a straw.

Mental Mickey

This...



http://www.bulltough.com/

CharlieH

I've been thinking the same thing recently. I tried a spesh deviant which was very light, well ventilated and felt like a normal xc lid BUT it was bloody uncomfortable and dug into my head. I've since bought a giro remedy which is reasonably well ventilated and I just take it off for long steep fireroad climbs.

My only other idea was to take both types and use my larger camelbak to carry whichever one I wasn't using and just switch between the two. Bit extreme though

rockmonkeysc

They look like they would give very minimal extra protection on the face because there is not much to stop them moving around on your head as you bounce down the trail on your face.
To be honest I think proper AM bikes are pretty pointless in the UK unless your are using them as a mini downhill bike. For gravity enduro style riding I use a DH full face helmet & just take it off for the climbs

joshtp

Parachute is a joke.... get a deviant... it's a proper FF, meets all the standards, but it's exceptionally well ventilated.

CharlieH

joshtp wrote:

Parachute is a joke.... get a deviant... it's a proper FF, meets all the standards, but it's exceptionally well ventilated.

If it doesn't dig into your skull!!!!! I tried two on at my local spesh shop and thought they were awful!

Northwind

RockmonkeySC wrote:

They look like they would give very minimal extra protection on the face because there is not much to stop them moving around on your head as you bounce down the trail on your face.

What do you think's better- scraping your face down the trail or your helmet? They're not designed to stop massive blunt force trauma (faces rarely take that sort of hit anyway), they're designed to keep your skin on.

bennett_346

totally pointless creation, if you think you need a ff helmet then just wear one and get a backpack with a ff helmet holder strap, then you can switch between a normal and full face between trails. there is never going to be a midpoint that will offer the benefit of either in a way that makes it worth creating and buying.

Anonymous

Scraping skin off is not my main concern. I don't feel that a full face is really primarily about offering that protection either. Whilst it does, it's more about the solid structure and close enclosing fit all around the head. If doing DH, that's what I'm after, along with the neck brace and rest of the armour.

XC / AM stuff, I never seem to hit the chin. Usually it's the nose, eye area and forehead. As I've found though, scrapes heal quickly. May leave the odd scar but I'm ugly anyway. They are the least of my worries. Okay could have a bigger scrape requiring surgery, but still it's not life threatening generally.