Groupset gradual upgrade. Help!
Hello everyone!
Bit of a newbie here!
I bought my first road bike last year (a specialized allez 16) which on the whole I'm pleased with. I have however realised the Shimano 2300 groupset isn't up to much....
Recently the front derailleur seems to have packed in and I don't really want to replace it with another 2300 derailleur. Is it possible to upgrade this broken 2300 derailleur to a tiagra or 105 derailleur while still keeping the same 2300 shifters, chainset etc, or do I have to upgrade the whole groupset at once?
I hope to eventually upgrade the whole groupset to either tiagra or 105 but can't bring myself to pay out the best part of £450 yet!
The spec of my current groupset is as follows:
Chainset - shimano 2300 (double 52 - 39t)
Shifters - shimano 2300
Rear derailier - shimano 2300
Front derailer - shimano 2300
cassette - shimano HG-50 8 speed, 12 25t
Chain - KMC Z51
thanks very much, Ben
Bit of a newbie here!
I bought my first road bike last year (a specialized allez 16) which on the whole I'm pleased with. I have however realised the Shimano 2300 groupset isn't up to much....
Recently the front derailleur seems to have packed in and I don't really want to replace it with another 2300 derailleur. Is it possible to upgrade this broken 2300 derailleur to a tiagra or 105 derailleur while still keeping the same 2300 shifters, chainset etc, or do I have to upgrade the whole groupset at once?
I hope to eventually upgrade the whole groupset to either tiagra or 105 but can't bring myself to pay out the best part of £450 yet!
The spec of my current groupset is as follows:
Chainset - shimano 2300 (double 52 - 39t)
Shifters - shimano 2300
Rear derailier - shimano 2300
Front derailer - shimano 2300
cassette - shimano HG-50 8 speed, 12 25t
Chain - KMC Z51
thanks very much, Ben
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Comments
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In what way is it broken? My 7 year old tourer has Sora 8 speed and it's done 1000s of miles in all weathers with no grumbles.
Now and then you see complete used groupsets on ebay, worth a look. Some of them have very little use, if any.http://www.strathspey.co.uk - Quality Binoculars at a Sensible Price.
Specialized Roubaix SL3 Expert 2012, Cannondale CAAD5,
Marin Mount Vision (1997), Edinburgh Country tourer, 3 cats!0 -
Thanks for your reply. It took a knock while in the car on the way back from my local bike shop bending it slightly. Tried fiddling with it for a couple of hours but it just won't shift properly any more :?0
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changing just the mech wont cause a problem at all, however it works out much cheaper to buy a full group set than it is to buy it bit by bit. if you plan on upgrading the whole group eventually it makes more sense to do it all together.
as said above though, your 2300 might just need setting up or maybe a new cable.
Stuy0 -
I think the problem may be that you're not getting it set up correctly. Could the collar holding it to the frame have been turned a bit maybe?
The issue is that if you can't get this one to shift well then removing it to fit a better one will result in similar setup problems. You'd need to have given it a heck of a whack to damage it.http://www.strathspey.co.uk - Quality Binoculars at a Sensible Price.
Specialized Roubaix SL3 Expert 2012, Cannondale CAAD5,
Marin Mount Vision (1997), Edinburgh Country tourer, 3 cats!0 -
You can replace the front and rear mech independently of shifters etc but you will struggle to upgrade to a 10spd 105 due to the 8spd chain you're currently running. It's a lot wider than a 10 so you may get some chain rub on the front mech when you're on the top or bottom of the rear cassette and it might get very annoying very quickly!
If you don't want to fork out a bunch of money and you're not in a hurry to upgrade it's worth checking the bargain bins for random components. I managed to piece together a full Ultegra groupset for about £350 doing it that way. It took nearly a year to do but you can't argue with the money saved. Front and rear mechs are reasonably cheap and I had no problem changing from 9spd to 10spd but it might be worth talking to somebody who's made the jump from 8 to 10 to see if it'll work0 -
Thanks for the replies everyone.
So is a 8 speed chain itself actually wider that an 10 speed?
Would it be possible to upgrade:
The cassette
Both derailleurs
The shifters
The chain.....
....to 105 while keeping the 2300 double chainset and bottom bracket?
This would save me the cost of buying a 105 chainset at this stage, and I already own a pair of 105 brakes and pedals.
