Tubeless ...Why ?????

twedspeed

I read an awful lot about tubeless tyres on this and other MTbiking forums - Just wondered wot the fuss is all about ,
what are the benefits ? Obviously your wheel set will be lighter coz theres no innertube.
A few have mentioned running lower pressure , but why is "lower suddenly better" ???
and wouldnt a lower pressured tyre will make riding uphill tougher & comming back down slower ?
Please pardon my ignorance - feel free to enlighten me .

joshtp

No punctures. No inertube to pop on sharp rocks, and thorns and such are dealt with by sealant. Can be lighter. More supple casing leading to faster rolling and better comfort and grip. And lower pressures mean more grip, more comfort, more stability and longer tyre life.


They do have their cons though.

El Capitano

I asked the same question a few weeks ago. Got a fair few responses, but I'm still not convinced it would be the best option for me. I ride/race XC. Change my tyres to suit the conditons/course and run them at 40+ PSI.

tofu21

The main reason that I went tubless was to reduce the number of punctures. The last time a changed a set of tubeless tyres I found 3 sodding great thorns that I didn't know where there. If I had been running tubes I would have definitely had three flats from those.

When I have had punctures they have self sealed with minimal pressure loss.

I personally didn't do it to lower weight or be able to lower tyre pressures but they are benefits. You can't run really low pressures as the tyre will "burp" and you'll loose pressure and end up on your bum.

It's also more of a pain to change tyres and tubeless don't keep air in as well as tubes. So you need to top them up every couple of weeks.

Lower tyre pressures give you more grip on rocks and other slippy surfaces as the tyre will mold more to the ground. Also gives a bit more cushioning. It's a compromise between grip, rolling resistance and cushioning.

Tubeless isn't perfect but in my opinion it's better than tubes for how I ride.

El Capitano

tofu21 wrote:

Tubeless isn't perfect but in my opinion it's better than tubes for how I ride.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. If it suits your riding style/type/routes, then go tubeless.

stu8975

El Capitano wrote:

I run them at 40+ PSI.

That's because you're using tubes, you'd be approx 5-10psi lower in a tubeless set-up.

LjStronge

I don't see the overall benefits for tubeless - because of my type of riding,

I ride Swinley mainly - so there are not loads of thorns and rocks to damage my tubes. I havn't has a puncture in the last 2 months riding there every week. I realise I'm due one, but even so it will only take my 5 mins to change a tube.

I run my tubes/ tyres at 35 psi and don't have any problems.

I'm sure they are great for other riders in different places, but for me - Tubes are perfect. And this is coming from someone who has Stans rims too

.blitz

Punctures are nature's way of telling you it's time for a break.

Time for a Snickers bar & bit of banter with the passing ramblers: A puncture? No thanks I've just had one

joshtp

I live in Wales.


See?

GhallTN6

I've had UST rims and tyres since May.. and since putting them on, have not touched them apart from probably pumping them up about three times, truly fit and forget.

I've found that I'm far more confident when hitting rocky terrain, my cornering has improved, I'm not bothered about thorny trails, lower pressures (30 psi), have given me so much more grip, yet roll quicker over small bumps. No more pinch punctures, so more dinked rims as happened to my last two rear wheels.

Everyone I know who rides tubeless would not go back.

TBH, I'd go ghetto and see how you go.

largephil

I run tubes... front 30 psi. rear 35 psi.

cant remember my last puncture

I'll stick with my tubes

Northwind

joshtp wrote:

No punctures. More supple casing leading to faster rolling and better comfort and grip.

Fewer punctures, not no punctures. And if there's a difference in "suppleness" I can't feel it, not compared with lightweight tubes anyway.

I'm still a fan though, fewer punctures is fewer punctures. And we all know how punctures are, you never get them on a boring section, you get them in the middle of the descent you've toiled all day to get up just as you're getting into the groove, or just as you're racing home to get in before the thunderstorm, or just as your mates get out of sight...

