QR coming loose after a couple of hours????

Northernsoul Man
Northernsoul Man Posts: 75
edited April 2011 in Workshop
Hi To All, I've just got a Boardman team carbon and I've put my Planet x 50mm carbons on it and for some reason the last 2 rides I've been on the Quick release on the rear wheel comes loose when in the closed position after a couple of hours on the road, the skewers are the ones that come with the wheels - wonder if some thread lock will help or not advisable, any thoughts please or do I need to get some new skewers - never had any problems before on my Cinelli Experience frame, thanks for the use of the site Paul

Comments

  • bexley5200
    bexley5200 Posts: 692
    never had a problem wit that ,after 15 years cycling and mountain biking aprox150000 miles ps do not use treadlock on this
    going downhill slowly
  • Thanks Bex, never had the problem when the wheels were on the cinelli, running the tubs at about 110 - 120, but the skewers are still in the closed position, don't know wether I'd get away with a couple of washers, the skewers are the ones that come with the wheels - I think the washers will do the trick, but not sure about fitting them between the frame and the skewers though. Thanks again Kind Regards Paul.
  • balthazar
    balthazar Posts: 1,565
    I have never known a (properly fixed) QR to loosen, though I used to see plenty of wrongly tightened ones when I worked in a bike shop. Are you absolutely sure you're tightening them the correct way (pushing the cammed lever over-centre, rather that using the lever as a wingnut)? Tyre pressure has no bearing on the matter.

    Also, what is your intention with washers: does the skewer not make proper contact with the frame? Something is missing in my comprehension of this problem. Have you any pictures of the current arrangement?
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    Hi Balthazar, thanks for the reply, I think its tight, I use the lever just to lock the wheel in place and I turn the other side of the skewer to tighten the hub, I always check before a ride, after a couple of hours on the road the rear wheel comes loose, the lever is easy to open and rather dangerous I think. The pics were just taken so a little dark as the light was fading. hope the pics are ok Paul.
  • balthazar
    balthazar Posts: 1,565
    Paul, thanks for the pictures. I think from your description that you're tightening the QR wrongly. The nut (on the right side) is only used to establish the correct setting for the lever (on the left).

    In your last picture, the lever is marked "closed". Pull that lever (straight upwards according to your picture), it will probably say "open". From there, tighten the nut with your hand enough that it's hard to push the lever back to "closed". It should be enough effort that it leaves a mark on your palm. You may need to experiment with how much you tighten the nut.

    It's pushing the lever that holds your wheel on, not tightening the nut. I'm sure there are videos on youtube showing how to do this, but if you're not sure you've done it correctly, ask someone in your LBS to show you.

    EDIT: here's a video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QslgCn9QX5I

    Horrific music. But shows how QR's work.
  • Hi Balthazar, thanks for the link to the video, I've used the wheels for about 8 months on my previous summer bike (my hack bike come commuter now), its a Cinelli alloy experience - and never had a problem with the skewers coming loose - the Boardman came with some Aksiums on it and I was wondering if to use the skewers from the Mavics and try them with the Planet x's.
  • emx
    emx Posts: 164
    I have the same skewers on my model Bs - they are fine. There's got to be something else going on here....
  • balthazar
    balthazar Posts: 1,565
    edited April 2011
    Hi Balthazar, thanks for the link to the video, I've used the wheels for about 8 months on my previous summer bike (my hack bike come commuter now), its a Cinelli alloy experience - and never had a problem with the skewers coming loose - the Boardman came with some Aksiums on it and I was wondering if to use the skewers from the Mavics and try them with the Planet x's.

    It doesn't matter which ones you use. None should loosen. Are you absolutely sure you're tightening the QR's correctly, as shown in the video and described by me? By my understanding, you have been hand-tightening the nut on the right side to secure the wheel. This will leave the bicycle unsafe to ride. I don't mean to lecture you and I may have misunderstood you, but this is important for your safety.
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,675
    External Cam type Qrs are notorious for coming lose.

    make sure they are clean and some lube is not bad also make sure the lever has gone fully "over". this can be looked at by removing the Qr and looking at where it is when fully closed.

    Also the lever should point back to save it having an opening force being applied if it is caught.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • Hi Ya emx, don't know what else to do, its only been a 30 - 40 mile ride, I stop off at my brothers for a little breather and checked the rear, extensive side to side movement from block to block and the QR was still in the closed position - I could open it really easily - quick tighten and away I went - this was Saturday, went a similar route today - the same thing, only averaging about 16 mph with a couple of down hill spurts up to about 65 kph bloody good job it didn't happen then !!!
  • dabber
    dabber Posts: 1,937
    But you still aren't answering balthazar regarding how you are tightening/closing them. Are you doing it the way he describes (correctly) or not?
    “You may think that; I couldn’t possibly comment!”

