Yet another wheel question!
loukest
Posts: 89
Right, after a couple of previous posts I settled on hope hubs with a DT Swiss 585 rims to make sure it was super strong for my weight (15 stone and quite strong). I've now been told that the Hope hubs will not run campag 11 speed and I'm back to square one. Replacing it with a PMP or something along those lines would make the same build too expensive.
I've found a reputable wheel builder that will build PMP's on Excellight rims with 32 spokes on the front and 32 or 36 on the back. It was just about within my price range but I then read a review on here which said that they got some brake block rub with that set up (32 on both). My simple question is, would that be strong (with 36) enough for my weight and how would it compare in terms of its stiffness with something like a Ksyrium Elite. I like the look of the KS Elite and it's about the right price but I'm worried that with such a low spoke count it would not be stiff or strong enough. One other main consideration is ease of service and repair. Having waited three weeks for some fulcrum spokes, I'm pushing that up the list of "must be's".
I've found a reputable wheel builder that will build PMP's on Excellight rims with 32 spokes on the front and 32 or 36 on the back. It was just about within my price range but I then read a review on here which said that they got some brake block rub with that set up (32 on both). My simple question is, would that be strong (with 36) enough for my weight and how would it compare in terms of its stiffness with something like a Ksyrium Elite. I like the look of the KS Elite and it's about the right price but I'm worried that with such a low spoke count it would not be stiff or strong enough. One other main consideration is ease of service and repair. Having waited three weeks for some fulcrum spokes, I'm pushing that up the list of "must be's".
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Campagnolo record hubs are nice and should come in at the same price as the hopes. 32h only but this will be fine with the RR5850
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huuregeil wrote:Campagnolo record hubs are nice and should come in at the same price as the hopes. 32h only but this will be fine with the RR585
I did speak to the same wheel builder about the record hubs but they advised me against them. Apparently they don't use cartridge bearings and will wear quickly.0 -
???!!! Not sure where that idea came from! No, they don't use cartridges, rather cup and cone, but the bearings are extremely smooth and fully serviceable. I have some chorus hubs from a few years ago (virtually the same design) and they're going extremely strongly on my commuting wheels. I'd suggest some research into them.0
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loukest wrote:huuregeil wrote:Campagnolo record hubs are nice and should come in at the same price as the hopes. 32h only but this will be fine with the RR585
I did speak to the same wheel builder about the record hubs but they advised me against them. Apparently they don't use cartridge bearings and will wear quickly.
PMSL at this. I'd change the wheelbuilder.
If you stick with this sport you'll inevitably realise how daft his advice is.0 -
Who is the wheelbuilder?
My experince is that some of the guys who build wheels only want to use certain components as thats what they keep in stock. This tends to go against the benefit of having handbuilt wheels where you can specify what you want. That said if the wheelbuilder is experienced and reputable you should consider taking his advice.0 -
I think any wheelbuilder that advises that Record hubs wear "quickly" is questionable and best avoided as he's either taking the piss or else ill-informed.
There's just far too many real world miles (as in millions) to take that opinion seriously ...0 -
wildmoustache wrote:I think any wheelbuilder that advises that Record hubs wear "quickly" is questionable and best avoided as he's either taking the wee-wee or else ill-informed.
There's just far too many real world miles (as in millions) to take that opinion seriously ...
I'd rather not say who he is, I've never heard anything other than superb reports about this shop in particular, I don't want to do him/them a discredit if I've misunderstood. They did have them in stock so I don't think that was it either.....0 -
After 100's of posts I'm now down to two options.
Harry Rowland - 36 spoke excellight rim on PMP hubs
Mavic Ksyrium Elite
I like the idea of a custom but worried about getting brake block rub on the smaller, lighter rim. At 15 st I assumed that may be an issued, even on 36 spokes! I base that on a Bikeradar review I read on this site although they only used 32 spokes....... Any thoughts. Which one would be stiffer and stronger?0 -
loukest wrote:After 100's of posts I'm now down to two options.
Harry Rowland - 36 spoke excellight rim on PMP hubs
Mavic Ksyrium Elite
I like the idea of a custom but worried about getting brake block rub on the smaller, lighter rim. At 15 st I assumed that may be an issued, even on 36 spokes! I base that on a Bikeradar review I read on this site although they only used 32 spokes....... Any thoughts. Which one would be stiffer and stronger?
loukest
First of all I am not an expert but what I do know is that you and I are both currently having the same dilemma the only difference being I was looking at some RS80s rather than Mavics.
What I have learnt is that at 15stone you should be looking at the Handbuilts not Factory Wheels and this has been confirmed to me by the forum, Harry and Derek from Wheelsmiths so for me its going to be the Handbuilt option.
I also considered Aero Vs Open rims and got some conflicting information reagrding strength etc. The advice I got was that the aero rim would give a slightly harsher ride and may be ever so slightly stronger. For me any wheel by Harry (according to his reveiws) will be quality and is very unlikley to go out of true providing you give Harry all the right details.
Sometimes I think there is too much choice and if your not careful this stuff can drive you nuts! :roll: Other than the fact that I am about to place my order with Harry I do not know him so please be assured I am not biased in anyway. The reviews speak for themselves and unless you are competing at a high level the Handbuilt seems to be all the wheel you will need.
I am interested why you have specified PMP hubs because for me due to the rider weight and use of a compact chainset Harry advised to stick with Ultegra Hubs.0 -
Interesting. I chose PMP hubs because I like the look of them and the fact that they're a little bit different. You can have them in red which although a little sad, does appeal to me. It was also Harry that suggested them, not sure if this is anything to do with the fact that I'm on Campag 11 speed and whether an Ultegra version of that is applicable, really don't know. The thing putting me off them is the price.... and the review on Bikeradar. The review is for a set of Harry Rowland PMP hubs on Excellight rims, which again is what Harry recommended although he did say that there wasn't much difference between those and open pros. The review says that there was some brake rub which is what put me off. It is confusing, you're right and I do find myself going in circles.0
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Whats the price of the PMP/Excellight build?
