headset and steering

mastermosher

So, J=just got my bike back from a pro lbs after having a full service and new headset istalled as the steering had become stiff and unpredictable. When I go out on the bike, the steering is jsut as stiff if not worse than with the previous old head set. I also noticed that when I went to straighten the handle bars that the sllen bolt that pre ;oads the bearings was loose despite the stem bolts being tight. I undid everything, realigned the bars and when tighteing the bolt to pre load the bearings it would not tighten.
My questions is: could the star fangled nut be fooked. I have spoken to the lbs and told thme this, and will have a look. Just to add what really fissed me off, was that one of the mechanics kept "test riding" my bike as it was such a nice ride!

supersonic

Could be the headset has not been installed coreectly, needs bedding in - really hard to say really. But if the steering is too stiff, you don't want any more preload, assuming the rest is ok.

Was a new crown race fitted? Does the stem clear the top of the steerer? ANd of course you can only add preload with the stem bolts undone.

diy

Sounds like a really sh**e LBS as this is a really easy job.

1. Check that the Star fangled nut is at the right depth for the bolt to reach it, straight and not slipping.
2. Check that there is atleast 2-3mm of gap between the top of the steerer tube and the top of the headset or top most spacer if stacking on top.

If all fine, then the correct adjustment is:

1. slacken the stem clamp bolts,
2. tighten the pre-load cap until the bars are a tiny bit stiffer than you want.
3. tighten the stem clamp bolts
4. loosen the stem cap 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn
5 check steering and play.

If its not 1 or 2, my money is on an incompatible headset with your current frame cups or an incorrectly assembled headset. i.e. if you have play in the set and still too stiff. Or they forgot to install a new crown race.

mastermosher

Sounds like a really sh**e LBS as this is a really easy job.

1. Check that the Star fangled nut is at the right depth for the bolt to reach it, straight and not slipping.
2. Check that there is atleast 2-3mm of gap between the top of the steerer tube and the top of the headset or top most spacer if stacking on top.

If all fine, then the correct adjustment is:

1. slacken the stem clamp bolts,
2. tighten the pre-load cap until the bars are a tiny bit stiffer than you want.
3. tighten the stem clamp bolt
4. loosen the stem cap 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn
5 check steering and play.

If its not 1 or 2, my money is on an incompatible headset with your current frame cups or an incorrectly assembled headset. i.e. if you have play in the set and still too stiff. Or they forgot to install a new crown race.

The headset was the same as the old one, so there should not be any problem there.
There is a gap of about 3mm between the steerer tube top and the top of the stem. My idea was that the star fangld nut is dhot.

supersonic

Does it screw into the SFN? Just use the bolt and check the threads.

DIY, I disagree with your method. There is no need to overtighten, then loosen. Once the stem bolts are done up it holds the adjustment.

diy

You're right that there is no need - it is a DIY extra.. but..

i only mean a tiny bit, plus there does seem to be a small difference of unladen vs laden. and the tiny bit extra allows for the fact that its unladen.

i.e. when you have just serviced it, its not till you sit on it and push it down that everything properly slots in to place. That can be quite hard to do with forx in one hand and bars in the other

diy

mastermosher wrote:

The headset was the same as the old one, so there should not be any problem there.
There is a gap of about 3mm between the steerer tube top and the top of the stem. My idea was that the star fangld nut is dhot.

Not always the case though, sometimes they make minor changes, so I would always replace the crown race with the one that comes with the new headset.

If the SFN is too deep, then get them to reset it. If you want to do it yourself a broom handle and a mallet can work. Or a longer stem cap bolt.

Anonymous

supersonic wrote:

DIY, I disagree with your method.

Always the diplomat, Sonic. Allow me....

Don't listen to DIY.

downhillholty

supersonic wrote:

Does it screw into the SFN? Just use the bolt and check the threads.

DIY, I disagree with your method. There is no need to overtighten, then loosen. Once the stem bolts are done up it holds the adjustment.

Plus 1!

mastermosher

Hi, I assume that the old race was removed from the forks. There was a new crown race with the new headset. I am taking it back to them today. If they cannot solve it then I will have to take it to my regular lbs. Did not do this originally as it was shut for a week for stock taking and extension work. Probably serves me right for not waiting and going against my gut instinct.

diy

I shall continue stubbornly with my method ignoring all this silliness about doing it correctly.

Even if you don't over tighten it you should still slacken the pre-load cap after tightenning the stem bolts as once they are tight the pre-load cap has done its job.

If you leave it tight it will just pull the SFN up over time as you go over bumps etc.

Anonymous

ok, DIY is officially a clumpet.
Everyone take aim...

Chunkers1980

diy wrote:

If you leave it tight it will just pull the SFN up over time as you go over bumps etc.

Shall we have a vote and see if this has ever happened to anyone with a correctly setup system?

How could it happen? A tiny bit a flex may happen but not enough to pull it up over time.

diy

Chunkers, if I had fitted your SFN it would definitely loosen over time

Chunkers1980

TBH, there's no doubt in my mind either.

mastermosher

Picked my bike up today. The result, was that the new headset had not been seated properly and the parts had no grease in them. When i sat on it to ride this time, the steering was buttery smooth.
I was narked at the original shop not doing their job properly and refusing to do any more work on it, that i wrote a letter to their head office and await the reply. Probably would have done a beeter job myself it i was confident in putting new headsets in.

The Rookie

Sound roundly incompitant really, fitting a headset has to be in class 101 (as the Americans would say) for bike maintenance, its not at 102 or 103 level!

I've fitted 4 so far - no probs.

Name and shame?

Simon

Deputy Dawg

Glad its all sorted now. That first LBS is defo one to be avoided. I hope you sent them the bill for getting their bodge job sorted out

mastermosher

Actually i sent the bill to head office. What made this worse, was that the manger of the 1st lbs loved riding my bike with the new headset. Confused.....!