Towpaths and Joggers

flatneasy

This one's probably been done to death before, but can you get some sort of hooter or interference device to make yourself heard when coming up behind a jogger.

Only quite a few of them are 'plugged in' and never look around as they jog along the towpaths, which actually starts off being irritating and then sends you mmmmmmmad ringing your bell and shouting.

So some sort of high pitched police / ambulance whiny gismo would be great, if legal of course, or a mini compressed air horn.

Lancslad

I believe an airzorn is the dogs nuts for that kind of thing.

redvee

Pushing them into the river/canal gets their attention too

dilemna

Errr ......... if they are running, presumably they are doing 8-10mph maybe more. Why do you feel the need to cycle so fast on the path if only to gain a few miles an hour over the runners?

Seems like Mr Toad just got himself a bicycle ................

Slow down, learn some manners, be more courteous to others when on your bike. The hatred directed toward cyclists is bad enough without you adding fuel to the fire by being an uncooth yobo toward young joggers or old ladies walking their dogs along a canal path.

A few courteous tingings of your bell will be met with people patiently standing aside to allow you to pass giving you the opportunity to give thanks.

pastryboy

There is usually plenty of room for a cyclist to pass a jogger. The problem is some joggers/walkers decide to plant themselves in the middle of the path or zig-zag across it and are often 'plugged in' so don't hear a bell or an 'excuse me'.

Everyone can be courteous and avoid problems by just keeping to the left.

Drysuitdiver

dilemna wrote:

Errr ......... if they are running, presumably they are doing 8-10mph maybe more. Why do you feel the need to cycle so fast on the path if only to gain a few miles an hour over the runners?

Seems like Mr Toad just got himself a bicycle ................

Slow down, learn some manners, be more courteous to others when on your bike. The hatred directed toward cyclists is bad enough without you adding fuel to the fire by being an uncooth yobo toward young joggers or old ladies walking their dogs along a canal path.

A few courteous tingings of your bell will be met with people patiently standing aside to allow you to pass giving you the opportunity to give thanks.

quite correct.

British waterways allows cycling on towpaths on the proviso that you follow a code of conduct.
http://www.waterscape.com/things-to-do/cycling/permit

jeremyrundle

flatneasy wrote:

This one's probably been done to death before, but can you get some sort of hooter or interference device to make yourself heard when coming up behind a jogger.

Only quite a few of them are 'plugged in' and never look around as they jog along the towpaths, which actually starts off being irritating and then sends you mmmmmmmad ringing your bell and shouting.

So some sort of high pitched police / ambulance whiny gismo would be great, if legal of course, or a mini compressed air horn.

This old one a g a i n........ :?

Just kidding

Air Zound, I have fitted two to each bike, 260Db :twisted:

But remember they have as much right to be there as you, my airzounds are reserved for women drivers and morons stepping off pavements without looking (also scares dogs who walk infront of you)

Blue Meanie

2x 130Db doesn't equal 260Db

I prefer the sound of a locked wheel to attract ped's attention, but I defer on shared use paths.

wgwarburton

Hi,
Towpaths don't make great commuting routes:

Key excerpts from the BW Code of Conduct:

Pedestrians have priority over cyclists on the towpath. The towpath is never suitable for cycling fast as there are many other users, low bridges and narrow sections. If you are in a hurry, use an alternative route.

Cheers,
W.

The Rookie

Which makes a mockery of my local NSR as it's along a towpath......

I agree though, it's shared use and we should treat them with courtesy, and not expect to cycle fast along it.

Simon

millimole

WGWarburton wrote:

Hi,
Towpaths don't make great commuting routes:

Key excerpts from the BW Code of Conduct:

Pedestrians have priority over cyclists on the towpath. The towpath is never suitable for cycling fast as there are many other users, low bridges and narrow sections. If you are in a hurry, use an alternative route.

Cheers,
W.

Absolutely. To be pedantic most towpaths are not public rights of way and for (again read carefully) *most* towpaths you should have the free British Waterways permit that allows you as a cyclist use them. Therefore pedestrians (even joggers - miserable b*ggers most of 'em) have more right than a cyclist to be there.
In reality I've only ever been asked once to see my BW permit in the (perhaps) 25 years since they became free,and that was very odd set of circumstances, and I'm not sure that many BW employees would know that level of minutiae of detail.
Towpaths are best for a gentle pootle, not for making good progress - too many hazards and distractions.

millimole

WGWarburton wrote:

Hi,
Towpaths don't make great commuting routes:

Key excerpts from the BW Code of Conduct:

Pedestrians have priority over cyclists on the towpath. The towpath is never suitable for cycling fast as there are many other users, low bridges and narrow sections. If you are in a hurry, use an alternative route.

