What am I doing wrong?

lycraholic

I seem to be brilliant at burning out drivetrains. I go through cassettes every couple of months, despite cleaning everything spotless at the weekends. I am literally on my fourth cassete in 8 months!!!

As a poor student this is burning a hole in my wallet and my patience. I would appreciate advice on how to stop this! I am 6 foot 5, 89kg and reasonably well built, am I just putting a lot of force into it? Or is there a more obvious solution?

Also, I'd really appreciate more general advice on bike buying. My chainset is wearing out too, also my frame is too small, is it worth replacing the bike considering I need a fairly crap but serviceable bike for uni AND I'm about to spend £1000 on a Wilier? If so, what should I be looking at? A hybrid?

PS My bike is a Specialised Hardrock from, I imagine, 2007 or thereabouts?

CH1EF

Are you just changing the cassette or the full chainset?

x-isle

Just out of interest, are you running in the no-no gear combo?

Large-Large and Small-Small? These put a strain on everything due to the angle of the chain line.

Other things to look at, is the chain too short? That can put strain on the drive train too.

Other than that, it could be just due to the gritty terrain you ride on? Also how often do you ride?

cooldad

What sort of mileage do you do - 1000 miles a day?
My newest is a year old, regularly used one is 3 years old, and oldest is over 20. All used mainly (99%) off road, plenty sand and mud, sketchy maintenance.

UncleMonty

Why are you changing them so often, are you having problems shifting, does it skip / jump out of gear, chain suck ?

vanamees

1 xt cassette, 5th chain - 5500 km, cassette stil alive. How many chains you have worn out?

lycraholic

CH1EF wrote:

Are you just changing the cassette or the full chainset?

Whenever I've had the cassette changed I've always had the chain changed at the same time. Not the front chainset though

x-isle wrote:

Just out of interest, are you running in the no-no gear combo?

Large-Large and Small-Small? These put a strain on everything due to the angle of the chain line.

Other things to look at, is the chain too short? That can put strain on the drive train too.

Other than that, it could be just due to the gritty terrain you ride on? Also how often do you ride?

When I'm at home I use pretty much all my gears, it's very hilly. When I'm down here at uni, it's much flatter (as you might expect in Cambridge!) and I usually stay on the big ring on the front chainset and 5-8th gears on my cassette.

Chain too short, don't think so.

As for gritty terrain, I ride on roads 99.999% of the time. Whilst there is a lot of crap on the roads, I always clean the drivetrain with Muc-Off/wire brush each weekend.

cooldad wrote:

What sort of mileage do you do - 1000 miles a day?

When I'm at home in the holidays I tend to do around 20-45 miles a day. At uni. it's more like 25ish every two or three days. So I'm using it quite a bit, but not excessively I would have thought.

UncleMonty wrote:

Why are you changing them so often, are you having problems shifting, does it skip / jump out of gear, chain suck ?

Shifting is a bit unresponsive, particularly moving from 7th to 8th gear, but I always put that down to a crap shifter. But I change it due to skipping on the cassette, especially on the higher gears (5-8 ). Since these are the ones I use the most down here it isn't too surprising.

vanamees wrote:

1 xt cassette, 5th chain - 5500 km, cassette stil alive. How many chains you have worn out?

#

The cassette tends to wear out quicker than the chain on mine.

Thanks guys.

Ransaka

Have you tried indexing the gears first? It sounds like that may be all that is needed rather than swapping out the whole cassette.

http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-hel ... derailleur

lycraholic

I had an accident recently and took it into a local bike shop for a quick once over just to see if anything had gone wrong, particularly in the rear derailleur. The mechanic couldn't see anything wrong so I suspect it doesn't need indexing. I wouldn't have the tools/knowhow anyway.

alexj2233

Lycraholic wrote:

I had an accident recently and took it into a local bike shop for a quick once over just to see if anything had gone wrong, particularly in the rear derailleur. The mechanic couldn't see anything wrong so I suspect it doesn't need indexing. I wouldn't have the tools/knowhow anyway.