If you're doing it like I do- tubeless specific rims, standard non-UST tyres and sealant- you save a wee bit of weight. Not much over the tubes I used before, which were as light as you can go without reliability issues or so I'm told, 100g-ish. But quite a good saving over a thick tube.

As for lower pressures, I run the exact same pressures tubed or tubeless, 30-ish usually. I've run lower than that for really silly stuff like superbagneres in france (basically a downhill course made entirely out of loose loam) but you hit the tradeoff of stability and squirm eventually. Heavier or clumsier riders probably find they can run lower pressures and not get pinches, but then, you're still banging your rims when that happens.

Ghetto tubeless didn't convince me at all, it was heavier than my tubes by a fair bit, and was never as reliable as I'd want- big burps are worse than punctures!

mac_man

largephil wrote:

I run tubes... front 30 psi. rear 35 psi.

cant remember my last puncture

I'll stick with my tubes

Ditto. Although big tyres probably help. I've had 2.4 mountain kings on running 35psi for the last year and not one puncture (pinch or thorn). Touch wood. mainly riding around Calderdale and Gisburn forest.

Bar Shaker

Tubes with sealant achieve just the same as tubeless with sealant.

I have only ridden tubeless tyres once and felt that the tyre was much less supple. You needed to run low pressures to get it to deform to the surface. I suspect the carcass is thicker than on a tyre used with tubes.

At least one of our group used to puncture every ride, always due to thorns. We haven't had a puncture in 2 years since switching to Protection rated tyres and slime tubes.

Mccraque

I have two bikes. One is set up UST Tubeless and the other with Tubes.

Ridden for over a year without a flat on the tubeless.

Mended my last puncture on the non tubeless on Sat just gone.

There is no competition in my books.UST all the way. No thorn flats, no pinch flats and tyres that you can adjust pressure wise to suit your riding...

singlespeedexplosif

tyres that you can adjust pressure wise to suit your riding...
so, just like riding with tubes then?
Can't remember my last puncture. Good tyres, good tubes - running between 30 and 35psi most of the time. Tubeless is just the latest in a long line of 'fashion over form' products, like riser bars and baggy shorts.

supersonic

UST do tend to have thicker, less supple sidewalls. The weight is coming down though.

Mccraque

singlespeedexplosif wrote:

tyres that you can adjust pressure wise to suit your riding...
so, just like riding with tubes then?.

Probably should have elaborated more. No - you cannot go anywhere near as low on tubes as you can tubeless.....thus running the risk of pinchflats. At 30psi on a tube, a lump like me tends to pinch flat a LOT.

30psi on UST however.....

chiefgrooveguru

Bar Shaker wrote:

Tubes with sealant achieve just the same as tubeless with sealant.

No they don't - you can still pinch flat tubes with sealant, I've done it! I went tubeless a few months ago and have been problem free so far. If you like the extra grip and cushioning of lower pressures but have snakebite problems with tubes then I'd recommend trying tubeless. If you don't then don't. I haven't noticed a weight saving but I love the extra grip.

Bar Shaker

Mccraque wrote:

singlespeedexplosif wrote:

tyres that you can adjust pressure wise to suit your riding...
so, just like riding with tubes then?.

Probably should have elaborated more. No - you cannot go anywhere near as low on tubes as you can tubeless.....thus running the risk of pinchflats. At 30psi on a tube, a lump like me tends to pinch flat a LOT.

30psi on UST however.....

... just ends up with damaged rims?

supersonic

With low pressures on tubeless I have burped air out whist heavy cornering, and on big front impacts.

bobpzero

what else would you do with a pair of ztr flow wheels on hope pro2 hubs?
just going to have to find out what happens.

roger_merriman

The only punctures I tend to get, though rarely are thorn than snake bites. the tyres I like run fine at 30 PSI

So for myself it's a case of don't fix what isn't broke.

twedspeed

Thanks for the input gents - All told they do sound slightly better and I look forward to going tube less at some point , but on the back of this post I dont think I,ll rush right out today and buy some .
I dont get THATmany punctures and am about 12 stone inc clothing and camel back - I imagine I will more than likely MIGRATE across as things wear out and need replacing.
CHEERS GUYS.

