Giro Stage 5 *spoiler*

iainf72

The organisers are sending a team to look at one of the gravel descents today to see if it should be included in the race.

Not sure about everyone else, but I'm struggling to get excited about it at the moment.

CyclingBantam

I agree.

I wonder how we move on from here at the moment. Personally, I don't think they should be including grael descents or ones like the picture we have all seen which is due later in the race. Having said that, judging by the descent where the accident was, the nature of it was maybe not the cause.

It must be a really difficult line for the organisers to get right. Keep the course challenging and interesting but also not take excessive risks.

rick_chasey

I know there's a lot of chat about the Giro course being dangerous, especially in Belgium, but where it happened wasn't a particularly dangerous stretch of that descent.

It was just very unfortunate.

That's not to say there isn't an issue regarding rider safety and choice of route sure.

I think there is definitely place for difficult descents and difficult surfaces.

They may not necessarily be appropriate in the first few stages of GT.

I'll try and enjoy the racing. After all, that's what the pros take those risks for, right?

frenchfighter

I guess they push the limit sometimes but the crash wasn't as a result of dangerous roads, just pure sad misfortune.

I agree however that they should however be cautious in not doing anything rash.

The cyclists I think can also go slower or be more cautious where it is dangerous, but then if one or few don't then that puts the rest in a difficult situation.

frenchfighter

Steephill's preview:

Last year's Montalcino stage was such a hit (amazing photos) that the Giro d'Italia will return to the area with another stage across Tuscany featuring three hilly sections of strade bianche in the last 40 km. The strade bianche will have some steep sections maxing out at 15% and technical descents. However, unlike last year's dreadful weather for Stage 7, Stage 5 on Wednesday has a nice forecast.

After 191 km, the stage ends in Umbria with an uphill finish in Orvieto, an ancient Roman hilltop town inhabited since prehistoric times. There is a 12% uphill section, for 600m, 2 km from the finish before gradually leveling out. The last 500m is pretty much flat.

camerone

sounds to me as though it wasnt a technical part of road, more that Weylandt made a tragic lapse in concentration. Its human nature to concentrate more when the dangers are more obvious and relax slightly if something appears less dangerous.

I'd imagine even before this accident the technical descents on gravel would have been dealt with quite slowly...

blazing_saddles

Not surprisingly, the Monte Crostis descent is being reconsidered.
In which case, they may have to pull the climb out altogether.
http://www.cyclismactu.net/news-tour_d_ ... 15170.html

iainf72 wrote:

Not sure about everyone else, but I'm struggling to get excited about it at the moment.

Definitely the case, here.

cogidubnus

It is hard to be excited about the racing. But I am trying to think what Weylandts would want. He loved his bike racing and I am pretty sure he would want everyone to honour his memory by putting on a great show as hard as that will be for everyone in these difficult times.

Gazzaputt

Descents on gravel have no place in Pro racing imo.

cogidubnus

Gazzaputt wrote:

Descents on gravel have no place in Pro racing imo.

agree

calvjones

Cogidubnus wrote:

Gazzaputt wrote:

Descents on gravel have no place in Pro racing imo.

agree

Possibly correct. Cobbles too tho in that case.

Tom Butcher

Point made by Sean Kelly yesterday - it's not the technical descents so much as the very fast ones which he thinks have the greatest danger. I can see his point - there are statistics about pedestrian survival rates when hit by cars at different speeds aren't there - I don't have them to hand but I'm sure we've all seen them quoted - as you start getting much over 30mph survival rates decline rapidly.

I don't have a problem with the gravel roads planned for this giro - it's a test of bike handling and that's part of being a pro bike racer. It's not that long ago that unsurfaced mountain roads were normal and ridden without helmets - were there very many more fatalities and serious injuries back then - that's not the impression I get anyway.

LangerDan

calvjones wrote:

Cogidubnus wrote:

Gazzaputt wrote:

Descents on gravel have no place in Pro racing imo.

agree

Possibly correct. Cobbles too tho in that case.

