Landlord/tennant issues

jim453

You're right.

Whatever else happens. Keep paying the rent. In fact offer to double your payments. Maybe you could even negotiate a more unfair contract if you're careful.

Seriously though. I'm not suggesting you don't pay again or get behind. The guy can have all his money when he's started providing the service described in the contract. Or made some sensible allowance for not doing.

Your credit score will be fine until it gets as far as CCJ's etc. It won't get anywhere near that far though. Don't worry.

Jesus, it's not always the best advice to bend over and touch your toes at the first sign of problems. It is ok to stand up for yourself a bit.

zanes

That is manifestly what I am not saying (re not standing up for yourself etc). What I am saying is it could be just a case of a mistake (because I really don't believe that the easiest way for a landlord to screw a tenant over is to refuse something that is in a signed contract) and going in all guns blazing could be a mistake, considering the rest of the 6 month period is still to run at this point in time. If she queries it and the landlord does not take any action/is unreasonable, then start getting serious about things

I also love how jim453 has missed it's not the OP who's in the situation. :roll:

jim453

zanes wrote:

That is manifestly what I am not saying (re not standing up for yourself etc). What I am saying is it could be just a case of a mistake (because I really don't believe that the easiest way for a landlord to screw a tenant over is to refuse something that is in a signed contract) and going in all guns blazing could be a mistake, considering the rest of the 6 month period is still to run at this point in time.

I also love how jim453 has missed it's not the OP who's in the situation. :roll:

Is that why in more than one previous post I made explicit reference to Rick's girlfriend, and it being her flat. Are you sure you've even read the thread?

Any way, i'm only saying what I would do. Rick's young lady can do what ever she likes. And I hope what she does is successful.

jim453

zanes wrote:

That is manifestly what I am not saying (re not standing up for yourself etc). What I am saying is it could be just a case of a mistake (because I really don't believe that the easiest way for a landlord to screw a tenant over is to refuse something that is in a signed contract) and going in all guns blazing could be a mistake, considering the rest of the 6 month period is still to run at this point in time. If she queries it and the landlord does not take any action/is unreasonable, then start getting serious about things

I also love how jim453 has missed it's not the OP who's in the situation. :roll:

I love the fact that jim453 did not miss that fact. so wind your neck in Zane.

Anyway, my reply was to percy vera and your post slotted in between.

However, all replies here give advice as to what to do if the landlord comes back with a big negative. That's fairly obvious. Of course the first thing to do is to wait and see what the guy says.

Please do let us know Rick.

zanes

jim453 wrote:

I love the fact that jim453 did not miss that fact. so wind your neck in Zane.

Easy, we heard you the first time . The " " in that post was implying it was a little light hearted comment.

Please do let us know Rick.

+1

rick_chasey

Will do.

jim453

zanes wrote:

jim453 wrote:

I love the fact that jim453 did not miss that fact. so wind your neck in Zane.

Easy, we heard you the first time . The " " in that post was implying it was a little light hearted comment.

Please do let us know Rick.

+1

There was rather a lot that you didn't pick up on the first time Zane so just trying to avoid having to explain things again. Keep trying, you'll get there.

tebbit

Rick, email does count as communication for contract purposes and it can be proven to have arrived, as for previous advice it does sound like the Landlord/Letting Agency has used a proforma without careful inspection. First port of call is the letting agency, excuse me Mr Letting Agency you have provided us with this here contract, and at s.... it says, where is our cleaner.

Do not get confrontational in the correspondence and good luck.

rick_chasey

tebbit wrote:

Rick, email does count as communication for contract purposes and it can be proven to have arrived, as for previous advice it does sound like the Landlord/Letting Agency has used a proforma without careful inspection. First port of call is the letting agency, excuse me Mr Letting Agency you have provided us with this here contract, and at s.... it says, where is our cleaner.

Do not get confrontational in the correspondence and good luck.

I think that's the key. Keeping it non-confrontational.

Like i said, all she's done so far is ask where the cleaner was, and explain why she believes there should be one.

It's been 3 days since that e-mail was sent, but I just want to make sure she's doing the right thing before she starts ringing and trying to sort this out. It's easy to make a rash statement that they take the wrong way on the phone that can undo weeks of good effort.

The landlord gives the impression he's an unbelievable cheapskate, and won't replace little things like the missing knob on the shower/bath tap switch (which renders the shower barely usable as a result). So far, she's kept the correspondance regarding things like that as a question of timing, i.e. "when do you think is it going to be fixed?" rather than "why can't you fix it you unberable man" etc.

I figured that was the best way to be firm yet not actually confrontational. For the moment at least.

rick_chasey

An update:


The estate agent has e-mailed to say that, basically, as expected, they used a standard template for the contract and so made a mistake. They apologised and hope my girlfriend is "ok with it".

