Building a bike up yourself

Nevereverland
Nevereverland Posts: 44
edited May 2011 in Road buying advice
Hi,

I was just wondering, it seems to me that when you add up the weights of all the separate components of a bike, it adds up to a much lower weight than if you buy the bike complete (with similar equipment). Does anyone know why this is? I know that the weights can be inaccurate to within a few percent, but it doesnt really make up for the difference in weights.

For example, I was looking at the following (most component prices taken off ribble for uniformity)

Frame & Fork: Canyon ultimate CF(incl fork, seatpost, headset) (£1159): ~1600g
(980g frame, 290g fork, Seatpost ~200g, Stem 125g)
Handlebars Deda Newton (£53.95): 205g
Headset: Deda (£41.95): ~100g (couldnt find weight)
Saddle: Fizik Arione (£96.6): 225g
Wheelset: Mavic Ksyrium Equipe (£330): 1690g
Tube: ContinentalX2 (£18): 100g
Tyres: Continental X2 (£62): 450g
Groupset: Sram Force (£675): 2097g

Total Price: £2436
Total Weight: 6.42kg

Obviously there are one or 2 extras such as handlebar tape & spacers, but they wont make a huge difference.

This is pretty much the same price as the 9.0SL, but has a lesser groupset & wheelset, yet it weighs 0.5kg less (6.9kg according to canyon site).

Even assuming that every weight mentioned is in reality 5% more, it is still less.

Why is this? Have I missed something?

Thanks

Comments

  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Bottle cage bolts, skewers, brake pads, the chain, cables, headset, seat post clamp, manufactures blind optimism etc. Anything that can be counted as optional for a particular component. If you want to compare like with like, sum up the component weights of the 9.0 SL.

    Incidentally, Campagnolo lists weights for the components in their groupsets in the catalogue. The weights are always lower (eg often by a gram or two!) as you go up the range, even when the only apparent specification difference is the label on the component.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • MrChuck
    MrChuck Posts: 1,663
    The little bits probably add up to more than you'd think- cables and outers, nuts and bolts, seat clamps etc etc. Also your list doesn't include stem and pedals (although your target bike might not have them).

    I reckon if you bought the bike, stripped it down, and put all the odds and sods that aren't on your list in a pile you might be surprised.
  • I think the chain may be included with the groupset, but the cables & seatpost clamp will add a few pounds to the price, although I dont know if they will add much weight.

    I could have included Dura-Ace and ksyrium elite wheels which would have added a few hundred to the cost, and saved maybe 100 or so g. However, I wanted to emphasise/question how I could build a bike up with lesser components, and have it a good deal lighter than one with much more expensive components.

    EDIT: MrChuck I'm only after seeing your msg, and perhaps you're right. it just seems like a pretty big difference
  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 16,533
    typical bar tape will be over 100g
    cables+outers can be 300g easily
    you've got 100g for two tubes, but standard conti race 28 tubes are 100g each
    bottle cage bolts, cable guides/adjusters, grease/assembly paste/etc., rim tape

    ...that's at least 500g extra, then there are...

    marketing practices - i.e. is frame weight quoted for a small frame? if yours is larger it'll be heavier

    and last, but by no means least, manufacturers' strange ideas about their component weights, i'd bet a few quid that those newton bars will be well over 205g (ww lists them around 250g actual)

    tbh wouldn't surprise me if it came out well over 7kg
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • EKIMIKE
    EKIMIKE Posts: 2,232
    Deda claimed weights are a joke. Their components are usually around 30% greater than claimed. In fact most manufacturers 'under-claim' weights. One of the funniest examples is Pinarello Dogma's being sub-1kg whereas in reality they're usually around 1300-1400g. FSA are also pretty heavy compared to claimed. The weights on the Canyon website for fullly built bikes are almost certainly 200-300g under what they are in reality. However their frames generally do deliver on claimed weights.

    My Canyon Ultimate CF (Black/Raw) with Frame, Fork, Headset, Stem, Seatpost, Bottle Cage Bolts, Hanger, Top Cap all came to 1700g. The SLX forks on the 2011 model would take that down by around 50g. If it was a white painted version then add 70-100g.

    People are right about the little things adding up. Paint, Starnuts, Top Cap + Bolt, Rim Tape, Bar Tape and ends, Cables, Brake Pads, Skewers, Pedals, Bottle Cages e.t.c are often forgotten. As is grease and lube (it adds up!). It's actually alot harder to get below 7kg than people seem to think.