Or wet roads, road markings, road furniture, less than perfect asphalt, falling leaves - problem is that by the time you have taken out all the risk factors, you are left with track racing. In fact, simply racing for 3 weeks around France , Spain or Italy in the first place may be far more deleterious to a riders health than any imperfect road surface.

Perversely, gravel descents may not be that unsafe - if you know you have very limited grip, you'll ride accordingly. Its when you are plummeting down a "good" road and then suffer some loss of grip that you are in biggest danger.

avoidingmyphd

iainf72 wrote:

Not sure about everyone else, but I'm struggling to get excited about it at the moment.

Me too, feels a bit empty. Let's give it a try though:

Kohler (BMC) has taken a solo flyer. His advantage is just over 10 minutes with 142k left

TheBigBean

Does anyone think Contador might try to steal some seconds today, or do you think he will play a waiting game?

cristoff

avoidingmyphd wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Not sure about everyone else, but I'm struggling to get excited about it at the moment.

Me too, feels a bit empty. Let's give it a try though:

Kohler (BMC) has taken a solo flyer. His advantage is just over 10 minutes with 142k left

Pardon my ignorance, I am fairly new to watching tour racing, but why do they bother doing this, seems to me that every time this happens they inevitably get caught and then they drift back into the pack never to be seen again as they have exerted so much effort?

FJS

cristoff wrote:

Pardon my ignorance, I am fairly new to watching tour racing, but why do they bother doing this, seems to me that every time this happens they inevitably get caught and then they drift back into the pack never to be seen again as they have exerted so much effort?

1) publicity for sponsor, and to some degree rider
2) you never know. occasionally it works out

RichN95.

cristoff wrote:

Pardon my ignorance, I am fairly new to watching tour racing, but why do they bother doing this, seems to me that every time this happens they inevitably get caught and then they drift back into the pack never to be seen again as they have exerted so much effort?

To get on TV. Getting in breaks is good exposure for your sponsor and their brand. Ultimately, cycling is just a branch of the advertising industry

calvjones

cristoff wrote:

avoidingmyphd wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Not sure about everyone else, but I'm struggling to get excited about it at the moment.

Me too, feels a bit empty. Let's give it a try though:

Kohler (BMC) has taken a solo flyer. His advantage is just over 10 minutes with 142k left

Pardon my ignorance, I am fairly new to watching tour racing, but why do they bother doing this, seems to me that every time this happens they inevitably get caught and then they drift back into the pack never to be seen again as they have exerted so much effort?

The sponsor gets on TV so the rider gets a pat on the back and is seen as a good egg by the guy who hands out contracts.

Oh, and the whole peloton may crash, or mis-time its reel in. They do ocassionally succeed

jibberjim

cristoff wrote:

Pardon my ignorance, I am fairly new to watching tour racing, but why do they bother doing this, seems to me that every time this happens they inevitably get caught and then they drift back into the pack never to be seen again as they have exerted so much effort?

There's always a chance it will work - there's not much of one - particularly with a single rider, but there's a chance.

It's good advertising for the team (get sponsors) and the rider (get another contract) too.

There's money/points/prizes at various intermediate points along the way which will be taken by the break.

Later on the more mountainous stages they'll be another reason too. By having your slower guys out ahead in the break who'd likely get dropped in the attacks by the main contendors if he stayed in the bunch, it means that the team leader will still have someone there to help him when he catches him. Likely not much - but something is better than nothing!

Abdoujaparov

cristoff wrote:

avoidingmyphd wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Not sure about everyone else, but I'm struggling to get excited about it at the moment.

Me too, feels a bit empty. Let's give it a try though:

Kohler (BMC) has taken a solo flyer. His advantage is just over 10 minutes with 142k left

Pardon my ignorance, I am fairly new to watching tour racing, but why do they bother doing this, seems to me that every time this happens they inevitably get caught and then they drift back into the pack never to be seen again as they have exerted so much effort?

And they can often mop up points in the intermediate sprints and mountains classification.

rick_chasey

RichN95 wrote:

cristoff wrote:

Pardon my ignorance, I am fairly new to watching tour racing, but why do they bother doing this, seems to me that every time this happens they inevitably get caught and then they drift back into the pack never to be seen again as they have exerted so much effort?