Cheers,
W.

Absolutely. To be pedantic most towpaths are not public rights of way and for (again read carefully) *most* towpaths you should have the free British Waterways permit that allows you as a cyclist use them. Therefore pedestrians (even joggers - miserable b*ggers most of 'em) have more right than a cyclist to be there.
In reality I've only ever been asked once to see my BW permit in the (perhaps) 25 years since they became free,and that was very odd set of circumstances, and I'm not sure that many BW employees would know that level of minutiae of detail.
Towpaths are best for a gentle pootle, not for making good progress - too many hazards and distractions.

The Rookie

To add, 2x130db will be at most 133db (its a logarithmic scale so adding 3 doubles the value) in reality probably 132db ish.

Simon

flatneasy

Perhaps I should just clarify, so this doesn't get into an 'us and them' debate. Its about a particular sort of jogger.

I probably shouldn't have mentioned the hooter and also shouldn't have mentioned that it made me mad not to be able to get past. Not very British. So in retrospect, it made me consider calmly the pros and cons of cycling along towpaths, so I decided to sit down, take it easy, have a drink, watch the ducks, chat to the old lady sat on the bench about the war.

By then the 5mph jogger had got a mile ahead, so cycling was enjoyable again. Unfortunately I was late for the presentation and almost got fired.

I am not some maniac biker out to give cyclists a bad name. We go out on the canals lots with my whole family and its always courteous, we say hello to people (not heads down unsociable cyclists who fly past people in a dangerous way).

So if you want me to be absolutely precise: The problem is specifically with slow joggers, who are plugged in and never check behind them. I would easily jog past them on my jogs (so what would I do then ?).

Perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned the hooter idea, although what the practical solution to this problem is, I have no idea.

They may well have the right of way and they could turn round and say "sod off, I've got the right of way". But of course that's not really using rights in the way thats intended is it ? Sorry if my post has caused 'issues' for some folks.

Next question is: what do I do about the idiot MTB Dad who comes down the pavement at 10mph with his kid balanced on the crossbar on the way to school ?

I've put a big sticker on the computer now to remind me never to ask a question about h... .ts

flatneasy

dilemna wrote:

Seems like Mr Toad just got himself a bicycle ................

Slow down, learn some manners, be more courteous to others when on your bike. The hatred directed toward cyclists is bad enough without you adding fuel to the fire by being an uncooth yobo toward young joggers or old ladies walking their dogs along a canal path.

A few courteous tingings of your bell will be met with people patiently standing aside to allow you to pass giving you the opportunity to give thanks.

*********************
Erm, how do I say this politely ... I think you'll find on reflection that you've made some incorrect assumptions about me there.

jeremyrundle

The Beginner wrote:

To add, 2x130db will be at most 133db (its a logarithmic scale so adding 3 doubles the value) in reality probably 132db ish.

Simon

You need to get out more :roll:

jeremyrundle

flatneasy wrote:

dilemna wrote:

Seems like Mr Toad just got himself a bicycle ................

Slow down, learn some manners, be more courteous to others when on your bike. The hatred directed toward cyclists is bad enough without you adding fuel to the fire by being an uncooth yobo toward young joggers or old ladies walking their dogs along a canal path.

A few courteous tingings of your bell will be met with people patiently standing aside to allow you to pass giving you the opportunity to give thanks.

*********************
Erm, how do I say this politely ... I think you'll find on reflection that you've made some incorrect assumptions about me there.

I also agree it appears that flatneasy assumes all cyclists are pigs and all peds are angels, a lot of peds are ignorant and believe they are the only ones allowed anywhere.

flatneasy

Not me, I was quoting dilemna !
All this quoting people who quoted someone else business is confusing - you end up agreeing with people you intended to disagree with.

I won't be saying what I think anymore

Headhuunter

Drysuitdiver wrote:

dilemna wrote:

Errr ......... if they are running, presumably they are doing 8-10mph maybe more. Why do you feel the need to cycle so fast on the path if only to gain a few miles an hour over the runners?

Seems like Mr Toad just got himself a bicycle ................

Slow down, learn some manners, be more courteous to others when on your bike. The hatred directed toward cyclists is bad enough without you adding fuel to the fire by being an uncooth yobo toward young joggers or old ladies walking their dogs along a canal path.

A few courteous tingings of your bell will be met with people patiently standing aside to allow you to pass giving you the opportunity to give thanks.

quite correct.

