Brushy brake blocks/ Rim assistance (insert joke here)

lost_in_thought
lost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
edited November 2010 in Commuting chat
My Mixte has brushy brake blocks. They look like they're made of felt or something, or carpet offcuts.

I replaced the front ones with normal rubber ones, they fit and all, but make a dreadful noise when you try to stop. They stop OK, not as well as I'm used to.

I noticed, however, that my rims are very shiny. Potentially chrome. This does not for a great braking surface make.

Should I put the brushy ones back?

Can I get new brushy ones?

What's the technical term for the brushy brake blocks?
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Comments

  • EKE_38BPM
    EKE_38BPM Posts: 5,821
    Sounds like you've got steel rims. Shiny, noisy and not very effective.

    I'd change the wheels (to lighter aluminium ones) and use normal brake blocks.
    FCN 3: Raleigh Record Ace fixie-to be resurrected sometime in the future
    FCN 4: Planet X Schmaffenschmack 2- workhorse
    FCN 9: B Twin Vitamin - winter commuter/loan bike for trainees

    I'm hungry. I'm always hungry!
  • Yes, get aluminium rims. If you think it doesn't stop now, wait til it rains; if you didn't experience it in your younger years, it'll scare the crap out of you. But no, don't go back to the prior blocks, and if anything, put on Koolstop Salmons.
  • EKE_38BPM
    EKE_38BPM Posts: 5,821
    If the hubs are good it may be an idea just to get ali rims, but if you've got steel rims you probably have pants hubs.

    Time for some new wheels, methinks.
    FCN 3: Raleigh Record Ace fixie-to be resurrected sometime in the future
    FCN 4: Planet X Schmaffenschmack 2- workhorse
    FCN 9: B Twin Vitamin - winter commuter/loan bike for trainees

    I'm hungry. I'm always hungry!
  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    Old skool!

    You've probably done this already but the squealing may be helped by toeing in the brake shoes. If it's not that then I've got nothing. Nothing, I tell you.

    Edit: Sheldon says Brushy brake blocks don't exist. Sorry :phttp://sheldonbrown.com/rim-brakes.html
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
    Planet-x Scott
    Rides
  • EKE_38BPM
    EKE_38BPM Posts: 5,821
    Don't follow my advice to an annoying school chum and "put grease on your rims".

    That was the last thing I said to him before his accident.
    FCN 3: Raleigh Record Ace fixie-to be resurrected sometime in the future
    FCN 4: Planet X Schmaffenschmack 2- workhorse
    FCN 9: B Twin Vitamin - winter commuter/loan bike for trainees

    I'm hungry. I'm always hungry!
  • itboffin
    itboffin Posts: 20,052
    Any kind of chrome or steel rims with rubber pads will equal certain death in the wet, okay so a slight exaggeration but you get what I mean.

    Chuck some new wheels and koolstop pads on the steed.
    Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    My Raleigh Record Ace has had steel rims inflicted on it. Hasn't been too much of a problem tbh as I tend to only ride it in the dry and the country so regular sudden braking isn't such a problem. Besides, its crap braking is as much to blame on the authentic circa 1980 brake blocks as the wheels.

    When I visit my parents next, I'll be bringing along new brake blocks (still of the old design of course) plus a set of genuine Record Ace wheels (Maillard Normandy hubs with Weinmann rims) - the wheels cost me a grand total of £22.52 which seems to be about the going rate. Taken me a bit of a while to polish them up nicely and service the hubs but they look pretty ace now and should save a bit of weight too.

    At that sort of price, it really isn't worth not sourcing decent wheels.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,484
    Ah, I remember chrome rims <looks wistfully into middle distance> Yes, they aren't that great in the wet, but there is something rather pretty about them. Fine for bimbling around country lanes, but something with a bit more bite is probably best for London commuting.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Look!

    5218743927_7c6b9ca3f4.jpg

    See, they SO exist. Sheldon is wrong (may he rest in peace).

    My rims are very, very shiny, hence why I thought they might have been chrome. It looks like the chroming is peeling in places, and closer inspection reveals a fair sized dent. The hubs are....OK. A bit grindy.

    But I like them, they're very nice over bumps and potholes etc, seem to just suck them up. But on the other hand I do enjoy stopping. Maybe I'll get some salmons.