If you actually read the link (above) you'll find that all you really need is an allen key and a screwdriver. You have to re-index your gears every so often because of cable stretch etc. If the rear mech isn't properly set then the chain might jump between gears and lead you to think you need a new cassette.

njee20

There's something else going on, I get at least 4-5000 miles out of a cassette on my road bike. I don't believe you can be wearing them out that quickly, particularly if the chain's not worn, the cassette cant really wear without the chain, it's the chain that does the damage.

Impossible to say without seeing it, but I don't reckon that's cassette.

schweiz

alexj2233 wrote:

Lycraholic wrote:

I had an accident recently and took it into a local bike shop for a quick once over just to see if anything had gone wrong, particularly in the rear derailleur. The mechanic couldn't see anything wrong so I suspect it doesn't need indexing. I wouldn't have the tools/knowhow anyway.

If you actually read the link (above) you'll find that all you really need is an allen key and a screwdriver. You have to re-index your gears every so often because of cable stretch etc. If the rear mech isn't properly set then the chain might jump between gears and lead you to think you need a new cassette.

I doubt the OP needs any tools, he just needs to use the barrel adjuster at the point where the cable enters the rear derailleur to reset the cable tension. A little understanding of how a bike works would have saved the OP a fortune!

OP...Have you kept all the old cassettes? With so little on road use I doubt there's anything wrong with them.

lycraholic

alexj2233 wrote:

If you actually read the link (above) you'll find that all you really need is an allen key and a screwdriver. You have to re-index your gears every so often because of cable stretch etc. If the rear mech isn't properly set then the chain might jump between gears and lead you to think you need a new cassette.

Would this lead to it skipping on single gears? Not that I have time to index the gears, I'd have to take it in.

At the moment my bike is pretty unrideable, it skips on 5-8. I would take it in again but I am sick of spending so much money on it and this is the reason I am wondering about chucking it in the Cam and buying a hybrid.

lycraholic

schweiz wrote:

I doubt the OP needs any tools, he just needs to use the barrel adjuster at the point where the cable enters the rear derailleur to reset the cable tension. A little understanding of how a bike works would have saved the OP a fortune!

OP...Have you kept all the old cassettes? With so little on road use I doubt there's anything wrong with them.

No I haven't sadly. To be honest I'm a busy guy and I can't really be held at fault if when I take the bike in to whichever LBS the prescription is always a new chain and cassette. I'd like to do a miantenance course etc. but when you're working 80 hour weeks time is at a premium!

meesterbond

You can (to a certain extent) index gears as you're riding - use the barrel adjusters to fine tune the amount of cable the shifters let through until it sits happily in each gear. It's a skill well worth learning as you'll need it time and again (or until someone invents a realistic alternative to derailleurs anyway)...

Couple of things though - do the teeth on the cassette actually look worn - the 'U' shape between the teeth will be elongated if it's knackered. That in turn accelerates wear on the chain... as Njee said, running a stretched chain through a new cassette won't do it any favours, but it sounds like both are barely broken in...

schweiz

Lycraholic wrote:

alexj2233 wrote:

If you actually read the link (above) you'll find that all you really need is an allen key and a screwdriver. You have to re-index your gears every so often because of cable stretch etc. If the rear mech isn't properly set then the chain might jump between gears and lead you to think you need a new cassette.

Would this lead to it skipping on single gears? Not that I have time to index the gears, I'd have to take it in.

At the moment my bike is pretty unrideable, it skips on 5-8. I would take it in again but I am sick of spending so much money on it and this is the reason I am wondering about chucking it in the Cam and buying a hybrid.

Yes as with a badly set up derailleur, the chain line could be causing the chain to rub up against the next cog in the higher (smaller) gears but not in the lower (bigger) gears.

lycraholic

meesterbond wrote:

Couple of things though - do the teeth on the cassette actually look worn - the 'U' shape between the teeth will be elongated if it's knackered. That in turn accelerates wear on the chain... as Njee said, running a stretched chain through a new cassette won't do it any favours, but it sounds like both are barely broken in...

The cassette doesn't look worn really, the teeth on the smaller sprockets look less 'sharp' than they would then new, but not half as much as in previous cassettes.

