Low maintenance/reliable or light/quick for commuting?

godders1

My commute is increasing significantly later this year (from around 5 to 30+ mile round trip) so I’ll be getting a new bike (with a budget of about £1K).

I’m torn between either a light tourer/audax type bike or something with hub gears. To give you an idea the bikes I have in mind are the Kinesis racelight T2 in the former category and Genesis Day 1 Alfine in the latter (I’d fit some narrower/slicker tyres to the genesis btw).

http://www.kinesisbikes.co.uk/product.php?id=40

http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bikes/cro ... fine/specs

I’m thinking I’d be grateful for the genesis in winter but then be yearning for something zippier when the better weather arrives.

So assuming you could only have one which would you go for and why?

meanredspider

Are there any hills? I just use a Focus Cayo for my 30-mile RT commute come rain or shine. The only thing that puts me on the MTB is ice & snow.

This is typical of my route (though I have lots of route options) which I think includes a bit of everything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnAIFf6ulTo

chrishd883

Light & quick....
You'll be spending a lot of time commuting - you may as well enjoy it!

For winter you'll want full mudguards -
Even if it's the Crud racers, which are good and open up your options!

redvee

I've heard bad reports about fork judder on the Genisis Day One.

sketchley

There better specified bikes for £1k than the Kinesis

Examples

Canyon Racelight 7.0 with Full Ultegra Kit and Mvis Aksium wheels
http://www.canyon.com/_en/roadbikes/bike.html?b=2106

Cube Attempt with full 105 kit and Fulcrum 7 Wheels. Cycling Plus bike 2011 of the year sub £1k
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=57243

You can even go Carbon
http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/CBP ... sram-rival

EKE_38BPM

Depending on how hilly your commute is and how fit you are, how about a bike that is light, quick, low maintenance and reliable? They are called fixed gear bikes.

My fixie is 1kg lighter than my geared road bike
Its quick enough for me, I've got no speedo, but I think I cruise at around 18 mph and can go about 5mph faster if I want/need to.
No gears to fiddle with, so just the cable tension on the brake to worry about and that doesn't take much to keep just right. Lube the chain about once a week or so.
Bikes don't get more reliable than fixies.

Think about it. Tiny handle bars and skinny jeans are not compulsory.

tailwindhome

Sketchley wrote:

Cube Attempt with full 105 kit and Fulcrum 7 Wheels. Cycling Plus bike 2011 of the year sub £1k

A clubmate has just bought one of these and it's a lovely looking machine, the new 105 is a big improvement on the old model, the under tape routing of the cables looks really neat.

I'd get one myself but it doesn't match the club kit, a major oversight on cube's part.

meanredspider

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Depending on how hilly your commute is and how fit you are, how about a bike that is light, quick, low maintenance and reliable? They are called fixed gear bikes.

In the last 4000 miles of commuting (in ALL weathers) the only issue I've had with gears on either my road or MTB is the shifter cable freezing (at below -7C). That hardly makes it unreliable. I can see the attraction of a fixie for tooling around town but, hills or not, even a windy day is going to be doubly miserable for 15 miles in the wrong gear. And, if it is flat, you aren't going to notice that kilo.

EKE_38BPM

meanredspider wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Depending on how hilly your commute is and how fit you are, how about a bike that is light, quick, low maintenance and reliable? They are called fixed gear bikes.

In the last 4000 miles of commuting (in ALL weathers) the only issue I've had with gears on either my road or MTB is the shifter cable freezing (at below -7C). That hardly makes it unreliable. I can see the attraction of a fixie for tooling around town but, hills or not, even a windy day is going to be doubly miserable for 15 miles in the wrong gear. And, if it is flat, you aren't going to notice that kilo.

I never said gears were unreliable, just that not having gears would be even more reliable.
Every gram lost is a bonus. 1000 grammes is 1000 times the bonus. Not a deal breaker, but a (minor) factor.
I don't know if the OP's commute is hilly. I said as much in my post. If its a really hilly commute, riding fixed would be dumb, but maybe its a 15 miles commute across town or on the Utah Salt Flats or in Holland. I don't know and I don't think you do either.

