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De rosa R838 Veloce or Cube Agree GT race

christkchristk Posts: 122
edited July 2013 in Road buying advice
Having read several reviews on the Cube Agree I was planning on buying one in the coming months. However, today I seen a De Rosa 838 and perhaps the sales guy done a very good job on me as regards to frame quality? I know the spec on the Cube is very good but at the end of the day I've always been told that it's the frame that counts and to be honest thats what I've learnt to my great expense. Advise and reviews would be really helpfull please.
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  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 1,021
    The derosa 838 frame is the same frame as the rubble stealth and one of the Chinese frames. The derosa branded frame is about double the price of the rubble frame. Check that out.
  • inseineinseine Posts: 5,786
    I think you'll find that it's RIBBLE. There's been lots of talk about this. Pretty much all frames are far eastern fwiw, doesn't make them bad, just that the Ribble is better value not that the deRosa is worse than the Cube.
  • leeroy72leeroy72 Posts: 330
    Cube bikes are very good quality - i would go and ride both bikes so you know for certain.
    Find your limits...and then exceed them frequently
  • christkchristk Posts: 122
    It always amazes me the knowledge that's out there! Thanks for the great advise so far.
  • Monty DogMonty Dog Posts: 20,614
    The DeRosa R838 is made by Xpace industrial in China, also sold as a Ribble Stealth. My mate has just built-up an R838 frame with Force/Red and it came out at 6.8kg - he likes the ride, neutral handling with no glitches - buy the same frame from ebay from £330, £600 from Ribble or £1000+ from DeRosa.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • nochekmatenochekmate Posts: 3,460
    ^^^^^ Gotta be the De Rosa then.:lol:

    Clearly the guy in the shop does not read this forum or he'd have known it's the same as the Ribble. Or maybe he does read the forum and is just pushing for the greatest sale price.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 1,021
    inseine wrote:
    I think you'll find that it's RIBBLE.

    Hahaha! The iPhone spelling autocorrect is a funny beast! Maybe it knows something :lol:

    Thanks Monty, that sums it up. I couldn't be bothered typing loads on a small screen.

    In summary, direct from china via eBay, but risks of import duty & vat getting added to £330, which if added, wipes out much of the saving over ribble stealth.
    Ribble offers buyer uk buying protection & problem fixing.
    Derosa looks really nice, but way overpriced against alternatives.

    Really the choice fir me would be between eBay 838 or ribble stealth.
  • robz400robz400 Posts: 160
    The paintjob on the De Rosa is amazing though..... Personally I'd be tempted to spend the extra and have the bike i'd fall in love with rather than the bargin......
  • petemadocpetemadoc Posts: 2,667
    robz400 wrote:
    The paintjob on the De Rosa is amazing though..... Personally I'd be tempted to spend the extra and have the bike i'd fall in love with rather than the bargin......

    That's one expensive paint job. If you did a bit of research you could probably get a custom paint job done and make it really personal. Better than spending 1k on some de Rosa stickers.
  • Monty DogMonty Dog Posts: 20,614
    £330 landed cost for R838 - no vat and duty added - worst case scenario is another £100 - still £200 less than Ribble. Plenty of people will do you a DeRosa paintjob for £300
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • EKIMIKEEKIMIKE Posts: 2,232
    I have to laugh - for all this about the De Rosa... The Cube is only an FM015 with a nice paint job. You can get a bare one from China for £350 or so. As said, it doesn't make them bad bikes.
  • "Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side".

    +1 Monty Dog... my sentiments on the subject, exactly.

    OP - Ask yourself if you want to own a Ferrari or a Lexus... if you really can't decide which one makes your HEART miss a beat, then go with your HEAD and buy the Cube or Ribble or whatever is cheapest.
    I'm at that difficult age... somewhere between birth and death.
  • Ribble seem like they do the same frame, but the carbon is not the same!
    picked up a de rosa R383 this weekend put about a 100 miles on it!

    can't say a bad word about it! my summer bike is a cervelo R3sl
    but i think the de rosa looks better!

    wanted something 2 take out when not sure about the weather! kept up with my 2 mate's on 4K plus bikes! the de rosa hits corners like its on rails! unlike my old bmc racemaster! campag works ace, and took a crater of a pot hole and shook it off no prob's!

    and if u have the cash 2 upgradge Athena i'd not bother for one more gear!
    instead put some reynolds Assault wheels on there!
  • EKIMIKEEKIMIKE Posts: 2,232
    Incredible first post!

    How do you know the carbon is different!