British waterways allows cycling on towpaths on the proviso that you follow a code of conduct.
http://www.waterscape.com/things-to-do/cycling/permit

I used to walk along the canal towpath in Islington to get to work (before I moved and started cycling in) and bloody cyclists were the bane of my existence. It clearly said at the entrance to towpaths that peds had priority and that cyclists should go at (I think) no more than 4mph (which is a bit of a joke I must admit). Yet everyday I was almost shoved into the canal by some speeding biker. If you're late and you want to bike at 15-20mph+ then get onto the roads! If you want to enjoy the towpath and take your time then ride slowly! It seems obvious. I had cyclists yell at me to get outa their way, smack me with their rucksacks as they went past etc etc. They basically treated peds as motorists sometimes treat cyclists on the road.

Every now and then British Waterways would have people at the entrance points to the towpath advising cyclists that they need to slow down.

Drysuitdiver

the best bit of my commute is the towpath bit. coming into work its great in the morning mist ( when we get mist) or just seeing the swans serenley gliding by on the water.

going home its a relaxing section i can enjoy watching all the birdlife doing what they do.

flatneasy

If I was on a horse would I have right of way ? and what if it galloped ?

Obviously, there's no problem with sensible courteous cyclists and sensible courteous joggers. But not all cyclists are and not all joggers are.

Also no problem (except if you crash) going whatever speed on a towpath if you can see ahead well. Unless you count frictional wear on the path with increased speed. I race a train on a straight bit now and again, but if I see a walker, I'm down to 5mph before I'm even close to them.

I like to think that a cheery 'morning' and the courtesy at least compensates a bit for the mad brigade who fly past people.

7-8 mph isn't exactly roadrunner speed and a jogger at 5mph who is plugged in is a practical obstacle. Noone is denying their right to be there, but they are just as bad as the mad cyclists, rights or no rights. If you want to do 3mph on a bike for half a day, that's your perogative of course.

By the way, is there an etiquette for which side you cycle on if you meet a cyclist coming the other way ? I'd hate to break some unwritten rule and be an outcast. Or do you just dismount and do a few minutes of the 'how nice to see you Mr. Cholmondley Warner's.'

I despair of this country sometimes - we should export our services overseas on pen-pushing, making rules, making checklists to check the rules have been met, checking whether the people who are supposed to follow the rules have filled in the sheets to say that they have - that's what we're good at, never mind banking.

While I'm at it... how come in a democracy, a minority can object to something (it only takes a few objecters) and stop a majority from enjoying something that temporarily affects the minority ?

Headhuunter

flatneasy wrote:

If I was on a horse would I have right of way ? and what if it galloped ?

Obviously, there's no problem with sensible courteous cyclists and sensible courteous joggers. But not all cyclists are and not all joggers are.

Also no problem (except if you crash) going whatever speed on a towpath if you can see ahead well. Unless you count frictional wear on the path with increased speed. I race a train on a straight bit now and again, but if I see a walker, I'm down to 5mph before I'm even close to them.

I like to think that a cheery 'morning' and the courtesy at least compensates a bit for the mad brigade who fly past people.

7-8 mph isn't exactly roadrunner speed and a jogger at 5mph who is plugged in is a practical obstacle. Noone is denying their right to be there, but they are just as bad as the mad cyclists, rights or no rights. If you want to do 3mph on a bike for half a day, that's your perogative of course.

By the way, is there an etiquette for which side you cycle on if you meet a cyclist coming the other way ? I'd hate to break some unwritten rule and be an outcast. Or do you just dismount and do a few minutes of the 'how nice to see you Mr. Cholmondley Warner's.'

I despair of this country sometimes - we should export our services overseas on pen-pushing, making rules, making checklists to check the rules have been met, checking whether the people who are supposed to follow the rules have filled in the sheets to say that they have - that's what we're good at, never mind banking.

While I'm at it... how come in a democracy, a minority can object to something (it only takes a few objecters) and stop a majority from enjoying something that temporarily affects the minority ?

No! I don't believe you would have priority on a galloping horse! If the signs on the towpath in Islington were anythnig to go by, the path is "shared" however peds have priority and other traffic should move at 4mph (or something along those lines).

I think you just need to use your common sense, mate - it's not about getting an airzorn and blasting people out of the way, if that's what you want, get on the road with all the other traffic! On a towpath you are the largest, potentially fastest and most dangerous piece of traffic, just as on the road cars and lorries are and they are expected to take care around cyclists and peds

wgwarburton

flatneasy wrote:

If I was on a horse would I have right of way ? and what if it galloped?

If I may refer you to the department of the bleeding obvious... have you considered where the "Tow" bit of the towpath comes from?