For my build of Excellight rims, Ultegra Hubs, F1 spokes its £300. I agree about the look of the PMP hubs and i am sure the PMPs roll better but how noticable is this going to be and how important is the asthetics once you have had them a few months? I wonder if you would be better going Novatec or Ambrosio Zenith (i think these look good). The Novatec and Zeniths will be about the same as the Ultegras if not slightly less.0 -
Just found the review.
It carries a 4.5 star rating out of five and reads "These wheels from popular British wheel builder Harry Rowland are excellent for general purpose road racing and sportive use. They follow the classic 32-hole/three-cross design on which all road racing wheels were based before radical new designs such as the Rolf Vector and Mavic Ksyrium arrived.
Rowland normally builds with Ambrosio hubs but we asked for Italian PMP cartridge bearing hubs that are also a Rowland favourite, together with Excellight rims that have spoke eyelets to reinforce their wafer-thin aluminium construction.
In preference to DT’s Race spokes we specified the lighter Sapim Laser butted spokes that have a greater ‘glint’ factor in the sunlight than the others – plus they’re of a length that is stocked by most bike shops, making crash repairs a relatively painless process.
The thin spokes did give rise to brake rub on steeper climbs, but the small amount of vertical compliance was welcome over poorly surfaced roads and the wheels remained perfectly true during the test period"
If thats not a positive review i dont know what is!
:P 0 -
I completely agree, it is a great review but for a heavy rider (15st) reading that there is brake block rub is not all that encouraging.0
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95kg's is probably a bit too much for the Ambrosio Excellights, you would find them flexy, you should consider the mildly heavier Ambrosio Excellence rims instead - or the IRD Aero 30mm will build up into a nice stiff wheel - http://www.interlocracing.com/rims.html .
FWIW I'm 75kg and ride Ksyrium Elites and I can flex those when out of the saddle.0 -
If its any help this is what wheelsmiths recommeded for me.
" If you go for a low profile rim then the best I have are Ambrosio Excellights. They would need to be 32/32h for your weight and I would suggest you go for a hub with bigger bearings than the Novatecs as the 32/32h Novatecs have different bearings from the 20/24h pairs.
PMP or Royce would be my choice with a combination of Sapim Lasers and ACI spokes.
As you will see this is a similar recommendation to Harry Rowlands - they can both be wrong - can they?0 -
So what do you all reckon, £320 on RS80's or about that and possibly a bit more on hand builds?0
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Don't get caught up in the trees. 36 spoke wheels – box section, socketed rims; double-buutted spokes; reliable hubs, are ideal for you (as everyone else).
All the components listed so far are similar and fine. I favour cup-and-cone bearings, but I'd survive with cartridge. I also favour Mavic rims, simply because I think there's a bit more chance of the same rim being available in a few years when I wear them out from braking.0 -
I am interested to know what the decision is on this......0
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Read that review previously myself as looking for something similar - I think it's more down to the spokes though (although I didn't think sapim lasers were known to be flexy). Did you ask Harry about other spoke options to increase the stiffness? Also if you're going 36-hole on the rear that will add a fair bit of strength to them over the 32-hole version reviewed.0
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I am seeking a similar wheel. My weight is now aroun d 14 and a half stone, but similar cnsiderations.
I read the review of the PMP/Excellight wheel and was concerned and surprised by the brake rub issue. Having re-read the review (a few times), I agree the spoke selection of your wheel builder should sort that out.
Harry R. built me some basic 32 spoke wheels about six years ago, when I was 15 stone or so. I experienced no issues, although I am pretty easy on equipment. The previous wheels were DTRR1.1 rims on Ambrosio Zenith hubs - not exciting but gave no trouble and did the job asked of them.
Different wheel builders may have slightly differing solutions to certain problems, but any of the guys you mention I am sure are more than up to the task of making a robust wheel. I am sure they could build something for a twenty stone guy (or a fully laden touring bike!) successfully. Have the confidence to follow their advice alongside your preferred 'look' (eg hub colour).
Good luck,
David0 -
Well my set of Harry Rowland wheels arrived today. Stuck on the tyres, tubes and cassette and went for a short blast. The wheels are noticably smoother and roll better than the FR7s and the free hub is silent - ahh bliss. They look pretty cool too on my VN Mistral. Roll on sunday afternoon....
Build - Excellight rims, 6700 Ultegra Hubs, Aplina F1 Spokes.0 -
Just in case you are interested i thought i would let you know how i got on with my new Harry Rowland Excellight/Ultegra wheels today.
I had planned for a quick blast as its been showery and windy today. But after just a couple of miles i noticed a significant difference in how the bike was performing. So much smoother and the wheels just wanted to roll and roll. There were a number of times i actually attacked some of the hills i normally dred and i felt so enthusisatic i went 20 miles more than i intended including a go up the zig zag at box hill.
Anyone considering changing wheels to this type of build just go for it as for me this has been a fantastic upgrade for my Mistral. The wheels also look pretty cool considering they dont have much actual bling about them. I dont care if they weigh 1800g or have 32 spokes because for me the upgrade has done what was important for me and that is to make my bike nicer to ride and this will encourage me to ride further and more frequently. Oh and the freehub is silent which is so much nicer than thos clicky fulcrums.
Anyone after a nearly new set of FR 7s???0