I can already see where this is going :roll:0 -
The 8 speed chain is definitely wider than the 10 but I'm not sure by how much. Might be worth popping to the bike shop and testing a 10 speed chain whip out against your current chainset. If the chain's wide enough to fit over the teeth then you'll have no problems upgrading around it..
You can upgrade the derailleurs and brakes at any time without any compatibility issues, just make sure you do the cassette at the same time as the shifters or the indexing will be out and it won't shift properly.
If the 10spd chain won't fit over your current chainset you could always get a really cheap chainset/BB combo for the interim?0 -
Richa1181 wrote:The 8 speed chain is definitely wider than the 10 but I'm not sure by how much. Might be worth popping to the bike shop and testing a 10 speed chain whip out against your current chainset. If the chain's wide enough to fit over the teeth then you'll have no problems upgrading around it..
You can upgrade the derailleurs and brakes at any time without any compatibility issues, just make sure you do the cassette at the same time as the shifters or the indexing will be out and it won't shift properly.
If the 10spd chain won't fit over your current chainset you could always get a really cheap chainset/BB combo for the interim?
I'm still running a 7-speed chainset with the Tiagra I've got on my Orbea, the shifting's not great, but it's not the end of the world (I rarely use the little ring, naturally). Remember, component manufacturers like to sell you new kit. Sometimes it's worth just giving it a go and seeing if it works.0 -
theres much crap talked about shifters. other than felling nicer most groups change fine. its only a split second and once your in gear its all the same. its just nice to have good equipment really.0
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This is how I upgarded my Ultegra to full D/A and then switched to Red:
Trawl through the internet sites and find the individual bits at the right price and when they arrive just put them in a big box in the garage. When you have collected everything, fit it all at once so its all brand new and sparkly.
This way you won't break the budget and you can also treat yourself to parts you wouldn't normally be able to justify if you've spent squillions - eg Gore Pro cables at nigh on £40 a pop. You can also get things that you wouldn't if you bought it all at once - eg new bar tape to finish off the job properly.
If you don't find the part you are after that day or have missed a particular deal just leave it a week or so - all these things come round in a never ending circle of disounts.
Places like Planet X do really good deals on individual parts, so if you find the part you need at the right price, why stop at 105 and not go upwads to, say, Ultegra or D/A?
Also, sign up for every newsletter you can (eg CRC, PBK, Ribble, Planet X, Evans etc) - they issue discount codes on a regular basis. Remember to also use the smaller retailers as they too have stock to clear at certain times.
In the meantime, just replace the broken shifter with some second hand thing that will do the job for now.0 -
Look, lets cut the crap. I like and used to own a Allez 16, so I know the bike. Don't waste your money on upgrades, just buy a new bike with the groupset you want. It actually works out much cheaper.
Keep your Allez as a winter bike or sell it. 2300 FD are as tough as any Ultregra or DA. If you want to pay 3 times the price for a product that you wont tell the difference from, then that's your choice.
To be honest, an Allez with 105, Ultegra or DA is plain stupid. It really isn't a frame for that groupset. Some will disagree but that's my thought.....remember you'll then need to upgrade the wheelset as well....so you may as well buy a complete new bike!CAAD9
Kona Jake the Snake
Merlin Malt 40 -
Buckled_Rims makes an excellent point. I spent under 200 quid on new 1500g wheels for my Cannondale and it transformed the bike into a real rocketship. Plus it's a great idea to have a winter bike and a "nice" bike for good days.[/quote]http://www.strathspey.co.uk - Quality Binoculars at a Sensible Price.
Specialized Roubaix SL3 Expert 2012, Cannondale CAAD5,
Marin Mount Vision (1997), Edinburgh Country tourer, 3 cats!0 -
Yeh, after thoroughly scouring the internet for new groupset parts I can see buying a new groupset for what is essentially an entry level bike isn't ideal, but at the same time I'm not in the position to buy a second bike.
Hopefully a tiagra or 105 front derailleur will work OK. Although I'm going to have another try sorting out the original derailleur...0 -
I don't see the problem if the guy likes his bike but wants it to run a bit smoother.. Some people (the ones with girlfriends) don't have the option to have a back room full of bikes so if you're limited to just 1 steed it's an ok way to do it. You can always replace the frame at a later date as I did. It's also the best way to learn about building and maintaining a bike I reckon, and if you keep the old parts as you go you can always build it back up as a winter bike afterwards. It may seem like a load of messing round to some but I don't see the problem with having a little project on the go0
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Richa1181 wrote:Some people (the ones with girlfriends) don't have the option to have a back room full of bikes so if you're limited to just 1 steed it's an ok way to do it.
