Talk To Me About Groupsets.....

Mark Elvin

OK, I'm fairly new to road bikes & totally new to geared road bikes.

I've been looking at the Ribble New Sportive with a Shimano 105 groupset, bu I see it can also bet bought with a Campag Centaur & Sram Rivel G/S.

What the main notable differences between these?

I'm tempted by the Campag Centaur as it can be bought with the Campag Zonda wheels that are 700g lighter than the std wheelset that comes with the bike.

StillGoing

Try them all and decide. I personally like the SRAM double tap system.

mattv

Going campag will limit you with spares. You will need to replace cassette with campag, freehub with campag etc. These parts are generally more expensive than Shimano or SRAM components. Between the trousers you mentioned, its alot about personal choice and how you like a gear lever to feel.

Bar Shaker

I prefer SRAM trousers. Double taps are the future.

ShutUpLegs

Bar Shaker wrote:

IDouble taps are the future.

Absolute codswallop

warrior4life

All good groupsets, Just go with the one you like best.

I like sram mainly because its cheaper and lighter and performs just as well as its equals.

danowat

Apples v Oranges TBH

I have SRAM Rival, 105 and Tiagra, TBH, they are all perfectly fine groupsets, and I really can't see anything that would make me pick one over the other.

edhornby

there's not much between the 3 options you have - if you are on a strict budget then don't be afraid to go for tiagra and spend the cash on better wheels.

Wheels are way more important than gears

jeepie

I recently purchased a new bike with SRAM Apex. I have 105 on another bike.

I had lots of problems with left hand shifter and cable tension for the 105. These were well reported on here at the time. I have now got this fixed (very expensive bill for a snapped shifter) and now my 105 is working flawlessly. For this reason alone I would not buy a Shimano groupset again (or at least for a few years whilst I'm smarting about it).

I wouldn't buy a Campag groupset due to my concern over maintenance costs and the availability of replacement parts.

So that left me with SRAM. You can run a very wide cassette range with Apex which I wanted on my commuter/tourer which is why I picked it. So if you're very fit you might not need this....

In terms of usage I'd say 105 feels faster and slicker. But I actually much prefer the more positive change of the double tap system. I've also never liked the moving brake lever on 105 when changing and I like the "solid" feeling of SRAM. So if I were you I'd go SRAM.

The key criterion of me is how much it costs to run though/durability.....I know 105 has cost me a lot. I would expect Campag to cost a lot too - just to the specificity of replacement parts. I can't tell you how well SRAM will last but I'm hopeful. If you want slick smooth racy feel then may be Shimano?

rolf_f

Jeepie wrote:

I wouldn't buy a Campag groupset due to my concern over maintenance costs and the availability of replacement parts.

At lest you can get parts for Campag - afaik you can't at all for Shimano. No idea about SRAM.

Still, it is a matter of taste. I use Campag Centaur and love it. The tactile quality is superior to Shimano and SRAM, it looks classier (IMO) and the shorter hoods suit my proportions (over long legs makes reach an issue). The thumb shifters are great (don't let anyone who thinks they are like the thumb shifters on the cheaper Shimano groupsets put you off) and, once set up, Campag seems to need little adjustment.

I think like for like, Campag components are slightly more expensive than Shimano/SRAM but it will work out at a penny or two a day difference at most so not worth losing sleep over. Mattv is wrong in that there are non Campag options for eg replacement cassettes but they don't really seem to be worth the savings.

Don't forget to look at the Special Edition bikes on Ribble - you won't be able to pick Zonda wheels but the prices are a lot cheaper and the Khamsins you can chose get you over half way to the Zondas for £30 rather than £280. 350 grams for £250 seems a lot!

For me I'd favour Campag first, SRAM second and Shimano is for mountain bikes (joke....)

Chris James

Jeepie wrote:

I
The key criterion of me is how much it costs to run though/durability.....I know 105 has cost me a lot. ?

In the interests of balance, I have a five year old bike with 105 drive train. Other than new chains it hasn't cost me a penny. In fact I have a 105 cassette on one set of wheels that is on its fourth chain and only showing limted wear and no skipping.