To get on TV. Getting in breaks is good exposure for your sponsor and their brand. Ultimately, cycling is just a branch of the advertising industry

This.

It also, occasionally, occurs that the breakaway ends up staying away all the way to the finish (or at least the remnants of the breakaway). In that case, riders who would normally not be able to outperform the favourites if riding from the same group have a good chance at a stage win.

Rather (in)famously, Jens Voigt and Tommy Voeckler have made careers out of winning stages in grand tours through breakaways, since on any kind of finish there are riders in the peloton who would easily beat them.

Abdoujaparov

Also, having a guy in the break means your team doesn't have to do any work at the front of the peloton to reel them in. Tactically, it's a shrewd move.

Abdoujaparov

Another tactical benefit on mountain stages is that the team leader is less likely to become isolated on towards the end because the person in the break can sit up, wait for them and help them out.

afx237vi

The only guy I can remember successfully pulling off a 100 km+ solo victory is Dave Zabriskie in the Vuelta a few years ago. That was only because Valverde crashed and the bunch eased up.

FWIW I also agree with LangerDan and Tom Butcher on page 1.

disgruntledgoat

Going back to the surfaces, I think Bettini commented yesterday that a race on any public road brings dangers and that's part of the test of professional racing. Judging by the shot of the barrier Wouter was said to have hit, I don't think the course is the issue, just a moments loss of concentration that had a tragic outcome.

Hopefully the strada can bring us the kind of day it did last year to remind us that along with the sadness we all feel now. The sport brings us enough beauty and joy to sustain us through the bad times.

Pross

LangerDan wrote:

Perversely, gravel descents may not be that unsafe - if you know you have very limited grip, you'll ride accordingly. Its when you are plummeting down a "good" road and then suffer some loss of grip that you are in biggest danger.

I'd agree with this, it may arguably result in more crashes but the severity is likely to be lower as even those pushing it to the limit or slightly beyond will still be going slower than on a comparable tarmac road. The biggest problem for safety are the roadside items such as walls or trees or conversely the unprotected vertical drops (I'm surprised no races have started putting ski netting on the outside of bends on some descents). On the back of Monday's tragedy it is easy to get carried away in identifying potential dangers but we shouldn't lose sight if the fact that fatal crashes and even those with serious injuries are few and far between considering the number of kms that professional cyclists cover in a season. Many of the injuries that do occur happen on high speed, flat sections of well surfaced roads when 150+ cyclists are going flat out inches from each others wheels.

FJS

afx237vi wrote:

The only guy I can remember successfully pulling off a 100 km+ solo victory is Dave Zabriskie in the Vuelta a few years ago. That was only because Valverde crashed and the bunch eased up.

It used to be much more common - I can remember people like Thierry Marie, Gerrit Solleveld and Jackie Durand pulling of succesfull mega solos in flat TdF stages in the early 90s

deejay

Gazzaputt wrote:

Descents on gravel have no place in Pro racing imo.

Now that shows how Great my Hero's were 45 years and more ago.
The Tarmac roads you see in the TDF these days, I rode them as Gravel in my day.

Pross

afx237vi wrote:

The only guy I can remember successfully pulling off a 100 km+ solo victory is Dave Zabriskie in the Vuelta a few years ago. That was only because Valverde crashed and the bunch eased up.

FWIW I also agree with LangerDan and Tom Butcher on page 1.

Chiappucci from the gun in the 92 Tour. Not sure how long Eros Poli's break was when he won the stage over Ventoux in 94 but must have been quite a long one as his lead exceeded 20 minutes at the base of the climb. I think Duclos-Lassalle had quite a few long breaks in his time but they do seem to have become less and less over the years. Groups succeed still of course as we saw when that large break that Wiggo got in succeeded in last years Giro.

avoidingmyphd

don't forget wiggins in the 2007 tour.

will the bunch catch kohler in time to give us some racing to talk about?