I have no argument about the wind. Maybe use the Specialized Mclaren Venge aero bike frame as a starting point and do a fixie conversion to it?

meanredspider

EKE_38BPM wrote:

I don't know if the OP's commute is hilly. I said as much in my post. If its a really hilly commute, riding fixed would be dumb, but maybe its a 15 miles commute across town or on the Utah Salt Flats or in Holland. I don't know and I don't think you do either.

No I don't but I guess my point is this:

- If it IS hilly then the weight advantage is more than cancelled out by the lack of gears

- If it ISN'T hilly then the weight advantage isn't much of an advantage (unless you are starting and stopping a great deal - then see the "IS hilly" bit above).

My point about the wind was one of gearing rather than aero - in a grind into the wind, it's just as nice to drop a cog as it is in a grind uphill. Equally, on those all-too-rare occasions that you have a blissful tailwind, picking a big gear and blitzing along is great.

I guess my point being, I don't really see a place for a fixie on a 15-mile commute (unless it's flat & still). But let's agree to disagree and let the OP decide.

godders1

Thanks for replies. I have a bit of a drop (and a climb on the way back) to get to/from the cycle path but other than that it's pretty flat (in fact I tried it out yesterday):

http://runkeeper.com/user/Godders1/activity/32576793

But I would like to be able to use the bike for other things and so would definitely want gears. On the same note would also want to have the option to fit a rack (although I use a bagman for the commute) and of course mudguards so that puts most pure road/race bikes out.

I can see the attraction with fixed though, tinkering with gears in the garage after a day at work on a cold winter's evening isn't my idea of fun. That's why hub gears are a serious consideration. Looks like the lighter/quicker option is more popular in this thread though!

sketchley

Re Mudguard on Race bikes. I heard Race Blades talked about a lot. Although not used them myself.

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... des-30859/

Re Rack - Topeak have a range of clip on stuff

http://www.topeak.com/products/Racks/RX ... rameV-Type
&
http://www.topeak.com/products/Bags/RXTrunkBagDXP

Re - Fitting a rack. Do you really need one? I have a rack and panniers on my Hybrid and I'm about to buy a racing bike for the commute. I use Hybrid with a Pannier once a week to take in fresh clothes and bring home old stuff, fortunatly I have a locker but a gym bag under your desk does the same job. The rest of the week I just use pockets on cycling jersey for spare inner tube, tyre levers, arm warmers, multi tool, phone, keys, wallet etc so I travel without a bag or pannier 4 day out of 5. I will not be fitting a rack to my racing bike! I'm sure the same thing could be achieved with good rucksack used once a week.

This being said I think the once I buy my racing bike (likely to be one of three I linked too), I'll have best of both worlds with two bikes, one setup for carry stuff and winter commuting the other for going quickly.

I do think you should look around at a few different bikes though, if spending £1k on a bike I would expect Shimano 105 groupset or better. The Kenesis is only a Tiagra.

meanredspider

Absolutely, I use a racing bike with a Zefal Swan rear mudguard which works perfectly. I use a belt bag for all my crap (keeps it drier than a jersey and no need to swap it each day). And at least once a week I need to go into town when I can swap clothes over so don't need panniers ever. But that's just a thought.

tailwindhome

Godders1 wrote:

On the same note would also want to have the option to fit a rack (although I use a bagman for the commute) and of course mudguards so that puts most pure road/race bikes out.

Giant Defy?

walkingbootweather

It depends....

I'm lucky enough to have a number of bikes including a Rohloff hub geared expedition bike and an audax style titanium framed bike. Though strangely I probably do more commutes on an old steel tourer because it works well with minimal maintenance and I don't worry too much about what it looks like, or where I leave it. The titanium bike is quick and a delight to ride, but I don't like to go out it the rain on it and am a bit obsessive about keeping it clean. The hub gears are great and I can take this bike pretty much anywhere. It's super reliable and quick enough to embarass some so-called racers, but ultimately it wont be as fast or as much fun as an audax style bike for the blast into work.

If I had your commute and £1000 for just one bike I'd get a steel framed, derailleur geared audax or cycle cross bike that could take proper guards and a rack. This would give the most bike and fewest compromises for your money IMHO.

.... but then again I reckon just one bike is never enough

UndercoverElephant

I feel quite qualified to answer here, given my fleet (see below).