    It's really surprising that 4k bikes don't make you any faster!

    Even more surprising that your De Rosa was the reason that you kept up with your mates on 4k bikes!

    I'm super! amazed! that it took a crater of a pothole! I'm sure that's something to do with the special De Rosa pothole technology!

    Seriously, it's just a bike. Regardless of the quality of the carbon, De Rosa are making a killing out of you. The expensive part of carbon frame manufacturing is the tooling/mould. Generic mould = little cost. De Rosa prices = HUGE mark-up.

    I'm not saying don't buy one, but equally don't try and make out it's remarkably better than the Ribble offering. It's not.
  • graememacdgraememacd Posts: 386
    I have the chinese matt black carbon version of the R838 and I am more than happy with it. It rides land looks great and i really cant see why anyone would pay the extra for the De Rosa
  • dabberdabber Posts: 1,869
    So, if all these frames are the same, who actually designed it. The Chinese? What was the value add of De Rosa, Ribble other than, painting it putting the compenents together and marketing it.

    I presume the same applies to other frames?
    “You may think that; I couldn’t possibly comment!”

    Wilier Cento Uno SR/Wilier Mortirolo/Specialized Roubaix Comp/Kona Hei Hei/Calibre Bossnut
  • magliacelestemagliaceleste Posts: 748
    edited March 2011
    Nothing. It's brilliant.

    Bike brands have really shot themselves in both feet. Once they stopped actually making the bikes themselves and outsourcing the manufacturing (and probably the design of many of the lower end models) they gave away the only thing that was worth a premium. Now by painting the frame and sticking their logos on it, they often expect you to pay a premium over £1000+. To be fair Ribble don't exactly add that much by the time you've removed all the import aggro and the fact they need to advertise and hold stock. It's DeRosa who seem to be having a laugh.

    IMO The only bikes that should be charging a premium are the ones that are actually designed and actually made in the country they claim, e.g. Top end Colnago, Viner, Time OR have some element of clever design or technology e.g. Look, etc.

    Why pay more for a pretend Italian bike when you can get the *same* bike for a fraction of the cost and paint it the same if you want?
  • petemadocpetemadoc Posts: 2,667
    Nothing. It's brilliant.

    Bike brands have really shot themselves in both feet. Once they stopped actually making the bikes themselves and outsourcing the manufacturing (and probably the design of many of the lower end models) they gave away the only thing that was worth a premium. Now by painting the frame and sticking their logos on it, they expect you to pay a premium over £1000+. To be fair Ribble don't exactly add that much by the time you've removed all the import aggro and the fact they need to advertise and hold stock. It's DeRosa who seem to be having a laugh.

    IMO The only bikes that should be charging a premium are the ones that are actually designed and actually made in the country they claim, e.g. Top end Colnago, Viner, Time OR have some element of clever design or technology e.g. Look, etc.

    Why pay more for a pretend Italian bike when you can get the *same* bike for a fraction of the cost and paint it the same if you want?

    ^ What he said ^

    Enjoy your overpriced De Rosa with it's "different" carbon
  • wickedwicked Posts: 844
    PeteMadoc wrote:
    Nothing. It's brilliant.

    Bike brands have really shot themselves in both feet. Once they stopped actually making the bikes themselves and outsourcing the manufacturing (and probably the design of many of the lower end models) they gave away the only thing that was worth a premium. Now by painting the frame and sticking their logos on it, they expect you to pay a premium over £1000+. To be fair Ribble don't exactly add that much by the time you've removed all the import aggro and the fact they need to advertise and hold stock. It's DeRosa who seem to be having a laugh.

    IMO The only bikes that should be charging a premium are the ones that are actually designed and actually made in the country they claim, e.g. Top end Colnago, Viner, Time OR have some element of clever design or technology e.g. Look, etc.

    Why pay more for a pretend Italian bike when you can get the *same* bike for a fraction of the cost and paint it the same if you want?

    ^ What he said ^

    Enjoy your overpriced De Rosa with it's "different" carbon

    I was under the impression that its not even really a De Rosa? As a UK only model it must have been all done through the UK importer (i-ride) so there is nothing "De Rosa" about it?
    If so the blatant mark up is even more galling! (I do like the paint though!)
    It’s the most beautiful sport in the world but it’s governed by ***ts who have turned it into a crock of ****.
  • petemadocpetemadoc Posts: 2,667
    wicked wrote:
    PeteMadoc wrote:
    Nothing. It's brilliant.