Northwind

Bar Shaker wrote:

Tubes with sealant achieve just the same as tubeless with sealant.

I have only ridden tubeless tyres once and felt that the tyre was much less supple. You needed to run low pressures to get it to deform to the surface. I suspect the carcass is thicker than on a tyre used with tubes.

That's quite possible actually, "proper" UST tyres can be pretty chunky, hence the common weight penalties. That's one of the reasons why so few people use them. But try, say, a 2bliss specialized or hey, just your regular tyre and you won't feel that.

Tubes with sealant don't achieve the same thing at all. They can give a decent degree of punctureproofing but at the cost of a fair bit of extra weight, and they're less effective in the first place.

Bar Shaker wrote:

30psi on UST however... just ends up with damaged rims?

If you're heavy or clumsy, maybe. But 30psi isn't low pressure for most, it's probably about my average and the only time I've managed to ding a rim I was doing something daft I used to run tubes at 30psi, now I run tubeless at about the same.

SDK2007

I run tubes on both of my bikes at low pressures, around 24psi on the front and 28psi on the back, and haven't had a puncture since before May 2008.

I've even ripped tyre walls on my Rocket Rons and the tubes have got me home (before I realised they were ripped), no way could tubeless have done that

Also, tubeless setups are so much heavier compared to tubes & normal tyres.

Mccraque

no damaged rims yet....so am quite happy thus far.

Northwind

SDK2007 wrote:

Also, tubeless setups are so much heavier compared to tubes & normal tyres.

Perhaps in some parallel universe where the meaning of the words "heavy" and "light" have been reversed :? Some UST tyres are heavy. If you don't want heavy, you don't use those. But tubeless on a proper tubeless rim with about 60ml of sealant and your standard tyre of choice will be lighter than the same tyre with almost any inner tube. It's just maths really.

You can get lighter inner tubes but you start to hit the durability tradeoffs harder (in the same way, you can use less sealant and get the same tradeoff).

Anonymous

Northwind wrote:

SDK2007 wrote:

Also, tubeless setups are so much heavier compared to tubes & normal tyres.

Perhaps in some parallel universe where the meaning of the words "heavy" and "light" have been reversed :? Some UST tyres are heavy. If you don't want heavy, you don't use those. But tubeless on a proper tubeless rim with about 60ml of sealant and your standard tyre of choice will be lighter than the same tyre with almost any inner tube. It's just maths really.

You can get lighter inner tubes but you start to hit the durability tradeoffs harder (in the same way, you can use less sealant and get the same tradeoff).

+1

Went tubeless with Stan's Arch and a pair of Crossmarks. It's hard to explain, but there really is a different 'feel' with a tubeless set-up.

And something that no one else has mentioned yet. - A different noise. Especially if running at higher pressures. You get a really nice hollow 'pippy-ping' kinda sound, even riding through leafs gives a different sound to riding with tubes. (I know I'm gonna get the piss taken out of for saying this, but it's true)

Anonymous

i really like tubeless. i havent had a puncture the sealant cant fix since ive ben using the system.

its not particularly light in my experience, i would say the same weight as using quality tubes. as i use specialized tyres which i happen to like using anyway (eskars for the win) which are quite light and the sealant plus rim strip is a similar weight to a good quality tube.

Dick Scruttock

Done hundreds of miles on tubeless tyres and only once have i had a issue and that was the other week. My Nobby Nic is nearing the end of its life and the tread is getting a little low and i got a gash in my rubber that the sealer would not seal. I had to fit a tube and all was good. Other than that the performance has been faultless. Once the tread is a bit lower i will be fitting a new tyre and be back tubeless.