Sorry but that's just an arse comment from you.....so I will skip commenting on it any further.
To the OP, to be honest, I would change the front derailleur to what you already have and spend the least. Save up for a new bike gradually and if you keep cycling, buy one. Keep the Allez as a Winter bike but to be honest, the frame is not worth upgrading to mid-range range components as it will always be the weakest spot.Summer - Dolan Tuono with Sram Force and Dura-Ace 7850 CL Carbon wheels
Winter - old faithful Ribble winter bike
SugarSync cloud storage referral link (better than DropBox atm imho) https://www.sugarsync.com/referral?rf=mzo2tcrhm5gn0 -
Agree that its a bog basic bike, but if he really likes the frame (fit, look, handling, and most of all "feel") and wants to upgrade the components, who's to stop him?
My winter hack/trainer/commuter is a £260 Giant OCR 4 that I bought new about 5 years ago to replace a falling apart 19890s Gitane that was doing the same role. As the stadard bits fell apart I upgraded with the Ultegra off the good bike that was being upgraded to DA.
As I upgraded things like the forks and seat post those went on the OCR as well.
It's a shed but its absolutely lovely to ride (and everyone else who has ridden it has been remarkably surpised at how cool it is).
I agree completely that in the long run I should have just gone and bought a 105 B'man on the R2W scheme for £2.34 a month, but if you have a peculiar fondness for something then go for it - after all its a free world.
But that's just me.0 -
Peter, the girlfriend comment wasn't a dig at anybody. It was a mere reference to the well known grief our other halves give us for having a house full of bikes when the space could be better used for babies. Apologies if you have a hundred bikes and no girlfriend and have taken offence to it but that really wasn't the way it was intended..
As for dismissing the OP's bike as worthless I think that's quite out of order. He came on for some advice on upgrading the bike he likes, not to be told it's scrap! Are we not supposed to be helpful on here?0 -
were just trying to give our thoughts on spending wisely. bide his time and buy something nicer. its cheaper and wont leave him feeling what next to upgrade. im actually saying the bike is good, no need to upgrade it. my sora 8 speed circa 2002 still works good.0
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Hello everyone...another Noobie here. I too have an allez 24 and I upgraded to 105 and it litteraly transformed the bike, 2300, while it works, its not great. I admit that 105 was probably a bit posh for an entry level road bike but i only had to buy it once, and now the 105 is on my new more expensive Ribble sportive and the 2300 is back on the allez which i now use as a winter/hack/Ttrainer bike.
I have a simillar question though... I'm wanting to upgrade the allez to tiagra, i'm not bothered for buying new, but can i get away with not upgrading the 8 speed chainset ? reason why is that i simply dont like the 2300 shifters and tiagra feel and work like the 105's but will the 8 speed chainset work with a nine speed block/chain ?0 -
pawlo - I had a similar chainset / front mech conundrum when considering going from 9 to 10 speed, Advice on the forum here indicated it wouldn't be a problem but being a cautious type I first bought a 10 speed chain and put it on my 9 speed transmission to test that it would shift up and down the chainset correctly. It did so I took the leap of faith and bought the shifters and cassette to match.
You might try doing this with the 9 speed chain, or even see if you can 'borrow' someone elses chain to try it out.0 -
jomoj wrote:pawlo - I had a similar chainset / front mech conundrum when considering going from 9 to 10 speed, Advice on the forum here indicated it wouldn't be a problem but being a cautious type I first bought a 10 speed chain and put it on my 9 speed transmission to test that it would shift up and down the chainset correctly. It did so I took the leap of faith and bought the shifters and cassette to match.
You might try doing this with the 9 speed chain, or even see if you can 'borrow' someone elses chain to try it out.
Well for what a 9speed chain costs i would just get one any way, i'm generally just trying to keep the cost of this down. Thanks for your advice tho. will probably see how it goes with just the brifters & cassette.0 -
Ben - for what it's worth, because I know how compelling a shiny new groupset can be, the best way you can upgrade your bike and notice the difference is to replace the wheels and tyres. Logic doesn't always come into it with these things though - I've blown away a small fortune on pointless bling over the years 8)0