    Wilier Cento Uno SR/Wilier Mortirolo/Specialized Roubaix Comp/Kona Hei Hei/Calibre Bossnut
  • Hi Ya Guys, thanks for all the comments, when I install the rear wheel, I push it up into the drops and leaving the lever open, I tighten the nut on the opposite side to the lever, until its tight, then tighten the lever by pushing it down until its at the six o'clock position (see pic), I've been riding and using QR for the best part of 10 years now, and never had this problem before - I think I'm going to try the Mavic QR's in, but I've always tightened the skewers in this way and never had any probs in over 10 years - thanks guys Paul.
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,675
    sounds like you are tightening the nut a bit too much. scroll down and have a read
    http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-hel ... adjustment

    Often 6 O'clock is not the whole way for the cam to work. again remove and check how far the lever should move to.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • balthazar
    balthazar Posts: 1,565
    edited April 2011
    Hi Ya Guys, thanks for all the comments, when I install the rear wheel, I push it up into the drops and leaving the lever open, I tighten the nut on the opposite side to the lever, until its tight, then tighten the lever by pushing it down until its at the six o'clock position (see pic), I've been riding and using QR for the best part of 10 years now, and never had this problem before - I think I'm going to try the Mavic QR's in, but I've always tightened the skewers in this way and never had any probs in over 10 years - thanks guys Paul.

    That's relieving: it now sounds like you're attaching the wheel properly. Still, it's hard to judge and I'd really prefer you checked with somebody else - maybe just next time you're in the shop. There's no embarrassment in it, and I've seen people attach wheels wrongly with the rationale "it's worked for years" before.

    By your account, the problem isn't that the lever opens, which discounts the (otherwise very possible) causes that Nick suggests. Rather, the nut loosens. Is that your claim? If so, and you're attaching the wheel correctly, I can't think of anything else and we're back to square one.

    FWIW, I'm no fan of exposed cam QR's for their weaker clamping force, and I'd only choose internal cam steel QR's, like those that come with Shimano and Campag hubs. Still, I'd expect any to work properly, and I've never encountered one that loosened this way.
  • Hi Ya Nick, thanks for the reply, I'll take the QR out tomorrow and check the lever position when fully closed off the bike and place back on the bike re - tension from the opposite side to the lever and close the lever pointing backwards and give it a go - possibly not FULLY closing the lever over the cam - Thanks all guys - I'll let you know how I get on Paul.
  • Hi Ya Balthazar - thanks again - I may not be fully closing the lever over the cam - I'll move the lever to the 9 o'clock position (fully open) and close the lever by moving it back to the 3 o'clock position, then there is a little more leverage to make sure its fully closed, thanks guys take care Paul.
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    Sounds odd to me.

    Do you have safety lips on your front wheel ? Its a bit safer that way anyway.
  • onbike 1939
    onbike 1939 Posts: 708
    cougie wrote:
    Sounds odd to me.

    Do you have safety lips on your front wheel ? Its a bit safer that way anyway.

    By saying this you will go straight to the Great Big Burning Fire..........you know this don't you?
  • Hi Ya Cougie and On Ya Bike!!, yeah the front wheels fine, as I say, the wheels came off my , now , hack bike so they've been well used on the previous bike with no probs. The drop outs on the Boardman frame have which look like metal or alloy inserts to carry the skewers, when fitting the wheel. I'll go out the weekend and try a 2 hour blast after re-tightening with a little more pressure, and see how they go - then if still having problems I'll swap the QR for the ones which came with the bike and take it for another run and see what happens. Thanks All Guys and safe Riding Paul.
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,675
    one thing that cam to me earlier how does the drop out thickness compare between the two frames?
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • Hi Ya Nick, just been out and measured the drop outs, they seem to be the same - 7mm, I've had another fiddle earlier and a post earlier suggests the adjustment on the opposite side to the lever is a little too tight. I've loosened the adjuster a little and re-positioned the lever so that when its in the closed position its pointing towards the rear of the bike (3 o'clock position as looking from the side of the bike) and checked that the lever is FULLY closed against the stop on the cam of the lever - I'll try it the weekend ans see how I get on. I noticed that on the inner face of the adjuster there's a serrated edge that closes on the outermost part of the drop out to "grip" the drop out, which should I think hold the wheel in place relative to the frame - its doin my bloody head in - Thanks Nick and Kind Regards Paul.
  • andrew_s
    andrew_s Posts: 2,511
    The Sheldon article on QR skewers does mention one possibility.
    There have been reports of a particularly nasty failure mode with the external-cam type skewer, related to the radiussed plastic washer under the cam. If the user isn't careful, sometimes this washer can get rotated 90 degrees, so that the cam presses on the points, rather than sitting in the valley of the curved side of the washer. This creates a liklihood that the skewer can rotate in use, so that the cam falls into the "valley." When this happens, the skewer will suddenly open up, possibly causing the wheel to fall out.
  • Nice 1 Andy thanks for the link, have just read and think I might invest in some closed cam skewers to be on the safe side - will be riding this weekend and I'll have to keep an eye on things, Thanks again Andy and Kind Regards Paul
  • Hi To All, thanks very much for all your input, think its sorted now, been on a 55 miler today, tried the QR its fine, I replaced the adjusting nut opposite the lever and re - tensioned the rear wheel and placed the levers at 3 o'clock when fully closed as advised by you clever buggers and its fine, checked it after 2 hours and perfect - Thanks again to all and thanks for the replies - take care all and safe ridin Paul.