The Day One (Snow, below) is a cracking bike for messing about on and I commuted on it during the snow, I've certainly had no problems with fork judder, the only problem I have had is when the freewheel froze at -14 degrees leaving me a little immobilised. I would say that it's a little upright and slow for using for long distances, so I don't unless it's snowy out. Mine's the single-speed one, though, I can't really comment on the Alfine.

My everyday commuter is the Genesis Equilibrium (Rain, below), which is a pretty cracking compromise between speed and comfort. It takes proper 'guards and glides over even the worst roads in East Lothian at speeds which are very close to what I'd get on my sun bike. I built mine up from the frame and forks using mostly the bits from a dead bike so it didn't cost too much either.

shouldbeinbed

Got an Alfine 8 and it is near as dammit maintenence free. I've had it 2 years, done a good few thousand on it and still have never had to adjust it, and it gets well thumbed as my commute is pretty lumpy. If you do go that way for an additional minor weight penalty it might be worth considering a hub dynamo for the lights too then you've got one less thing to worry about falling off, getting nicked, did I remember to replace the the spare batteries etc and will have a bike always ready to jump and go.

My Cannondale is a heavy lump of a bike, sit up and beg and with hubs, racks, guards the lot, but thats what gears are for, I can still go down my big hill at 35+ and ride up it in the saddle with a gear to spare. its slower than my others but like riding an armchair and no tinkering.

MichaelW

I found that my Alfine spun a lot more freely after an oil dip. That is the only thing I have done in almost 4 years of use.
I would be tempted by a belt drive Alfine system, I think it is the way to go for low maintenance and I don't think they have any disadvantages.

You may want to consider a frame that allows you to switch between hub gear and derailleur gear. I think most hub-gear frames allow this (mine does) and you also have the option of singlespeed/fixed gear.

Another good hub-gear road bike to consider is the On-One version.

Confusedboy

I think you need to decide if the £1k is to be spent on one bike for all purposes and seasons. My view is that a 15 mile journey is a bit long for a fixie, and that your budget is a bit low for hub gears, which are a bit heavy. Do you have the option of car/public transport for days when the weather is really nasty? If so, then I would suggest going for the lightest road bike available and seeing how you get on with rucsacks and such. Otherwise, if you need to carry a large amount of stuff and are considering doing it in all weathers, a decent hybrid (perhaps with drop bars) will be your man; slower, heavier, but much more comfortable and safer on wet roads. Another aspect of the 'road v hybrid' debate is the quality of the roads on your commute, as a lightweight thin tyred road bike will not take kindly to poor surfaces, and neither will your spinal column.

I use the Toepeak bar rack and panniers and they are excellent, but heavy, which you might feel a bit on a run which is going to take the best part of an hour. It depends on how much you need to carry. The drawback of a rucksack is that it raises your centre of gravity and makes your back sweat in warm weather, so you may be considering a lighter carrier, in which case a pure road bike is out. The Toapeak setup may still be worth thinking about if it is used once a week on a 'work clothes' run; one of its advantages is that it is very easily attached and detached.

Or you could stretch to two bikes, a pure road machine for speed and something a bit more prosaic for bad weather/load carrying. Beware of this approach, it ends up with a house full of bikes for different types of riding, the 'N+1' syndrome which has beggared many a man on this forum....

But of course you posted in the hope of being advised exactly what to buy by experienced commuters who had made all the mistakes for you. £1k is a lot to spend if you get it wrong, but you won't. A well set up derailleur geared bike is pretty reliable as long as you dribble a bit of lube on the cables once a week, and is in my view the transmission of choice for your purposes. Finally, buy a red bike. Red ones go faster.

EKE_38BPM

I don't know what Confusedboy is confused about, but it ain't bike buying.

Brilliant post. Even the bit about reg bikes being faster.

godders1

Confusedboy wrote:

Finally, buy a red bike. Red ones go faster.

Funny you should say that as I've totally fallen for the Genesis equilibrium 20 following undercoverelephant's post!

Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts (and others who've chimed in since I posted last).

I think I probably misled a bit with the light/quick part of the thread title. I don't want the quickest machine possible, just something a bit more fun and nippy to ride than the likes of the hub geared Genesis (or my current 14kg hybrid for that matter).