As a general rule, horses have absolute priority on towpaths, since that's what they were built for. Your galloping bit is tricky- it's hard to gallop when dragging a 20-ton boat behind you... :-)

In my view the technicalities would probably be academic in this situation- If I were faced with half a ton or more of horse galloping along a towpath I would absolutely and urgently grant it right of way...

Cheers,
W.

PS The above content is intended to amuse, not offend. If the former isn't achieved, please allow for the latter.

Peyote

If I may refer you to the department of the bleeding obvious... have you considered where the "Tow" bit of the towpath comes from?

As a general rule, horses have absolute priority on towpaths, since that's what they were built for.

I always thought this way too. However, I was chatting to someone about this recently (I forget who, but they had a background in transport of one form or another). Apparently riding a horse on a towpath is frowned upon, if not actually illegal (in the same way apowered vehicle is). A horse towing a barge is/was never ridden it was led and generally maintained pedestrian walking speed, rather than anything approaching the speed a horse could normally walk at when ridden, let alone canter or gallop.

Having said that, I'd agree and common sense suggests that a horse towing a barge should have priority over any other traffic on the towpath.

flatneasy

Yes, that's why I asked the question about the horse, which was of course only semi-serious, but is actually quite interesting. I certainly wouldn't want to meet a horse on a bike in that confined space. Apparently horses don't see you as human if you're on a bike, so some of them freak out.

flatneasy

Headhuunter wrote:

I think you just need to use your common sense, mate - it's not about getting an airzorn and blasting people out of the way, if that's what you want, get on the road with all the other traffic! On a towpath you are the largest, potentially fastest and most dangerous piece of traffic, just as on the road cars and lorries are and they are expected to take care around cyclists and peds

Yes, I think I've got that bit, but for the umpteenth time, I don't want to knock anyone out of the way, I just want to make reasonable progress down a path.

OK, so back to the original problem... what's your suggestion ?

Short of trundling along behind a slow jogger, dinging my gentlemanly bell and shouting at a moderate volume 'could you please let me past ?' until in desperation finding the next towpath exit and then finding the second half of the journey by road.

Headhuunter

flatneasy wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

I think you just need to use your common sense, mate - it's not about getting an airzorn and blasting people out of the way, if that's what you want, get on the road with all the other traffic! On a towpath you are the largest, potentially fastest and most dangerous piece of traffic, just as on the road cars and lorries are and they are expected to take care around cyclists and peds

Yes, I think I've got that bit, but for the umpteenth time, I don't want to knock anyone out of the way, I just want to make reasonable progress down a path.

OK, so back to the original problem... what's your suggestion ?

Short of trundling along behind a slow jogger, dinging my gentlemanly bell and shouting at a moderate volume 'could you please let me past ?' until in desperation finding the next towpath exit and then finding the second half of the journey by road.

I think your options are as you have outlined them! Either resign yourself to being stuck behind joggers and peds and ringing your bell to alert them to your presence or getting off the towpath and bombing along the roads to your hearts content....

beverick

I actually find squeaky brakes to be quite useful for warn people of your approach!

Failing that, I give them a blast on the 'thunderer' whistle to let them know I'm there. A short blast from 150-200 yards is usually all that's needed and from that distance it's neither aggressive or frightening.

I do tend to agree that canal side paths and tow paths (and there is a difference) are generally more suited for 'pootling'. OK, I've hit 30mph on the one near us but it's the exception. I'm usually more likely to be doing 10-15 mph max.

Regarding horses, and animals in general, in my view they are usually far more aware of their surroundings than their human cohorts. I assume it's because horses are basically prey and will usually react to someone cycling up behind them by either trying to turn around to defend themselves or they'll just try to get out of the way (with or without the rider!). Unfortunately, when a horse reacts riders invariably try to "correct" the horse without first trying to find out why half a tonne of Pedigree Chum is reacting in the way it is!

The main "problem" on the tow paths near is are anglers who insist on blocking the entire tow-path with either themselves or their kit. The most irritating hazard are 'pole' rods which can extend 2-3m behind the canal bank and across the path.

Bob

Berk Bonebonce

Canal towpaths are for walkers/joggers and not cyclists, assuming you are old enough to ride on the roads. I can't blame a jogger not moving over when they get a cyclist come up behind them.

Drysuitdiver

on the short bit of towpath i use its always 2 dings and if they don't look like they have heard another 1 . no sign of a response its dismount and walk past them . common courtesy to others goes a long way. the walker you dismounted for may well be tomorrows car driver who treats another cyclist a little more considerately .

mark1964

On the Bristol to Bath Railway Path, why is it that joggers at night insist on wearing all black kit??.