Funnily enough I took it in a couple of days ago for a different issue, they said the chain was very stretched, they put a new one on but this made the bike unrideable. They then put the old one back on, this snapped and I had to put a powerlink on. Now it skips worse than ever!

cooldad

Indexing gears takes minutes, a lot less time than taking it into a shop anyway.
I think they see you coming and start rubbing their hands in glee - Ka-ching.
Seriously if you can't be bothered, why should anyone else?

schweiz

cooldad wrote:

Indexing gears takes minutes, a lot less time than taking it into a shop anyway.
I think they see you coming and start rubbing their hands in glee - Ka-ching.
Seriously if you can't be bothered, why should anyone else?

+1

http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Books-Zinn-and-the-Art-of-Road-Bike-Maintenance_21839.htm

Costs less than a chain and cassette and takes less time to read the relevant section than going into the bike shop.

vanamees

Lycraholic wrote:

meesterbond wrote:

Couple of things though - do the teeth on the cassette actually look worn - the 'U' shape between the teeth will be elongated if it's knackered. That in turn accelerates wear on the chain... as Njee said, running a stretched chain through a new cassette won't do it any favours, but it sounds like both are barely broken in...

The cassette doesn't look worn really, the teeth on the smaller sprockets look less 'sharp' than they would then new, but not half as much as in previous cassettes.

Funnily enough I took it in a couple of days ago for a different issue, they said the chain was very stretched, they put a new one on but this made the bike unrideable. They then put the old one back on, this snapped and I had to put a powerlink on. Now it skips worse than ever!

All your problems are caused by stretched chain. Buy new chain, chinrings and cassette. You need new chain every 1000 - 1200 km

schweiz

vanamees wrote:

Lycraholic wrote:

meesterbond wrote:

Couple of things though - do the teeth on the cassette actually look worn - the 'U' shape between the teeth will be elongated if it's knackered. That in turn accelerates wear on the chain... as Njee said, running a stretched chain through a new cassette won't do it any favours, but it sounds like both are barely broken in...

The cassette doesn't look worn really, the teeth on the smaller sprockets look less 'sharp' than they would then new, but not half as much as in previous cassettes.

Funnily enough I took it in a couple of days ago for a different issue, they said the chain was very stretched, they put a new one on but this made the bike unrideable. They then put the old one back on, this snapped and I had to put a powerlink on. Now it skips worse than ever!

All your problems are caused by stretched chain. Buy new chain, chinrings and cassette. You need new chain every 1000 - 1200 km

How often? On a road bike?

I get about 2500km out of a chain and about 4-5 chains a cassette. I use a Park Tools chain checker and replace before 1% wear.

lycraholic

Right, I'll index the gears and let you know how I get on.

In any case it isn't that I can't be bothered, it's just that I am extremely time-poor at the moment. I actually really like learning how to maintain my bike, but my degree has a nasty habit of getitng in the way...

vanamees

schweiz wrote:

vanamees wrote:

Lycraholic wrote:

meesterbond wrote:

Couple of things though - do the teeth on the cassette actually look worn - the 'U' shape between the teeth will be elongated if it's knackered. That in turn accelerates wear on the chain... as Njee said, running a stretched chain through a new cassette won't do it any favours, but it sounds like both are barely broken in...

The cassette doesn't look worn really, the teeth on the smaller sprockets look less 'sharp' than they would then new, but not half as much as in previous cassettes.

Funnily enough I took it in a couple of days ago for a different issue, they said the chain was very stretched, they put a new one on but this made the bike unrideable. They then put the old one back on, this snapped and I had to put a powerlink on. Now it skips worse than ever!

All your problems are caused by stretched chain. Buy new chain, chinrings and cassette. You need new chain every 1000 - 1200 km

How often? On a road bike?

I get about 2500km out of a chain and about 4-5 chains a cassette. I use a Park Tools chain checker and replace before 1% wear.

Specialized Hardrock is not a road bike.

schweiz

vanamees wrote:

schweiz wrote:

vanamees wrote:

Lycraholic wrote:

meesterbond wrote:

Couple of things though - do the teeth on the cassette actually look worn - the 'U' shape between the teeth will be elongated if it's knackered. That in turn accelerates wear on the chain... as Njee said, running a stretched chain through a new cassette won't do it any favours, but it sounds like both are barely broken in...