    Rolf, where'd you get said wheels?
  • EKE_38BPM
    EKE_38BPM Posts: 5,821
    My 1980s era Raleigh Europa had rubber brake blocks with a leather insert. I suppose that bushy stuff may be leather?

    Ditch the rims. Keep the hubs if you like them.
    FCN 3: Raleigh Record Ace fixie-to be resurrected sometime in the future
    FCN 4: Planet X Schmaffenschmack 2- workhorse
    FCN 9: B Twin Vitamin - winter commuter/loan bike for trainees

    I'm hungry. I'm always hungry!
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    I got them from Ebay; these are they - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... SA:GB:1123

    These might be good - the tyres are £20 each new. There's always a few good quality old 27 inch wheels for sale though.

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/27-X-1-1-4-WHEELS ... 27b6db41a1

    Grindy hubs - strip and re-grease; all you need is a couple of cone spanners. Even if the bearing surfaces are a bit pock marked, some new grease will do wonders!

    I think the pads maybe felt or suede or some such. It does ring a bell.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    Look!

    5218743927_7c6b9ca3f4.jpg

    See, they SO exist. Sheldon is wrong (may he rest in peace).
    Well slap me with a kipper! Sheldon is not infallible :shock:

    Actually I do vaguely remember having similar blocks on my first bike. Salmons would be a step up. It all depends how far you want to go or if you want to keep the original brake calipers. Newer dual-pivots and levers will probably help quite a lot too.
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
    Planet-x Scott
    Rides
  • dhope
    dhope Posts: 6,699
    JonGinge wrote:
    Salmons would be a step up. It all depends how far you want to go or if you want to keep the original brake calipers. Newer dual-pivots and levers will probably help quite a lot too.

    New pads, maybe new brakes and levers, different rims, maybe a slightly different shaped frame. Stay fixed of course, something like a Fuji should suit perfectly :wink:
    Rose Xeon CW Disc
    CAAD12 Disc
    Condor Tempo
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,675
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • Interesting, interesting!

    The ones they're talking about being good actually seem to be these ones:

    vbleath.jpg


    However, after this morning's ride in, I think I may pop one of the spare Rolf Prima wheels I have under my bed on the front, just so, y'know, I can actually come to a halt without putting my feet down!

    How does it work with the 5 speed cassette on new wheels? Is that a shimano hub thingo? Campag? Other?
  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    Interesting, the blocks in the pic nick posted are for adjusting the resistance when riding on rollers. I never knew such things existed.

    You may be able to put a 10spd hub wheel on the mixte but it may turn into more of a project. Friction or indexed shifters at the moment? Friction gives you a slightly easier path.
    You'll have to check the rear triangle is the right width for newer wheels (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html). If the mixte can use (or can be made to use) newer wheels you'll need a new chain and (potentially) a new chainset. I converted a 7spd indexed to 10spd and got away without needing a new chainset. For the indexing I just chose 7 gears from the block and fettled to get those to work.

    Try salmons if you can get some they may help a bit. If not you've got spares for the other bikes.

    Oh, and obligatory paging Greg T, paging Greg T ;)
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
    Planet-x Scott
    Rides
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,484
    Interesting, interesting!

    How does it work with the 5 speed cassette on new wheels? Is that a shimano hub thingo? Campag? Other?

    Further to what JG said, it'll probably be a freewheel (screw on, similar to FG/SS) rather than a freehub, and 120mm or 126mm OLN (Outside Lock Nut) spacing rather than current standard 130mm. You can buy new 126mm OLN hubs, threaded for freewheels, and you can get freewheel cassettes fairly easily, but your choice is fairly limited. SJS are pretty good for this kind of thing.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Let me shed some certainty on this. It will be a screw on freewheel (chrome rims + freehub and cassette = not exist) and the spacing will be 126, because they just are (120 is track hub spacing, and Sturmey Archers can be different, but a 5 speed freewheel is 126). I have had a 126 spaced frame with a 9 speed cassette hub in it, and I did not cold-set the frame; for my rippling manly physique, springing the dropouts 4mm while I slid the wheel in didn't pose a problem. The expense is likely to be high, however, one you factor in shifters, derailleurs etc. There's no shortage of wheelsets out there, or equally, you could buy some nice blingy hubs (Phil Wood does a screw-on freewheel hub), grab some rims from SJS and have your own built for probably less than you would spend.

    If it were me, I'd build a vintage hot-rod. Used nice hubs or complete wheels from eBay (Campy, Suntour Superbe, high end Shimano), and replace the derailleurs and shifters at the same time. Shimano 600 Arabesque or 105 Golden Arrow are super cool (google them if you haven't seen), much cheaper than similar period Duea Ace or Campy, and far more common than Superbe. Pair of dual-pivot brake calipers, and you could have a fast, cool, retro bike. Total cost? Maybe £150, or less if you're prepared to be patient.
    MiniLogo-1.jpg
    http://www.velochocolate.co.uk Special Treats for Lifestyle Cyclists

    From FCN from 8 (road bike, beard, bag, work clothes) to 15 (on my Brompton)
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,484
    SamWise72 wrote:
    ... you could buy some nice blingy hubs (Phil Wood does a screw-on freewheel hub), grab some rims from SJS and have your own built for probably less than you would spend.

    If it were me, I'd build a vintage hot-rod. Used nice hubs or complete wheels from eBay (Campy, Suntour Superbe, high end Shimano), and replace the derailleurs and shifters at the same time. Shimano 600 Arabesque or 105 Golden Arrow are super cool (google them if you haven't seen), much cheaper than similar period Duea Ace or Campy, and far more common than Superbe. Pair of dual-pivot brake calipers, and you could have a fast, cool, retro bike. Total cost? Maybe £150, or less if you're prepared to be patient.

    Vintage groupsets, oh, be still my heart! Those Phil Wood hubs are lovely, but so they should be for that price
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    Lit, depends on the fork/stem on the mixte but i've got one of these purty things you can have...
    fff_cinelli_xa_binder_det.jpg

    I have had a 126 spaced frame with a 9 speed cassette hub in it, and I did not cold-set the frame; for my rippling manly physique, springing the dropouts 4mm while I slid the wheel in didn't pose a problem.
    I, too, did this on one bike. I got a lot of broken rear axles which may, or may not, have been related...
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
    Planet-x Scott
    Rides
  • secretsam
    secretsam Posts: 5,098
    If LiT doesn't want that lovely old Cinelli stem, I'll take it!

    LiT - I actually may still have a set of old stylee 27" alloys knocking around with a 6 speed freewheel on it (that's the screw on type for you lucky youngsters!) - you can have them gratis. Alternatively, do like I did on the old 531 and drop in a pair of nice modern 700c alloys, and fit a pair of long drop nut-fitting DP brakes if needs be (I got mine for £10 each end from Condor, your fave shop! - alternatively, Tektro do some nice ones for around £50 a pair and you can also get Alhonga's from E-bay/Spa/etc.).

    Steel rims are lethal and should be consigned to a recycling skip at the nearest council facility. Anyone going on about 'authentic' and getting all wistful would probably do the same about steam cars, therefore their opinion is worth precisely minus infinity. Plus steel rims weigh more than Mars. Put it this way: back in the 80s when cheap bikes had steel rims, Denmark banned them on safety grounds, so Raleighs et al that were sold over there were otherwise identical to UK spec but with alloy rims.

    Isn't it desperately sad that I know all of the above cr*p?!?!?!?!?!? :lol:

    It's just a hill. Get over it.
  • Ooh, take the stem! The only reason to consider not taking the wheels is that you have a smaller choice of tyres! I would accept the stem and wheels, put the wheels on immediately, and the ponder gradually upgrading your humble mixte to an object of desire. I picked up for about £60 once an all 531 Mercian mixte from the late 50's with an original Campy Gran Sport deraiileur and Mafac canti brakes; it was beautiful, for all that it had been subjected to 80s paint-splash style bar tape and seat. I could have sold the derailleur alone for more than the bike cost me, but while I was pondering what to do with it, some bastard stole it from my garden. That hurt. I have pics if people want to see.

    I also have a 1940 Bates BAR frame if anyone here who rides a 22 frame wants something REALLY exotic. Needs a repaint, mind.
    MiniLogo-1.jpg
    http://www.velochocolate.co.uk Special Treats for Lifestyle Cyclists

    From FCN from 8 (road bike, beard, bag, work clothes) to 15 (on my Brompton)
  • SecretSam wrote:
    If LiT doesn't want that lovely old Cinelli stem, I'll take it!

    LiT - I actually may still have a set of old stylee 27" alloys knocking around with a 6 speed freewheel on it (that's the screw on type for you lucky youngsters!) - you can have them gratis. Alternatively, do like I did on the old 531 and drop in a pair of nice modern 700c alloys, and fit a pair of long drop nut-fitting DP brakes if needs be (I got mine for £10 each end from Condor, your fave shop! - alternatively, Tektro do some nice ones for around £50 a pair and you can also get Alhonga's from E-bay/Spa/etc.).

    Steel rims are lethal and should be consigned to a recycling skip at the nearest council facility. Anyone going on about 'authentic' and getting all wistful would probably do the same about steam cars, therefore their opinion is worth precisely minus infinity. Plus steel rims weigh more than Mars. Put it this way: back in the 80s when cheap bikes had steel rims, Denmark banned them on safety grounds, so Raleighs et al that were sold over there were otherwise identical to UK spec but with alloy rims.

    Isn't it desperately sad that I know all of the above cr*p?!?!?!?!?!? :lol:

    Interesting!

    I would take the stem, but the one that's on there at the moment is very similar and I have no idea how to go about changing it!

    I must admit, I really didn't enjoy today's ride in on the steels - it was hairy to say the least, and the trouble is that I'm pootling like fury because I know I can't stop in a hurry.

    With 27" ones, can I still use 700c tyres? Or does it not work like that? The old tyres are knackered, but I've already bought some new 700c ones...

    The current calipers are fine, and quite a good-length drop - I'd be surprised if they weren't long enough for normal wheels.

    Maybe I could take the wheels off your hands (that's a very generous offer by the way - I'll have to send you a few quid!) and relace the hubs to some 700c alloy rims - or does it not work like that?

    Ah what a can of worms...
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 27,484
    No, 27" rims are not the same size as 700C. 700C is slightly smaller, hence the need for long drop calipers. 27" rims have 'imperial' widths as well - i.e. 1", 11/4" as opposed to 23C or 25C. You can get Conti Gatorskins in a 27", and quite a few other mainstream tyres, just not the more unusual ones. Changing a stem is wee-wee simple but laborious: remove brake levers and bar tape from bars; undo clamp bolt and wedge open so bars slide through easily; undo expander bolt a bit (the one that releases the stem from the fork steerer) and pull the stem out. Reverse the process to fit the new stem. The fact that you have to strip the bar tape and levers off before removing them is one of the reasons modern AHeadset stems have a face plate rather than a clamp, but they aren't anywhere near as pretty.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • And yeah, you can get any size rims laced to any hubs, but make sure the spoke count is the same if you're buying the rims yourself.

    Also, the stem that's on there might look similar to the untrained eye, but it'll be a cheapie. The Cinelli might drop you a little weight, but it will ensure that men in tight jeans and ironic t-shirts want to lick your stem.
    MiniLogo-1.jpg
    http://www.velochocolate.co.uk Special Treats for Lifestyle Cyclists

    From FCN from 8 (road bike, beard, bag, work clothes) to 15 (on my Brompton)
  • Ah well it seems quite easy! I'll have it then - I already have to strip the bars to put the new (matching) brake levers on.

    Fanks Jon! :D
  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    Ah well it seems quite easy! I'll have it then - I already have to strip the bars to put the new (matching) brake levers on.

    Fanks Jon! :D
    No problem :D
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
    Planet-x Scott
    Rides
  • While you're at it, a Brooks and leather bar tape or leather bar wraps would be FTW. Is it flat bars, or drops?
    MiniLogo-1.jpg
    http://www.velochocolate.co.uk Special Treats for Lifestyle Cyclists

    From FCN from 8 (road bike, beard, bag, work clothes) to 15 (on my Brompton)
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Don't worry about finding 27 inch tyres. There are still a fair few about - some with the necessary period gumwall.

    For ultra authenticity, Michelin World Tour - but they are a bit clumpy weight wise. If you want old looking tyres that behave like modern ones, Panaracers Pasela at £20 is apparently pretty good. Schwalbe also do gumwall 27s still for about a tenner - there are a pair of these in the new Leeds Evans so they can't be that hard to find! It isn't worth going 700c for the tyres.

    Pictures of bike please (or have I missed them posted elsewhere?)
    Faster than a tent.......
  • Don't go brookes. gilles berthoud is the way to go...