    Bike brands have really shot themselves in both feet. Once they stopped actually making the bikes themselves and outsourcing the manufacturing (and probably the design of many of the lower end models) they gave away the only thing that was worth a premium. Now by painting the frame and sticking their logos on it, they expect you to pay a premium over £1000+. To be fair Ribble don't exactly add that much by the time you've removed all the import aggro and the fact they need to advertise and hold stock. It's DeRosa who seem to be having a laugh.

    IMO The only bikes that should be charging a premium are the ones that are actually designed and actually made in the country they claim, e.g. Top end Colnago, Viner, Time OR have some element of clever design or technology e.g. Look, etc.

    Why pay more for a pretend Italian bike when you can get the *same* bike for a fraction of the cost and paint it the same if you want?

    ^ What he said ^

    Enjoy your overpriced De Rosa with it's "different" carbon

    I was under the impression that its not even really a De Rosa? As a UK only model it must have been all done through the UK importer (i-ride) so there is nothing "De Rosa" about it?
    If so the blatant mark up is even more galling! (I do like the paint though!)

    The De Rosa 838 is the same frame as the ribble stealth, Pedal Force RS3 and the ebay carbonzone special (can't remember what they call it)

    The only difference is the paint job and components. The De Rosa is so expensive because it's an Italian firm (they make a cut), imported by a British distributor (i-ride, they make a cut too) and then sold to the general public through a retailer (they make a cut too). It's an inefficient distribution chain with too many companies making money along the way.
  • Wheelie BinWheelie Bin Posts: 162
    robz400 wrote:
    The paintjob on the De Rosa is amazing though..... Personally I'd be tempted to spend the extra and have the bike i'd fall in love with rather than the bargin......

    I agree. Ribble doesn't exactly get my heart racing... or Cube for that matter.
    I'm at that difficult age... somewhere between birth and death.
  • The De Rosa R838, Ribble Stealth and RB004 (the eBay version) are not the same frame.

    The De Rosa is made from a Mizuno High Modulus carbon, the Ribble from Toray T800 and the RB004 from unspecified T700. There are other small differences such as the absence of a mech hanger on the Ribble and RB004.

    I bought and assembled an RB004 from Carbonzone and am delighted with it. Including cages and pedals it weighs bang on 6.8kg (SRAM Force, Shimano 6700 wheels, FSA/Specialized finishing kit).
  • JesseDJesseD Posts: 1,961
    By the RB004 do you mean the Xpace FM=R838?
    Obsessed is a word used by the lazy to describe the dedicated!
  • jonomc4jonomc4 Posts: 891
    edited May 2012
    hmmm OK I must be a muppet - I just bought the DeRosa R838 frame (but not the seat post).

    I got it cheaper (ex display) - So I get the nice paint job and less price premium - I have always been a Sram / Mavic fan and any bike I get is going to have to have my SMP Stratos saddle as my tackle doesn't really like many other saddles (well no other currently to be honest) So I didn't want the standard set-up.

    I think I am at least honest with myself - buying a bike is half head (does it work) and half heart - does it give me goose bumps - without both it just isn't worth spending your hard earned money on. To have a pint of beer with a good looking woman is far more enjoyable than with some moocher - same beer but it just tastes that bit better.
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    jonomc4 wrote:
    To have a pint of beer with a good looking woman is far more enjoyable than with some moocher - same beer but it just tastes that bit better.

    Ahh, but the De Rosa woman is just the same as the Ribble woman or Ebay China import woman - only with a load of make-up trowelled on :lol:
    Faster than a tent.......
  • moonshines right its rubble!! i have a ribble winter bike & its a load of rubble i also have a de rosa. give me a de rosa any time over a rubble, its like buying a lada & thinking its r/r no comparison.
  • skleinsskleins Posts: 103
    Its NOT the same frame you ignorant misguideed f**kwits!! :roll:

    You could make it out of paper mache and it would look the same, its different materials used that dictate the price difference!
  • Get the Cube. Ive got one and the frame is great. The bike is the nuts all round.
  • mallottmallott Posts: 31
    I did a direct comparison between the stealth and an 838 a while ago, the chainstays are very different, so no it is not the same frame, similar front end though. It just looks like the mould has been ripped off in part.
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    mallott wrote:
    I did a direct comparison between the stealth and an 838 a while ago, the chainstays are very different, so no it is not the same frame, similar front end though. It just looks like the mould has been ripped off in part.

    Don't forget that this zombie thread that the very angry slkiens dredged up from the dead is two and a half years old so its entirely likely that both the De Rosa and Ribble frames have evolved since then.
    Faster than a tent.......
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