heavier S&S couplings Ti frame or lighter Ti/Carbon?

MattFT

Hi guys,

I'd like to hear your opinons and experience on this topic. Basically, I'm stuck between getting a heavier ti frame (enigma with S&S couplings) vs. a lighter weight Ti or carbon frame. I do quite a bit of travel with my bike, so I see the appeal of the S&S. However, the frame weight goes up to 1.8kg or so, vs. 1kg to 1.3kg for other options without the S&S. I don't race, but love a fast pace line and do a variety of riding from 80 mile sportives and the like to trips to the Alps to revel in the pain and being the first up d'Huez is important to me, sad though it is.

So, the questions.

On a similar build bike (I'll be going Campag Chorus and lightweight stem/bars/post) how much will I feel the extra 500g to 800g?

How much easier is travelling with an S&S coupling vs. a standard bike in a box?

Do the S&S couplings effect performance in a significant way?

Which would you get?

The question I'm not asking is ti vs. carbon

I await in hope for your wisdom.

Matt

dawebbo

500-800g is about the weight of a full bottle - so you should be able to test the difference yourself. I'd say it is pretty noticable, I'm sure some will argue otherwise...

Never used a frame with coupling, so can't comment on performance differences.

If it was me, I'd put up with the bulkier luggage (it's not that bad anyway) purely for the weight saving on the lighter frame

MattFT

yeah, it is quite a bit, isn't it. Hmmmm... decisions, decisions.

greasedscotsman

How about one of these? Not sure about how the weights compare, but I'm quite tempted to get one of the steel ones, just for the couple trips I do a year to the mountains.

http://www.ritcheylogic.com/dyn_prodfamily.php?k=365046

cougie

I don't reckon its that much you know. I cant tell on my bike if I have a full bottle or not.

If you say - you may be what - 70 kg - 500gr isn't even 1% of the combined weight.

MattFT

greasedscotsman wrote:

How about one of these? Not sure about how the weights compare, but I'm quite tempted to get one of the steel ones, just for the couple trips I do a year to the mountains.

http://www.ritcheylogic.com/dyn_prodfamily.php?k=365046

Yeah, a friend of mine has the steel one. He really wants the Ti one

PieterM

I have a ti Merlin with S&S couplings and I love it. I bought the frame used and had the couplings retro-fitted. It added 300g to it but it is well worth it for the convenience. It is the most comfortable and best descending bike that I have ever had. I have used this bike on all my bike trips in the past 5 years (I run tours so that has been a large number of trips) and would not swap it for any of my lighter bikes, even though the lightest is 1.5kg lighter!

greasedscotsman

MattFT wrote:

greasedscotsman wrote:

How about one of these? Not sure about how the weights compare, but I'm quite tempted to get one of the steel ones, just for the couple trips I do a year to the mountains.

http://www.ritcheylogic.com/dyn_prodfamily.php?k=365046

Yeah, a friend of mine has the steel one. He really wants the Ti one

And what does he think about it, other than wanting it to be titanium?

MattFT

greasedscotsman wrote:

MattFT wrote:

greasedscotsman wrote:

How about one of these? Not sure about how the weights compare, but I'm quite tempted to get one of the steel ones, just for the couple trips I do a year to the mountains.

http://www.ritcheylogic.com/dyn_prodfamily.php?k=365046

Yeah, a friend of mine has the steel one. He really wants the Ti one

And what does he think about it, other than wanting it to be titanium?

He really likes it. He's selling it, plus an old Seven Ti frame to get either the Richey Breakaway Ti or a custom ti from someone with S&S.

PieterM

Why not get the Seven retro-fitted?

MattFT

PieterM wrote:

Why not get the Seven retro-fitted?

Can you do that with Ti?

mroli

Enigma will customize their bikes for you with S&S Couplers. I saw one a couple of years ago at the Bike Show. It looked Lush.

MattFT

mroli wrote:

Enigma will customize their bikes for you with S&S Couplers. I saw one a couple of years ago at the Bike Show. It looked Lush.

That's what I'm debating:

Enigma with S&S (~1.8kg)
Enigma without S&S (~1.4kg)
Px Nanolight or Ribble Stealth carbon (~1kg)

Worth noting I'm coming from a 4 year old Condor Italia aluminum frame, so it's all going to feel plush, but I can't decide between out and out lightweight vs. ti vs. ti & travel simplicity.

PieterM

MattFT wrote:

PieterM wrote:

Why not get the Seven retro-fitted?

Can you do that with Ti?

Yes, read my previous post. It can be done as long as the frame has round top and bottom tubes. Quite a few of our regular customers have actually done it.

I'd think the most cost-effective option would be to get a used ti frame and go this route.

Burghley

Hi

I have two titanium frames with identical geometries - one a conventional frame and the other with S&S couplings. To be honest, I can't really notice any significant differences between the bikes on the road (they have different components so it can't be a scientific test). The couplings may add some weight (particularly if you also carry the S&S spanner with you), but don't seem to make any difference to the stiffness of the frame.

Bought the frames from XACD, with the souplings costing an extra $200 - together they cost around £1000 delivered!

Send me a PM if you want more information, such as the CAD drawings.

Rgds

Pete

tenor

The Ritchey approach is the engineers choice as it comes with no weight penalty and packs into its own case - pure genius.
Great report in C+ a few year back.