Getoffandmilkit

Jeepie wrote:

I wouldn't buy a Campag groupset due to my concern over maintenance costs and the availability of replacement parts.

The key criterion of me is how much it costs to run though/durability.....I know 105 has cost me a lot. I would expect Campag to cost a lot too - just to the specificity of replacement parts.

Not sure where you're coming from with the Campag maintenance cost thing. If a part goes in your Campag shifters you buy a new part. If it goes in your Shimano shifter you buy a new shifter. Guess which is cheaper. Campag have the better durability reputation as well.
All a bit of a red herring though. Get the one which is most comfortable in your hand.

jeepie

For Campag don't you have to buy specifically branded Campag replacements? That's where I'm coming from....

Getoffandmilkit

Jeepie wrote:

For Campag don't you have to buy specifically branded Campag replacements? That's where I'm coming from....

You can use KMC chains, Miche cassettes, any number of chainsets, brakes. The only Campag specific parts are the internals of the shifters.

jeepie

OK - Campy is back on the list Would be nice to have Shimano, SRAM and Campag to try!

StillGoing

I run SRAM Force with SRAM Red chainset. It's positive when changing, has never dropped the chain, I like the looks and the mech noise. The hoods give more room on the bars, the cable routing is clean and having small hands I can change gear from the drops. Double tap is a doddle to use for me and whilst it may be sacrilegeous to some to have put an American groupset on an Italian bike, I'm happy.

ShutUpLegs

philthy3 wrote:

I run SRAM Force with SRAM Red chainset. It's positive when changing, has never dropped the chain, I like the looks and the mech noise. The hoods give more room on the bars, the cable routing is clean and having small hands I can change gear from the drops. Double tap is a doddle to use for me and whilst it may be sacrilegeous to some to have put an American groupset on an Italian bike, I'm happy.

How do you find the Gripshift?

EKIMIKE

mattv wrote:

Going campag will limit you with spares. You will need to replace cassette with campag, freehub with campag etc. These parts are generally more expensive than Shimano or SRAM components.

Complete lies. The same applies to SRAM and Shimano. If you run Shimano then you need a Shimano Cassette and Freehub just as much as you need a Campag one if you're running Campag.

And is Campag really more expensive? I think you will find that on some components they are slightly more expensive, but on other components Shimano are slightly more expensive. The big issue with Shimano is that you can't repair the shifters which co-incidentally happen to be the most expensive part of the groupset.

Basically, my message to the OP would be to ignore all the above because it eventually evens out no matter which brand you go for. The key thing is that you get the system which your hands prefer because all three are very different.

PS Literally walk into a bike shop and get your hands round the levers and get the man to show you how they work and try it out.

dodgerdog

Mark,

I have a Gran Fondo running on SRAM Rival and my point of comparison is my old Spesh Allez equipped with a mox of Tiagra/Sora.

The running costs of the old shimano stuff have been negligible, after 5 years of running I have finally replaced the rear cassette and chain otherwise no issues to report. Changing has been good, no mechanical issues and 100% reliable. Swapped to the RIVAL gs in order to compare for future whilst still being able to swap wheels/cassettes should I wish between the machines.

The RIVAL is very positive as a change but the swap from thumb changing up to double tap takes some getting used to - it is just different. Braking is excellent, positive and plenty of feedback.

If you wish to have a try of RIVAL I am pretty local with a Ribble so PM me.

Valy

I don't understand - what do you mean you cna't get replacement parts for Shimano and sram? :S
d

rolf_f

He means that if something snaps in your Shimano or SRAM shifter, you need to get a new shifter. If something snaps in your Campag shifter, you can get the replacement part. How long it takes to get the part, how much it costs and how hard it is to fit is another issue but Campag do appear to focus more on repair rather than replacement than their rivals.

Valy

Rolf F wrote:

He means that if something snaps in your Shimano or SRAM shifter, you need to get a new shifter. If something snaps in your Campag shifter, you can get the replacement part. How long it takes to get the part, how much it costs and how hard it is to fit is another issue but Campag do appear to focus more on repair rather than replacement than their rivals.

Oh right now i see. I was thinking surely you weren' talking about chains cassettes and stuff like that!