The cassette doesn't look worn really, the teeth on the smaller sprockets look less 'sharp' than they would then new, but not half as much as in previous cassettes.

Funnily enough I took it in a couple of days ago for a different issue, they said the chain was very stretched, they put a new one on but this made the bike unrideable. They then put the old one back on, this snapped and I had to put a powerlink on. Now it skips worse than ever!

All your problems are caused by stretched chain. Buy new chain, chinrings and cassette. You need new chain every 1000 - 1200 km

How often? On a road bike?

I get about 2500km out of a chain and about 4-5 chains a cassette. I use a Park Tools chain checker and replace before 1% wear.

Specialized Hardrock is not a road bike.

I was referring to how the bike is used...to quote the OP....

Lycraholic wrote:

I ride on roads 99.999% of the time

supersonic

Can we have close up pics of your cassette?

boneyjoe

Like how the time poor student has time to "clean everything spotless" every weekend - lol. With two small kids to look after, get them to swimming/ballet classes, dressed, fed, bathed etc, I sometimes don't even have time to sh*t on the weekends.

Sorry lycraholic!

My thoughts for what they're worth: If the indexing is fine, sounds to me like it might your (probably large) chainring. If that's very worn, I expect it will stretch the chain quite quickly which will then mess up the cassette. If the teeth on the chainring look hooked, then that's probably the cause, and it needs replacing.

Once its sorted, def buy yourself a chain stretch checker - only cost £5-10, and are definitely worth it!

Hardtailguy

yeah, it sounds a bit odd, i'm an elite level XC mountainbiker doing 10-20 dirty hours a week, and sometimes my bike only gets washed once in a week.
I'm still on my first cassette this year though, and I personally think it's down to changing the chain every 1,5 months or so, when my chainchecker tells me that it's time.
I would take a look at my indexing if I where you, as it TBH sounds like that's where the problem lies...

lycraholic

supersonic wrote:

Can we have close up pics of your cassette?

Yeah, I'll try to get some soon.

boneyjoe wrote:

Like how the time poor student has time to "clean everything spotless" every weekend - lol. With two small kids to look after, get them to swimming/ballet classes, dressed, fed, bathed etc, I sometimes don't even have time to sh*t on the weekends.

Of course I don't clean everything spotless, my main point was that my drivetrain isn't cocking up because it is permanently left in 3 inches of grime. 20 minutes per week to Muc-off then hose the drivetrain is what I'm talking about.

Hardtailguy wrote:

I would take a look at my indexing if I where you, as it TBH sounds like that's where the problem lies...

Well I've just indexed my gears, and it has helped, however my eighth gear still skips whatever I do. If I get chance I'll have another crack at it but now at least I've got c. 5 gears! So maybe the indexing is the issue. Strange how two LBSs failed to pick it up...

Anyway while I was doing that one of the metal bits on my back v-brake decided to spontaneously blow up, two steps foreward one step back...

mea00csf

I'd change you're LBS, sounds like they're taking advantage.

If you've gone in and said "it needs a new cassette" they can't be fully blamed, but it is fairly unscrupulous behaviour to not advise that all that is needed is a bit of a tune-up.

If you've gone in saying "the gears are skipping, sort it out please" and they've been selling unneccesary cassettes and chains that's just not on.

Agree with everyone else, sounds way to frequent to change chains, let alone cassettes. Get yourself a chain stretch checker and learn how to index gears.

Northwind

I wouldn't rule out that right now you might actually have a worn chain or cassette. I would on the other hand rule out that every time you've replaced it you needed to tbh.

Cleaning the chain, you mentioned wiping it down with a brush, that doesn't do much... Quick and effective method is chain off, into a jar of paraffin, shake it all about, take it out, hang it up to dry then relube- you'll not get cleaner and you'll not get better lubed either. And it doesn't take long, couple of minutes if you discount the drying time. But still even the dirtiest chain shouldn't eat cassettes that fast usually.

TuckerUK

Unless your using one of the £40 odd Shimano chain checkers, best of using a ruler. All the other chain gauges I've seen add roller wear into the mix.

Plenty of articles by Sheldon or Jobst on the subject.