headset 'cup' fitted upside down?

adamdavi3s
adamdavi3s Posts: 280
edited August 2010 in Workshop
Hi guys,

I have just bought this trigon frame as a project, however it seems to me that the top headset 'cup' has been fitted upside down...
The bearing seems to sit proud of the frame and there appears to be more alloy under the seating ring than above.

Also as a secondary question, is there a simple way to identify if I should be using 36x45 or 45x45? Unfortunately I can find very little guidance on this frame (unsurprisingly!)

Sorry for the crap phone pictures.

headset.jpg

headset1.jpg

Comments

  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Top bearing housing doesn't look right - there should be no step. Most IS headsets don't feature a 'press in' insert either - clearer pictures might help. Download the headset technical guide from the FSA website - it has diagrams for all the different models including key dimensions. Bearings should also have size / model marked on the side.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • adamdavi3s
    adamdavi3s Posts: 280
    Sorry the bearing is just literally there as an example. No headset came with the frame unfortunately. I'm thinking that either the alloy insert has been fitted by the manufacturer or the head tube has been over faced.

    I'm just not sure if it can be fixed? Are thinner bearing casettes available?
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,675
    very hard to see what is going on there.

    there are other standards that it could be.

    http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=68

    without clear pictures it is hard to say.

    FSA does produce a template for measuring head tubes, Might be LBS time :wink:
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • adamdavi3s
    adamdavi3s Posts: 280
    Yeah I think lbs might be the answer, I just wanted to try and work out if there was a significant issue with the frameset prior to taking time out to drive down. (the lad in the bike shop over the road suggested it might need facing, at which point I left rather rapidly). The other shop is a bit of a hike!
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,675
    facing is not the issue.

    :wink:


    A clear pic would help.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • adamdavi3s
    adamdavi3s Posts: 280
    I'll try and sort some better photos but I'm not convinced they'll help as as you can see there just doesn't seem to be enough space between the seat and top of the head tube, to fit a bearing!
  • adamdavi3s
    adamdavi3s Posts: 280
    Hmmmm I've been over the park tool website but I think I really need to measure the headtube to be sure.
    The one thing I am sure of is that the bearing seat does have an angled face.
  • edjo
    edjo Posts: 50
    pics not great as has been noted, but it'll be an integrated headset; Trigon do supply these, but you need the dimension from the top of the cup to the top of the frame for the bearing depth.
    As for the angularity...this depends on the frame and the fork. If you're fitting a 1.5 to 1.125 tapered steere, the angular contact angles are different...and can be around 51 on the lower and 36 on the upper. On a road bike, the contact angle tends to be less important as long as it's there. The key is to match the cup and the bearing, so if you don't want a Trigon, just get the spec from them.
  • adamdavi3s
    adamdavi3s Posts: 280
    edit- I have tried contacting Trigon and every one of their distributors but haven't had any response.

    Better photos.
    I've just used a basic integrated headset with sealed bearings to prove the point about the lack of space

    With the headset fully fitted there is a gap:
    DSC_0001.JPG


    Due to the bearing sitting very proud:

    DSC_0002.JPG


    Due to there being very little depth:

    DSC_0003.JPG
    DSC_0004.JPG


    Unlike the bottom:

    DSC_0005.JPG

    DSC_0006.JPG
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    IS headset cups IME are the same top and bottom - that's why the top one looks odd. That said, if it located the top bearing OK, then it's more of an aesthetic problem i.e the gap, rather than meaning it causes a handling problem - the top bearing is more about stopping the fork rattling about - most of the load is taken by the lower bearing.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..