New frame dilemma........ Colnago vs Wilier

richtw
richtw Posts: 118
edited January 2011 in Road buying advice
I am looking at getting a new frame, currently have a Wilier Izoard which I was looking to upgrade to the Cento Uno. The only think holding me back is the ISP as it is a pain in the backside IMO - travelling, fitting the bike in a car (plus I don't really like the look of it) etc etc. But I have ridden the Cento and it is a fantastic ride. But the ISP and the Ritchey mast topper is putting me off (it is an italian bike so no need for american components).....

This then lends me to look at the Colnago either the C59 or the M10, I have ridden a C59 and again it is a truly amazing ride (though I am not a fan of the dated lugs and the paint jobs do not inspire). The M10 I have not ridden though it looks like an amazing frame and reviews are very good.

I am intending to keep the bike for a fair time (I always say that) but still have to consider the resale at the end...

If you had the choice which would you go for?

Wilier Cento uno in red (of course)
Colnago C59 - Orange and black or matt black
Colnago M10 - Orange and black or matt black

And why?

I just can't make a decision.....
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Comments

  • I believe with the Cento you can just cut the ISP of and use it with a normal seat post if your prefer.

    I would love to upgrade my Izoard to a Cento after a test ride I fell in love, but the M10 looks so good . Try and test a M10 and buy the one that rides the best as they all look pretty damn hot !
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    The only thing 'Italian' about the Wilier is the name, the frame is made in the far east in which case your choice might have become easier. The C59 will also hold it's value better as it will go on to be recognised as a 'classic' like it's predecessor the C50.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Richtw wrote:
    This then lends me to look at the Colnago either the C59 or the M10, I have ridden a C59 and again it is a truly amazing ride (though I am not a fan of the dated lugs and the paint jobs do not inspire).

    Love the lugs! You can get a monocoque carbon frame for buttons of a Chinese vendor on Ebay but lugs on a carbon frame always indicate class and breeding!

    Do tend to think Colnago overdo the cloverleafs though :lol:
    Faster than a tent.......
  • The lugs might be dated but they do offer a unique blend of stiffness / comfort - or atleast my Look 595 does. I have seen a few cracked Cento Uno's so if you are putting in high milage and anticipate a few crashes then perhaps not a good idea.

    I really do like my other ride too - the Ridley Damocles which comes in both ISP and non ISP versions so should keep you happy - look also did re-post which meant that you could cut off the ISP and put in a re-post - not sure if they do it for their new 695 if so then its my top pick amongst all new 2011 frames as it is supposed to be even stiffer than the outgoing 595 with vibration damping properties and even lighter too furthermore it comes with an adjustable stem (angle and length) as well as crank length won't get mine till March so can;t give you a ride review - if you can live with an ISP then the Ridley Noah offers the best value and looks and i probably the fastest road frame (in terms of aerodynamics).
  • richtw
    richtw Posts: 118
    I know my heart says go with the C59 but the wait for the frame will be a lifetime and the colour schemes are a shocker! Matt black looks ok though!

    Does anyoe carry any C59 frames in stock in the UK or is it all to order from Italy?
  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    Ridden them both and as much as I loved the feel of the Cento Uno, it cannot compare to the stiffness (in this case, very very stiff) and comfortable ride of the C59. Quality frame.

    Have a look at your nearest dealer through the UK distributor. Pick a good one and get measured properly for your optimum size.

    http://www.windwave.co.uk/windwave/findadealer.html
  • Lagavulin
    Lagavulin Posts: 1,688
    edited January 2011
    C59. Looks utterly gorgeous. Voeckler's Tricolore C59 in the Tour last year is probably the nicest looking bike I've ever seen.
    It also doesn't have the hidious "structural routing" blazoned across the top tube. Can you get the M10 without that nasty graphic?

    ISP would put me off a Cento Uno too.
  • Scrumple
    Scrumple Posts: 2,665
    The Colnago's have horrid paint jobs - well painted, just hideous.

    Both bikes are superb.

    Either would do you. Ignore the "far East v Italian craft" argument. Red herring. Both frames are top notch.
    The Cento is a little more relaxed, with a bigger front.

    The ISP is not an issue at all unless you are XL frame or above, as it still fits in cars/boxes.
  • 11rco_c59wh.jpg
  • 11rco_c59wh.jpg
  • 11rco_c59wh.jpg
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Lugs also means much more choice of size, you can get a perfect fit for everyone.

    I LOVE my C50 and reports suggest that the C59 rides as well but is stiffer where it counts. Sounds perfect to me!
  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    The C50 rides nothing like the C59 - tsk!
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    The C50 rides nothing like the C59 - tsk!

    Ok. Just reporting what I'd heard other people, including a chap from Colnago say about it. Comfort and ride quality of the C50 but better handling and stiffer...

    How can it be nothing like btw? Differences between frames are fairly subtle once geometry and fit are equal...
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Scrumple wrote:
    Ignore the "far East v Italian craft" argument. Red herring. Both frames are top notch.

    Naaah, don't ignore it. Doesn't matter in terms of frame quality but supporting European manufacturing helps us economically. Besides, everything else being equal, if you are paying a stack of cash for a top quality frame, better to buy something that is hand made and has had a decent amount of time put into it rather than something that was machine made in moments. Trouble with the Wilier is that you are paying a lot for a pretence.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • Scrumple
    Scrumple Posts: 2,665
    deleted my post, can't be bothered to give the above the time, and don't want to start an argument.

    Like he said - both are as good as each other, except one is pretending to be good...






    .....?
  • ride them both and then decide, the Colnago will turn more heads though :wink:

    TBH not a lot between them, or many others at that price so personal preference around ride quality should count for more than other peoples opinions.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Review of the Cento Uno here. He goes on a lot about the fit and finish but hasn't actually ridden it! :roll:

    http://range.wordpress.com/2009/08/16/2 ... to-uno-sl/
  • I have found in the past that you never really know whether a bike will suit you until you have ridden it. The problem is, where can you find a C59 and M10 to test ride? Most dealers will tell you the importers don't offer test bikes, and leave it at that. I'd love to buy one - or the other - but not without a ride first.

    If anyone has found either of these available as a built-up bikes to test ride, I'd love to know.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Scrumple wrote:
    deleted my post, can't be bothered to give the above the time, and don't want to start an argument.

    Like he said - both are as good as each other, except one is pretending to be good...

    Oh cheer up! I didn't say that the Wilier wasn't good - just that you are paying in part for the impression of a handbuilt Italian frame which it isn't. If you read my post, you'll see that I agreed with you that both are good.
    Now sit down and have a drink of something nice :D
    Faster than a tent.......
  • Scrumple
    Scrumple Posts: 2,665
    TBH not a lot between them, or many others at that price so personal preference around ride quality should count for more than other peoples opinions.

    sense


    As to the above - I saw you agreed on quality, just found it odd that you then say one costs more for pretence. If it is as good - then who cares how it was made. That's why I deleted my post and re wrote it... didn't wanna argue either!

    Should have kept schtum.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Scrumple wrote:
    Should have kept schtum.

    Noooo, internet's for bickering!

    Depends on how you look at it - if you purely consider the end result, how it was made clearly doesn't matter. For me though it is important - sometimes even more important than the function. Eg it's one reason why I own an expensive vintage watch with one of the best mechanical movements ever made. Doesn't keep as good time as any quartz watch but I could never pay as much for a watch with a machine made quartz movement as one with a mechanical movement. But some would pay thousands for a quartz watch.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • Scrumple
    Scrumple Posts: 2,665
    NapoleonD wrote:
    Review of the Cento Uno here. He goes on a lot about the fit and finish but hasn't actually ridden it! :roll:

    http://range.wordpress.com/2009/08/16/2 ... to-uno-sl/

    Tut tut - that is not a review. It is also (having read every revew out there) the worst hatchet job on the bike going. Having found that "review" you must have wandered past plenty of objective and properly researched ones.

    "A caveat: I have only researched these frames, never tried them. I have scoured forums and the web to get good idea about this frame"...

    The chainstay issue was a problem with 11 speed record, and there are no issues with any other gruppos. The new frames have changed to resolve this. Most of the real problems were down to LBS's leaving in the rear nylon chainstay tube used to guide the wire through... there was a long thread here by a poster whose LBS did this until I forced him to get the bike shop to call ATB - who told them they were wrong. Besides, the cable now comes out the top of the chainstay. The blemishes in the finish are natural where the carbon weave is bonded.

    Posting that link, as a bike fan, is naughty. It is the review equivalent of a couch potato reading the Sport, and posting it as truth. Mischief making, Nap!

    Plenty of decent reviews at bikeradar and competativecyclist etc.
  • Gazzetta67
    Gazzetta67 Posts: 1,890
    Colnago EPS or C59 with Campag Super Record - DONT ruin it with that Meccano Shyte called SRAM it`s god awful.
  • Scrumple
    Scrumple Posts: 2,665
    Le Cycle award Wilier for the second year in a row The Vélo de l’Année (“bicycle of the year”) is a Wilier Triestina again. Last year the renown French magazine Le Cycle awarded Cento1 as the best bike of the year; the same prize has been won in 2010 by Imperiale, the “bike designed by the wind

    http://www.wilierbikes.co.uk/wp-wilier/?p=634

    Wonder if this helped the research?! I prefer the opinion of experts.

    hehe
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Scrumple wrote:
    NapoleonD wrote:
    Review of the Cento Uno here. He goes on a lot about the fit and finish but hasn't actually ridden it! :roll:

    http://range.wordpress.com/2009/08/16/2 ... to-uno-sl/

    Tut tut - that is not a review. It is also (having read every revew out there) the worst hatchet job on the bike going. Having found that "review" you must have wandered past plenty of objective and properly researched ones.

    "A caveat: I have only researched these frames, never tried them. I have scoured forums and the web to get good idea about this frame"...

    The chainstay issue was a problem with 11 speed record, and there are no issues with any other gruppos. The new frames have changed to resolve this. Most of the real problems were down to LBS's leaving in the rear nylon chainstay tube used to guide the wire through... there was a long thread here by a poster whose LBS did this until I forced him to get the bike shop to call ATB - who told them they were wrong. Besides, the cable now comes out the top of the chainstay. The blemishes in the finish are natural where the carbon weave is bonded.

    Posting that link, as a bike fan, is naughty. It is the review equivalent of a couch potato reading the Sport, and posting it as truth. Mischief making, Nap!

    Plenty of decent reviews at bikeradar and competativecyclist etc.

    ? I was posting the 'review' then saying he hadn't ridden it... It's not mischief making. The Bikeradar review FWIW is lukewarm.

    I know you love your bike Scrumple, everyone loves their own bike... Don't fret if someone says anything negative about it! I couldn't give a toss what people think of mine, it's mine and I ride it!
  • Scrumple
    Scrumple Posts: 2,665
    edited January 2011
    You missed my point, that review is the worst effort on the web. To post that link is just bad form as it endorses an idiot's 2nd hand thoughts (based on reading them).

    I didn't make any issue of how much I like my bike (read all my posts on this thread, none say anything other than they are BOTH good).

    My problem was that the link you posted was just a really p:ss poor piece of cack journalism. Nothing to do with my opinion of the bike at all. I don't fret it is a bad review, I just fret it is WRONG. I'd only ever post a link to something worth reading, and you'd have to ignore a fair few expert reviews on google to even get to that one.

    Just wondering what drew you to posting that link above the other well written ones? You even point out it is likely to be crap!
  • Gazzetta67
    Gazzetta67 Posts: 1,890
    Give Maestro in Bognor Regis a Try - Selling Colnago`s since the 70`s
  • Grifteruk
    Grifteruk Posts: 244
    FWIW I was the OP on the thread Scrumple mentioned about the rear cables and everything is now fine and dandy! I'd ignore anything about the chainstay issues as they are long gone provided (as with any other ride) you set up properly !

    Ive never ridden a Colnago so cant comment on it. The only thing I can say is check out my tag and pics of the Wilier when built up new and decide for yourself. I know which one I prefer (but then i'm biased aint I !!).
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Scrumple wrote:
    You missed my point, that review is the worst effort on the web. To post that link is just bad form as it endorses an idiot's 2nd hand thoughts (based on reading them).

    I didn't make any issue of how much I like my bike (read all my posts on this thread, none say anything other than they are BOTH good).

    My problem was that the link you posted was just a really p:ss poor piece of cack journalism. Nothing to do with my opinion of the bike at all. I don't fret it is a bad review, I just fret it is WRONG. I'd only ever post a link to something worth reading, and you'd have to ignore a fair few expert reviews on google to even get to that one.

    Just wondering what drew you to posting that link above the other well written ones? You even point out it is likely to be crap!

    To be fair, it was the first hit!