Cheap carbon frames on ebay

Niffleman

I am just curous to know if anyone has bought one of the cheap carbon frame and fork or frame only deals from ebay, for example this one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Brand-New-Full-Ca ... 415573439a

As with most things I guess the truth is that you get what you pay for, but at that price I am almost tempted. Anyone got any experience of them?

Berk Bonebonce

I didn't buy from that particular seller, but obtained mine direct from another Chinese OEM company on Ebay.

Carbon fibre is carbon fibre, apart from the hi-modulus frames that appear at a higher price point. The people you buy from will typically make frames for the large North American/European re-sellers, who mark up their frames hugely after the application of paint and decals- and sometimes not even much paint.

It is my thinking that these same Chinese manufacturers have a design or two which they make available for private sales through outlets like Alibaba and Ebay.

That is an exceptionally good price - quite possibly an overmake on a large OEM order.

tri-sexual

my god that is cheap, tempted
so berk, which seller did you use, how much did you pay? whats frame like? how fast was delivery? would you recommend i?, any info would be useful

daveydave43

i am also tempted by one of these frames, possibly the FM015 ISP
there are some huge threads on RBR, this http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showth ... p?t=234445
being the fourth, with links to the others.
some good information and nice pics of builds.

mrushton

Anyone hazard a guess at what make of frame it's rebadged as or copied from?

Chip \'oyler

Berk Bonebonce wrote:

I didn't buy from that particular seller, but obtained mine direct from another Chinese OEM company on Ebay.

Carbon fibre is carbon fibre, apart from the hi-modulus frames that appear at a higher price point. The people you buy from will typically make frames for the large North American/European re-sellers, who mark up their frames hugely after the application of paint and decals- and sometimes not even much paint.

It is my thinking that these same Chinese manufacturers have a design or two which they make available for private sales through outlets like Alibaba and Ebay.

That is an exceptionally good price - quite possibly an overmake on a large OEM order.

No it's not. There are varying standards of carbon fibre - add to that how much resin is impregnated in the carbon as well and you'll find that not all carbon fibre is equal.

For example - have a look at one of the world's top carbon fibre manufacturers - Toray Industries and their various products. T700 grade carbon is a lot different to T900 for instance.

Your statment is a bit like someone saying that all cycle steel tubing is the same

proto

If you can afford the time, have a read of this thread (and three more before it), a couple of hundred pages altogether.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showth ... p?t=234445

There are a number of Chinese direct sellers of frames and a few different designs. However, by and large the frames are the same from each vendor. So, the assumption is that either one company is banging our frames and a few different companies sell them, or that they vendors just copy something. Or maybe a bit of both.

The frame you link to is one some these. You've no idea who made it and will never find out, but so what. It'll be fine.

I've contacted a couple of vendors and the going rate is about £300 shipped, frame, fork, headset. A bit more if you want a custom paint job. Delivery varies but something like two weeks, I understand.

jonmack

Wow, a whole world I never knew existed has just opened up!

dodgy

Yep, this is what happenes when more or less every bicycle company on earth outsources to China, all is well while the status quo is maintained for a few years then one by one the factories start to open up on eBay and the like and boom. But the 'manufacturers' (read sticker designers and marketeers) can do nothing about it.

Nice

infopete

I've been trying to wade my way through the roadbikereview thread to see who offers the best deal as I quiet like the look of a Chinarello.

I asked a question on roadbikereview but it got swamped so I'll ask again.

After all, I need a cheap road bike while I carry on with my quest with Merlin/Litespeed.

http://americanbicyclegroup.wordpress.com please click here to increase my google/wordpress ratings.

Berk Bonebonce

Chip \'oyler wrote:

Your statment is a bit like someone saying that all cycle steel tubing is the same

Funny you should say that. Former employee of UK cycle tubing manufacturer speaking here who claims to know the Chinese OEM carbon fibre market pretty well. And all steel cycle tubing is in fact the same, in as much as if you get a frame made from butted 4130 cro-moly, it might be re-badged by an Italian tubing manufacturer, but it is still butted 4130 cro-moly.

My cheap carbon frame came direct from one of the large Chinese manufacturers who I know sell to European companies.

The quicker the European bike manufacturers with fancy names die the better. The world is changing.

The company I bought from didn't have the frame size I wanted in stock, but they made one to order. Approx a month wait.

Niffleman

Thanks for all the information. So if I understand correctly, I'll probably end up with a Giant/tTrek/Cannondale/Specialized/Bianchi/Boardman/Orbea/Raleigh but without the stickers, or the price tag. Very, very tempting.......

Chip \'oyler

Berk Bonebonce wrote:

Chip \'oyler wrote:

Your statment is a bit like someone saying that all cycle steel tubing is the same

Funny you should say that. Former employee of UK cycle tubing manufacturer speaking here who claims to know the Chinese OEM carbon fibre market pretty well. And all steel cycle tubing is in fact the same, in as much as if you get a frame made from butted 4130 cro-moly, it might be re-badged by an Italian tubing manufacturer, but it is still butted 4130 cro-moly.

My cheap carbon frame came direct from one of the large Chinese manufacturers who I know sell to European companies.

The quicker the European bike manufacturers with fancy names die the better. The world is changing.
The company I bought from didn't have the frame size I wanted in stock, but they made one to order. Approx a month wait.

So are you saying that Reynold's 631 is the same as 853 for instance?

Chip \'oyler

Berk Bonebonce wrote:

Chip \'oyler wrote:

Your statment is a bit like someone saying that all cycle steel tubing is the same

Funny you should say that. Former employee of UK cycle tubing manufacturer speaking here who claims to know the Chinese OEM carbon fibre market pretty well. And all steel cycle tubing is in fact the same, in as much as if you get a frame made from butted 4130 cro-moly, it might be re-badged by an Italian tubing manufacturer, but it is still butted 4130 cro-moly.

My cheap carbon frame came direct from one of the large Chinese manufacturers who I know sell to European companies.

The quicker the European bike manufacturers with fancy names die the better. The world is changing.

The company I bought from didn't have the frame size I wanted in stock, but they made one to order. Approx a month wait.

Next thing you'll be telling me that a Time frame is the same as that mass produced Chinese rubbish!

proto

infopete wrote:

I've been trying to wade my way through the roadbikereview thread to see who offers the best deal as I quiet like the look of a Chinarello.

I asked a question on roadbikereview but it got swamped so I'll ask again.

I was quoted £800 for a 'Chinarello,' painted and stickered up to be, as far as I can tell, identically to a Pinarello. There again, it might actually be a Pinarello, seeing as they are made in China. :?

proto

Niffleman wrote:

Thanks for all the information. So if I understand correctly, I'll probably end up with a Giant/tTrek/Cannondale/Specialized/Bianchi/Boardman/Orbea/Raleigh but without the stickers, or the price tag. Very, very tempting.......

You can get them with stickers if you want, $560/$800 each. Min order qty 2 units

(takes a while to load)

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/38660 ... timum.html

tri-sexual

proto wrote:

Niffleman wrote:

Thanks for all the information. So if I understand correctly, I'll probably end up with a Giant/tTrek/Cannondale/Specialized/Bianchi/Boardman/Orbea/Raleigh but without the stickers, or the price tag. Very, very tempting.......

You can get them with stickers if you want, $560/$800 each. Min order qty 2 units

(takes a while to load)

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/38660 ... timum.html

just been looking through the alibaba web site, load of bargains
typed in various bike brands into the search and was surprised to find how cheap things are.
even groupsets (eg shimano dura ace di2) resulted in results, absolute bargain
next time i'm in the far east, probably hong kong next year, i will try to track down some of these suppliers

Berk Bonebonce

Chip \'oyler wrote:

Next thing you'll be telling me that a Time frame is the same as that mass produced Chinese rubbish!

Of course, there are the leading manufacturers that make their own frames, like Look, Time, Colnago, BMC and a few others. I mean, you do not have to be some kind of trade insider to work out which frames are made by the OEM companies in the Far East and which ones are not.

The Chinese company I got my frame from make about 6,000 units a year. Who do you think they sell them to?

bigpikle

looks a good way to get a reasonable carbon frame for a fraction of the cost of a branded version, IF you're not too fussy or a brand junkie. Think you'll need to invest some serious time to select the frame and seller that suits you though judging by the amount of info on the threads at RBR...

I looked at getting a ti frame from a recommended Chinese manufacturer through here and must admit the response time to emails and questions puts many UK retailers to shame! Decided not to go ti int he end but nothing to do with the seller and could see myself going that way in future.

andyrr

If I was in the market for a cheap carbon frame then I would :
a) likely go Chinese unless one closer to home was available for a reasonably close price (eg the P-X frames currently on offer)
b) Take the time to wade through the RBR threads even though they are seriously lengthy - there is a lot of useful info in amongst the chat about painting and headsets etc etc. eg make sure you order a headset plus rear mech hanger (even an extra spare one - sometimes one will be chucked in for free or can be requested as a freebie), communicate with your source to make sure you both understand what is being ordered plus that gives better assurance that this is a genuine supplier as not all of the Alibaba ones are to be trusted it seems.
I myself am looking at these but as I don't have a real need for one I am trying to hold off. I've a set of ZIPP bars/stem along with other bits such as wheels and saddle and pedals that would mean that I could have a new carbon road race bike just with the main groupset items being bought.


Also the RBR threads sound alarm bells for me WRT the seriously cheap groupsets so I'd be particularly cautious about buying these until I'd done some good research onthe source.

forward_loop

I'm still not sure how this all works
D12 - for $600
the new integrated Look frame for $900

All with Escrow - so you dont pay till the item arrives.

I alwaysthought that if a deal was too good to be true.....it probably was.

I can sort of understand OEM products for companies that use the far east (as mentioned above) - but how do they manage the integrated Looks for example ?

blackrockracer

Caution , there are a few scams ongoing on Alibaba at the moment. Before giving over your hard earned money to some Chinese fraudster I suguest that you use our old friend google!!

Just type in the name of some of the companies 'giving away' Di2 and genuine 2011 model frameset for buttons. A lot of negative feedback !! Too good to be true for most of them.

Berk Bonebonce

Personally, I wouldn't do Alibaba. Ebay with PayPal is, I think, the safest way.

Intherain

have trawled through these threads I am very tempted - does anyone know which is the Chinarello frame - is it the FM015?
Berks, which distributor/manufacturer did you order from?

dombo6

Forward loop wrote:

I'm still not sure how this all works
D12 - for $600
the new integrated Look frame for $900

All with Escrow - so you dont pay till the item arrives.

I alwaysthought that if a deal was too good to be true.....it probably was.
I can sort of understand OEM products for companies that use the far east (as mentioned above) - but how do they manage the integrated Looks for example ?

Be very careful with escrow. With whom is the money held? By your own solicitor down the road in a client escrow account, or by an "escrow company" of the vendor's choosing in Guangdong or wherever?. As someone else has said, PayPal or credit card (NOT debit card) is the safest way.

jonmack

No, the FM015 is nothing like the Chinarello

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Full-Carbon-Road- ... 657wt_1077

http://flyxii.com/products_1.asp?menuid=308&id=520

FR-109 from that manufacturer, not sure of it from other "brands" though, sorry!

Not sure of the model number of that, but I'll keep looking for you.


EDIT: For what it's worth, this is an FM015

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Full-Carbon-Fiber ... 4264wt_912

bigpikle

Did anyone establish whether frames shipped to the UK get stung for VAT & duty? Seems all the buyers i saw were in Europe of the US and the manufacturers I looked at all said shipping FOB implying everything they attract once it gets to the ship is down to the buyer...

Its hard to look past a Planet X when you're staring at £300-400 for a no-brand carbon frame. I'm not a particular PX fan but at least you have a large reputable retailer to go back to if your frame turns out to be a dog, and it does seem there are plenty of frames arriving with problems you really dont want to find!

Intherain

jonmack wrote:

No, the FM015 is nothing like the Chinarello

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Full-Carbon-Road- ... 657wt_1077

http://flyxii.com/products_1.asp?menuid=308&id=520

FR-109 from that manufacturer, not sure of it from other "brands" though, sorry!

Not sure of the model number of that, but I'll keep looking for you.


EDIT: For what it's worth, this is an FM015

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Full-Carbon-Fiber ... 4264wt_912

Thanks! Still tempted by the Chinarello!

geebee2

I bought a FM015 from hongfu - all went quite smoothly, paid by Paypal ( no customs issues, but I read someone got stung in Germany ).

Frame + Fork + Headset + Seatpost + Handlebar + Bottle cage came to $641.50 = £414.63 after currency conversion ( all carbon ).

See link below for a picture.

lewishamilton

The FM015 is very similar to the FM028 - I believe they are both from DengFu (seller), with the first being a slightly more aggressive geometry.

I've ordered a RFM101 - which is the chinarello. I ordered mine from greatkeenbike.com - really crap website but reading reviews on RBR from other people that have ordered, they seem to be really happy with the service and frame once delivered.
I spoke to a women called MsHu. Deliveries a bit slow due to xmas, but hopefully receive it soon. (I went for a naked carbon 3k with matte finish - no paint or decals).

Once the frame arrives I'll post pics/info of the build.

If your seriously considering buying - as previously said, read the threads on RBR (there's 4 threads, but tons of information).

Berk Bonebonce

FM028 = GreatKeen.