The thought of carrying lugage anywhere on my person fills me with dread to be honest. I'm not a big man but I am very much a "sweater". I think regardless of bike choice I'll be sticking with the Super C + QR Bagman combo which will easily accommodate everything I'll need (no personal storage at new workplace so stashing a week's worth of work clothes would be tricky). The desire for potential rack fitting relates more to aspirations of possibly doing some touring in the future but I realise I'm probably asking a bit much of one bike there. Would still like fittings for proper mudguards though.

Other travel options are available but I really want to avoid using them if at all possible.

Surface is all tarmaced cycle path and in pretty good nick so thinnish tyres should be fine (have done the route a few times now and always see stacks of skinny tyred road bikes).

I'm erring towards a steel framed Audax or older style race type bike (that's how you'd describe the equilibrium right? ) and in bad weather I'd probably resort to my current Dawes Hybrid.

UndercoverElephant

Godders1 wrote:

Confusedboy wrote:

Finally, buy a red bike. Red ones go faster.

Funny you should say that as I've totally fallen for the Genesis equilibrium 20 following undercoverelephant's post!

Damn, I should get commission! It is a lovely bike, and yes, you would describe it as an Audax bike. I reckon some light touring would be more than possible on it too. I will ride mine in all but deep snow, that's when the Day One really shines.

Bi50N

@ the OP

If you were considering the Genesis Day 01 Alfine, I would seriously look at the On One Pompetamine Versa Pro. I was torn between the two, eventually went for the latter, as a multi-purpose bike for commuting / light touring. Not regretted my choice one bit.

Fundamentally, it's similar to the Genesis - steel frame, rack / guard mounts, Alfine 8 hub, drop bars with fancy versa shifters and disc brakes, for the same £1k price tag.

The differences that proved decisive - slicks as standard, slightly racier feel, a little lighter, and reports surfaced about an issue with the Day 01's brakes (as reported in this thread).

The On-One is not a slow bike. It does a 12 mile round commute (Wimbledon > Surbiton) 5 times a week with a hefty laptop and change of clothes in its panniers, and just came back from a three day mini-tour from London > Brighton > Arundel and back with a 10kg load. If you can ditch the rack / panniers it is really nippy, but it's fast even with a load. Not having the option to take panniers would be really limiting if you wanted to use the bike for any other purpose other than your commute - which it sounds like you do!

But basically, either the Genesis / On One would be a great bike for your needs IMO, with the One One nudging ahead

iPete

Just buy an alu roadie, fit some racks and start getting those miles in. You can even strip it down at the weekend for some extra speed.

10,000 miles and I'm on my 3rd chain/cassette, 2nd Bottom Bracket, 2nd wheelset & everything else original, not bad going considering my severe lack of maintenance. Not sure one of these 'low maintenance' bikes would be any better?

craker

So what's unreliable about derailleurs? The only failure in five years that I could put down to them is breaking a chain (and not having a chain tool about my person).

What annoys me about gears is them being badly indexed. My winter bike has down tube shifters which work brilliantly all the time. How is it that shifter manufacturers have convinced us that indexed gears are the only system we need?

My advice to the OP, get an alu racer with rack mounts. Then get another one. Redundancy is the best solution for reliability after all.

sketchley

So what's unreliable about derailleurs?

I think it's about winter riding and the odd bit of off road. Derailleurs need a bit more TLC (cleaning) than a hub gear when they get caked in mud and crud etc.

UndercoverElephant

Problem with hub gears is that they have one efficient gear, and the rest are much less efficient than a derrailier. I like to make sure that all my awesome isn't lost, can make all the difference in SCR.

godders1

By "reliable/low maintenance" I don't just mean how often I'll need to replace consumables or broken parts. Nor am I saying that derailer gears are "unreliable" per se.

Even on my current relatively short commute I've ended up having to give the drivetrain a clean every few days in the winter (and even stripping it down a couple of times over the same period) as the chain, cassette, jockey wheels etc get full of gack. Then the gears invariably need to to be tinkered with once it's all back together.

I know there's no such thing as a maintenance free bike but I was just thinking about cutting down on the time spent out in the garage on freezing winter evenings after a long day at work!

Thanks for the heads up on the pompetamine Bi50N. I'm erring towards lighter/quicker but the more I think about it the more 2 bikes seems sensible so I may well be in the market for a hub geared bike come next winter.