    Alot of people assume top end frame plus top end groupset = below 7kg's. In reality you generally need a wheelset below 1400g (real not claimed) to get below 7kg. Otherwise you're looking at aftermarket lightweight items such as cranksets, brakes and skewers.
  • cal_stewart
    cal_stewart Posts: 1,840
    My Canyon came in underweight, plus its got Cosmic SLR boat anchors on it.
    eating parmos since 1981

    Canyon Ultimate CF SLX Aero 09
    Cervelo P5 EPS
    www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40044&t=13038799
  • Well at least that clears that up! Thanks for the help. I may go with a Canyon, although I dont like the idea of it being 200-300g more than advertised weight though. I'll be going for a 54 frame. Now it's just a question of white or black!
  • Stuy-b
    Stuy-b Posts: 248
    EKIMIKE wrote:

    Alot of people assume top end frame plus top end groupset = below 7kg's. In reality you generally need a wheelset below 1400g (real not claimed) to get below 7kg. Otherwise you're looking at aftermarket lightweight items such as cranksets, brakes and skewers.

    sub 7 Kg is easy, my helium weighs in at 6.409 Kg with out even trying. Sub 6 is where it gets hard
  • EKIMIKE
    EKIMIKE Posts: 2,232
    Stuy-b wrote:
    EKIMIKE wrote:

    Alot of people assume top end frame plus top end groupset = below 7kg's. In reality you generally need a wheelset below 1400g (real not claimed) to get below 7kg. Otherwise you're looking at aftermarket lightweight items such as cranksets, brakes and skewers.

    sub 7 Kg is easy, my helium weighs in at 6.409 Kg with out even trying. Sub 6 is where it gets hard

    I'm sure it does. I'd love to see your build list (just out of interest, not interested in willy waving). I would bet the wheels are <1400g (expensive and/or tubs), and at least some WW parts like Skewers and Brakes. I'm not saying it's hard to get under 7kg. It's not, i agree. It just takes £££'s and/or non-standard grouppo parts.

    Building a bike with standard groupsets, standard clincher wheels (such as Ksyrium Elite, Fulcrum R3's) it's actually pretty hard. Probably need a small frame with little in the way of paint.

    There's a lot of BS out there posted by forum people and manufacturers with regards to weight. Alot of dick measuring and/or assumptions, for example:

    http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/p ... -cf-28966/

    Definitely not 6.9kgs. WW's had a whole thread going about it. The wheels, prototypes, would have to be something ridiculous (around 1kg, 80mm!?!) considering all other parts can be (fairly) accurately considered.

    Edit. Here's the topic: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... ert+canyon
  • neeb
    neeb Posts: 4,467
    Building a bike with standard groupsets, standard clincher wheels (such as Ksyrium Elite, Fulcrum R3's) it's actually pretty hard. Probably need a small frame with little in the way of paint.
    Hmm, my Scuro RS is comfortably under 6.8kg with 1550g wheels, and that's including pedals, bottle cages and computer. Groupset is Record throughout. I'm using lightweight skewers, i-link brake cables and one or two ww bolts such as an alloy topcap bolt, but I'm pretty sure it would still be under 7kg (just) even without all that.

    I think what can make the difference is well chosen, high quality but nonetheless standard/functional (i.e. not specifically ww) components, e.g. I have 3T carbon bars and Deda zero servizio corse stem. That sort of stuff costs though, and so tends not to be supplied as standard even on pretty high-end off-the-shelf bikes.
  • Lillywhite
    Lillywhite Posts: 742
    Total Weight: 6.42kg

    Just weigh it on some fish scales to see how it compares with your theoretical calculation. :wink:
  • No need to be like that
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    EKIMIKE wrote:
    I'm sure it does. I'd love to see your build list (just out of interest, not interested in willy waving). I would bet the wheels are <1400g (expensive and/or tubs), and at least some WW parts like Skewers and Brakes. I'm not saying it's hard to get under 7kg. It's not, i agree. It just takes £££'s and/or non-standard grouppo parts.

    Yep! My Looks frame is sub 1kg and the whole bike weighs a little over 7kg. But I came to the conclusion that the only way to get it below 7kg would be carbon rims - possibly tubs. I haven't bothered!
    Faster than a tent.......
  • Lillywhite
    Lillywhite Posts: 742
    No need to be like that
    :roll: