When do hills get impossible?

Rouge Penguin

Around the flatlands of East Berks, the best you can hope for is a few hundred feet of 10-12% climbs.

While in Cornwall over the weekend we were walking up and down a 20% hill, with many similar hills in the area. Would you be able to get up it with some pre prep? Would you need a triple or MTB crank?

Just wondered as it seems perfect to take the road and hardtail next summer, might be a waste of time taking the road bike if it wont get up them.

Chris James

It depends on your gearing and fitness.

You *should* be able to get up 20% hills ok. I find 25% hills hard and extremely hard if I am tired. I have never tried a 1 in 3!

Low gears help, although lots of people get out of the saddle and mash very steep hills, which slightly redcuces the need for a massivley low bottom gear.

If your roadie has a bottom gear of 39/23 you may struggle. If the bottom gear is 34/27 then your gears shoudl be fine, it just depends on your fitness.

jame58rown

I rode a 20% hill with hairpins that seemed even steeper and managed it fine using the "stomping out of the saddle" technique on a racing double (52/39). And I'm not fit at all.

jibberjim

jame58rown wrote:

I rode a 20% hill with hairpins that seemed even steeper and managed it fine using the "stomping out of the saddle" technique on a racing double (52/39). And I'm not fit at all.

Whereas I'm reasonably fit as a cyclist and often fail to climb 25% hills on 34x28. It will depend a lot on your personal characteristics. People who are very strong and have fast twitch fibres will be able to climb much steeper hills because they can grind it out. Weaker individuals or those with very slow twitch muscles will not as the forces required to turn the gear become more than is comfortable.

For most cycling all that really matters is power. But when your over geared peak force starts to matter too. Being able to put out a high peak force means you can continue to put out the 200 watts required to turn a 39x25 to get you up the hill at 40 rpm, when someone who cannot put out those peak forces will fail at 40rpm but if they had a gear allowing them to pedal at 80rpm (reducing the peak force by at least half) they could happily continue to climb.

With appropriate gears you'll get up almost any road. With inappropriate gears when you don't get up will depend on how strong you are, not how fit you are.

jame58rown

I don't weigh much at all: around 9 stone. So I definately have a 'climbers physique' even if i'm not that fit. lol

bobtbuilder

There is no reason you shouldn't get up climbs like that on your road bike if you're prepared to suffer.

I'm 85kg and I've never found a hill I couldn't get up including 30%+ climbs like Wrynose & Hardknott.

Dr S

Off to Coombe Gibbet for a while! Not sure on the grade but it gets pretty stiff.

You can always do repeats :-)

cougie

Check out the pics and vid of Mow Cop on the Cheshire Cat. Thats a git - 33% I think ?

MichaelW

Climbing is all about power/weight. It is pretty normal for big sprinters to suffer on climbs whilst skinny whippets have the advantage on slopes.
Weight includes bike+rider+load. I am a 9 1/2 stone rider and even on a steel touring bike, I can out climb many big guys on lightweight race bikes.
Low gears play a part. The lowest speed you can ride is about 3mph but it is still easier to ride at that speed rather than push the bike.
I come from flatland and the only way to train for hills is to train in the hills. Cranking out flat miles is a good base but you need a week in the mountains to develop your climbing muscles.

BG2000

cougie wrote:

Check out the pics and vid of Mow Cop on the Cheshire Cat. Thats a git - 33% I think ?

Nah...it's 25%, and there's a gradient road sign to prove it ! (not that they're always accurate, but this road's in a straight line, so it was easy to measure).

The problem with Mow Cop is that you've already gained 150mtrs at an average of about 11% before you hit the really steep bit, and after that you're still not at the top !

Pokerface

BG2000 wrote:

cougie wrote:

Check out the pics and vid of Mow Cop on the Cheshire Cat. Thats a git - 33% I think ?

Nah...it's 25%, and there's a gradient road sign to prove it ! (not that they're always accurate, but this road's in a straight line, so it was easy to measure).

The problem with Mow Cop is that you've already gained 150mtrs at an average of about 11% before you hit the really steep bit, and after that you're still not at the top !

Mow Cop AVERAGES 25%. I believe there are sections that are steeper, although most of is actually less than the signposted 25%.


Hills get too hard when they are too steep to ride up them seated - and the road is wet enough to make your back wheel spin when standing!

BG2000

Rouge Penguin wrote:

Around the flatlands of East Berks, the best you can hope for is a few hundred feet of 10-12% climbs.

While in Cornwall over the weekend we were walking up and down a 20% hill, with many similar hills in the area. Would you be able to get up it with some pre prep? Would you need a triple or MTB crank?

Just wondered as it seems perfect to take the road and hardtail next summer, might be a waste of time taking the road bike if it wont get up them.

As others have said, there only limit is your strength and fitness. Really steep hills can hurt your upper body just as much as your legs - all over pain !

I've known some 1:3 roads that are hard to get up on an MTB because the front wheel wants to lift up all the time. You shouldn't get this problem on a road bike.

Don't be put off at all just because a road is 20%. The steeper the road, the quicker you gain evelation, so even though it hurts more, you won't have to suffer for as long. That may or may not be something useful to tell yourself when you panic at seeing the gradient sign !

You need to say what your lowest gear is on the road bike.

Uncle Ook

Did a climb with a 17% average and sections over 33% during the summer - poor route planning! 39/25 gearing. I've never experienced such all over body pain... it was all I could do to turn the pedals on the steepest part and every part of me hurt by the top. At least I got to the top. My cycling buddy fell off when his back wheel lost traction. Never want to do that again.

For me, 17% - 20% is at the top of my comfort zone - any steeper and I have to seriously consider my strategy for getting up it.

It's also amazing how on some of those climbs, a drop back to 12% suddenly feels like an easy recovery section

Mark

rick_chasey

You'd be surprised what you can do when you're actually on the bloody hill doing it.

You may crawl slower than walking pace and gurn like a strangled pitbull but you'll get up there with the right mental willpower - something that often only appears when faced with some ridiculous hill that never considered cyclists!

benno68

I nearly bailed out on one in Porth yesterday, 22% in places and it goes on for a while.

I was in 34 - 25 and on and off the saddle but more off than on.

Really no good for a 42 year old 13 stoner!

I reckon 25% would be getting close to my limit but then again it depends on how long it goes for too.

vorsprung

The only hill I have tried to ride up a couple of times but have failed to do is the one out of Lynmouth, towards Lynton in Devon. It is too steep even with a 34x29 bottom gear.
I have a new bike this year with a triple which I think has a lower bottom gear so I might have another crack at it. Someone will be along in a minute to tell you they can climb this hill no problem on 39x23

I have done all other hills attempted successfully, including the Devils Staircase on the Tregaron mountain road

danlikesbikes

You shouldn't have an issue in getting up those sort of hills.

Most climbing is all mental I know some seriously people suffer and be overtaken by less fit people. Personally I love the pain of a good hill and just don't stop till I get to the top or start throwing up and thats not always the order it happens in.

Training and fitness will help but you need to have the right mental attitude to make it up and over.

Theomerchant

During the tour of Worcester sportive earlier this year that I entered the steepest climbs were; the first, a reasonably long 17% climb and toward the end of the ride a 25% shorter climb which you could opt out of, I was planning on tackling the 25% climb but after doing the 17% climb early on in the ride with my 34x25 gearing I decided against the harsher of the climbs, in retrospect I wish I'd have at least given it ago.

Has anyone else done this 25% climb on this sportive and is it possible with a 34x25 set up? (after about 65 miles riding round the Malverns), think after a springs worth of hill training i'll be giving it ago!!

Monty Dog

The only way to get better at riding hills is..riding hills - vary your gears and technique to get proficient and learn to cope with all terrain.

Chris McG

I have ridden a 35% hill on a 39-27 bottom gear....

... and i'm only 14...

markyone

That hill out of lynton and lynmouth tried it in the summer with 36/25 was not enough had to bail out for a bit then start again so steep.Most hills up to about 22% is do able on my 36/25 but have to grind it out.

benno68

Chris McG wrote:

I have ridden a 35% hill on a 39-27 bottom gear....

... and i'm only 14...

Come back when you're 42 and tell me if you can still do it

On a serious note, well done Chris McG, sounds like a killer hill.

Chris McG

My dad is nearly 50 and can....

although he has a triple...

roger_merriman

Pokerface wrote:

BG2000 wrote:

cougie wrote:

Check out the pics and vid of Mow Cop on the Cheshire Cat. Thats a git - 33% I think ?

Nah...it's 25%, and there's a gradient road sign to prove it ! (not that they're always accurate, but this road's in a straight line, so it was easy to measure).

The problem with Mow Cop is that you've already gained 150mtrs at an average of about 11% before you hit the really steep bit, and after that you're still not at the top !

Mow Cop AVERAGES 25%. I believe there are sections that are steeper, although most of is actually less than the signposted 25%.

No thats peak, it's about a mile and 500ft ish so thats give or take 10% so 25% would be the ramp up, peak.

ShutUpLegs

Chris McG wrote:

... and i'm only 14...

lb?

uphillstruggle

Just back from Tenerife where a wrong turn took me on a lengthy hill which I could only just stay upright on by zig zagging up it- must have been 30% or more since I am quite use to 20-25% hill training.

Often not the steepness but the length which is the worse- Mt Teide- 7% average- 3 hours of solid climbing! Now that was a shock to the system.......

Chris McG

Shutuplegs

14 years old

Chris McG

I live around the north downs and to get better, as some people have said, is just to ride more hills...

Buckled_Rims

Don't forget weather and road surface also play a bit part in climbs. I can climb OK when the sun is out and it's warm, but as soon as it's a bit chilly and damp I struggle on the same training climbs.

I find just after rain when the surface is spread with small bits of grit terrible to climb on. An example climb that goes up to 15% took me 12 minutes in the summer, last time I did it a few weeks ago I was over 14 minutes on the damp surface.

potters1863

Monty Dog wrote:

The only way to get better at riding hills is..riding hills - vary your gears and technique to get proficient and learn to cope with all terrain.

I have been working on my climbing ability, managed to get up to the cat n fiddle from macclesfield yesterday in 39/28 gearing. Always used my granny gear before but having failed on some steep hills in the past, I realized that I needed to put some work in on building up my legs strength.

I have been working on pedaling in higher gears for smaller hills, this is finally paying off, I used to use the granny gear so much that I wasn't building up the actual leg strength enough. There are steeper hills I would still struggle with but yesterday was the first time I have done that climb in 39/28, will be practicing on mow cop at least once a week next year so hopefully the hills will be a lot easier than they have been.

daveydave43

hill climbing ability is a mixture of mental attitude, power/weight ratio and gearing in that order. i know im a bit weird, i actively like hills, so it's half the battle done. 61kg and 5'10, no idea about wattage.

there were some really fantastic hills where i used to live, just past lancaster.
lboro is decidedly lacking in the steep stuff :P

favourite UK climb of mine is kirkstone pass via the struggle. if it's clear up top the views down both sides are great. couple that with a descent into troutbeck and thats a good loop to add onto a ride. did that on a Caad4 with 39/27 minimum gearing.

@ Chris McG, chapeau fella