EKIMIKE

It's a bit of a bug-bear of mine all this 'Shimano is cheaper'/'Campag is expensive' rubbish so excuse me if i'm going a bit OTT but:

Cheapest 10 Speed Campagnolo = £23
Cheapest 10 Speed Shimano Cassette = 31

Veloce Chain: £25.08
105 5700 Chain: £16.76

Veloce Front Mech: £19.80
105 5700 Front Mech: £19.00

Veloce Rear Mech: £59.18
105 5700 Rear Mech: £31.16

Veloce Brakes: £28.12
105 5700 Brakes: £51.16

Veloce Shifters: £80.30
105 5700 Shifters: £143.96

Veloce Chainset: £102.04
105 5700 Chainset: £92.76

Campag PT BB Cups: £15.80
105 5700 BB Cups: £15.80

All prices taken from Ribble as it's generally the cheapest, well stocked online shop. All Campag components have 20% discount. All Shimano have 30%+ discount. All genuine Shimano and Campag parts, no 3rd party manufacturers.

As you can see out of the 8 key groupset items Shimano are cheapest for 4, Campag for 3 and for BB's it's equal.

If you look at the expendables (Chain and Cassette) it's 1-1.

If you look at the 4 items Shimano are cheaper in, the total value of savings = £46.42

If you look at the 3 items Campag are cheaper in, the total value of savings = £94.70

I've done all the individual parts instead of the cost of an entire groupset because we're looking at replacements and maintenance. In any case a Campag 2011 Veloce groupset is £388.25. A Shimano 105 5700 groupset is £414.95.

The point isn't that one is cheaper than the other, they work out as about the same. Equally, there is discernible quality/performance differences between manufacturers, they all shift well and last well.The key thing is to get which system suits you. The main criteria should be which system best suits your hands as all three are different

tenor

If you are taken in by American marketing BS, buy SRAM.
If you have no sense of aesthetics, buy Shimano.
If you like beautiful engineering, buy Campagnolo

rolf_f

tenor wrote:

If you are taken in by American marketing BS, buy SRAM.
If you have no sense of aesthetics, buy Shimano.
If you like beautiful engineering, buy Campagnolo

Now this won't inflame the thread will it?

Chris James

Campags okay as long as you don't need ot buy a chain tool.....

mattv

I dont like being called a liar... Heres a test. Go into your LBS and ask what cassettes they have for Campag. Very few, if any choices at a lot shops. Compare that to Shimano. Also, I dont get on with the shape of the hoods on Campag.

rolf_f

mattv wrote:

I dont like being called a liar... Heres a test. Go into your LBS and ask what cassettes they have for Campag. Very few, if any choices at a lot shops. Compare that to Shimano. Also, I dont get on with the shape of the hoods on Campag.

Now you are being silly. Most shops do tend to stock mainly Shimano. However, you may be aware of this thing called the internet where you can by all sorts of stuff including plenty of choice of Campag. It isn't that difficult.

And who cares if you don't get on with the shape of the Campag hoods? I don't get on with the shape of Shimano ones but that is of no interest to anyone but myself.

EKIMIKE

Well as it goes my LBS is a Campag dealer.

Shimano is more widely sold which is one positive for Shimano, but Campag dealers do exist and so does the internet.

Question for you sir: Go into your LBS and ask them to fix your Shimano STI lever internals. No choice but a new lever. Compare that to Campag.

Also, i don't get on with the shape of the hoods on Shimano but it's still great kit for those that do.

Valy

tenor wrote:

If you are taken in by American marketing BS, buy SRAM.
If you have no sense of aesthetics, buy Shimano.
If you like beautiful engineering, buy Campagnolo

Where did you get the marketing BS from? :S

MrChuck

As others have said, objectively speaking they'll all work fine. Subjectively you may get on better with some than with others, but realistically it'll probably be hard for you to give them all a meaningful test before you buy.

All other things being equal, personally I'd probably get Shimano or SRAM over Campag because Campag strikes me as a bit more 'non-standard'- I appreciate this may be mostly in my head though! But my perception is that Shimano is stocked in virtually every bike shop in the land and Campag isn't.

All that said, if the bike I really wanted had Campag on it's not like I wouldn't buy it just because of that.