What is a little irritating here is that the estate agent charged a £120 administration fee in the process of getting the flat.

My girlfriend's going to go to the estate agent in person tomorrow and make out as politely as possible that she is not ok with it, but will be reasonable and realistic.

Ultimately, she might not have taken this place, had this not been included, and that's a reasonable position to take.

AndyD2574

Rick Chasey wrote:

An update:


The estate agent has e-mailed to say that, basically, as expected, they used a standard template for the contract and so made a mistake. They apologised and hope my girlfriend is "ok with it".

What is a little irritating here is that the estate agent charged a £120 administration fee in the process of getting the flat.

My girlfriend's going to go to the estate agent in person tomorrow and make out as politely as possible that she is not ok with it, but will be reasonable and realistic.

Ultimately, she might not have taken this place, had this not been included, and that's a reasonable position to take.

The contract is legally binding so he cant get out of what was signed for......he owes a cleaner!! I rent a few properties and if its in teh contract......it happens! Get her to stand her ground mate!

zanes

Rick Chasey wrote:

The estate agent has e-mailed to say that, basically, as expected, they used a standard template for the contract and so made a mistake. They apologised and hope my girlfriend is "ok with it".

Well, at least that much is sorted. Now who gets to tell the landlord he *does* owe a cleaner/discount in lieu?

GiantMike

Sounds like the agent owes the cleaner if they were producing the lease for the owner of the property.

Dear Mr Agent

Thank you for your reply. However, I took the flat BECAUSE it had a cleaner. If you would like to break the contract then please let me know what you would like to offer as recompense, otherwise I'll remain on the contract I signed.

I have spoken to a local cleaner and 2 hours a week would come to £XX.

Regards

insert name here

Le Commentateur

Interesting this "standard" template... how many properties have a weekly cleaner? Maybe a corporate let, but not typical I'd say.

Cleat Eastwood

Bonjour. My bro works for the CAB in housing.

Regardless of the letting agency all responsibility for the fulfilment of the contract as signed by both parties lay with the landlord. If the acquisition of the cleaner has been signed for by both parties then the cleaners services should be provided. It is the duty and responsibility of the landlord to instruct the letting agency to fufil the contactual obligations.

A consequence is that the landlord may see the tenant as unsuitable and may reduce the terms of habitation, but seeing as she is leaving anyway....

The law is on your birds side dude.

Homer J

see if she can get some of that admin fee back. i'm sure the agent doesn't want to pi55 off the landlord, who may have a few properties with them

tebbit

If your girlfriend has the landlord's email address copy him in on the correspondence with the estate agent, and pursue getting either the cleaner or a reduction in rent for the value of the cleaner. Keep copies of all correspondence which is hard copy and if they do get nasty, recover any costs via the small claims court.

rick_chasey

Mmm..

We're taking a breather before we decide what to do.


The question is: is the hassle worth the savings?

Should be straightforward to get a little discount.


It should...

jim453

Rick,

It's time to start getting in faces.

@ it up. You need to be getting that admin fee back at the very very least.

mroli

jim453 - you are a lawyer's dream mate "It's time to start getting in faces" indeed!

Rick - I woul suggest it's time to start telling the letting agent that she is not ok with it as she expected a cleaner - it may have been a mistake on their part, but a cleaner was part of the deal that she entered into and therefore she would suggest either a rebate on her rent, or the provision of a cleaner.

See what they say to that - again, I think that firm but fair rather than aggressive and OTT is the best way!

Did you find out what her other housemate's contracts say?

zanes

Rick Chasey wrote:

The question is: is the hassle worth the savings?

Should be straightforward to get a little discount.


It should...

I would think the discount would be the landlord/agents preferred choice, unless they have a cleaner "on the books" for somewhere else. As others have said, might be worth contacting a few local cleaners to get an idea what sort of rate they charge.

sundog

Speaking as a landlord; this tenants lease will be ending sooner rather than later. Sounds like the letting agents are the culprits here but the landlord has the responsibility to manage them.

zanes

Surely even if the landlord chucks her he's still got the same problem with the other tenants in the property, assuming they are all on the same contract?

disgruntledgoat

zanes wrote:

A fiver says the landlord's grabbed a standardised housing contract from somewhere and not bothered to read it rather than this being a (stupid) attempt to rip the tenants off.

Best one was our landlord in second year at uni. We took the contract up to the uni and had one of the student services lot review it. They thought the clause implying the landlord could get access at any time for any reason was slightly dodgy and told us to query it with the landlord just to clarify it.

His response;

"Ooo, yeah, that's a bit dodgy isn't it? Never knew that one was in there"

Top landlord though.

This.

Without having read through the whole thread, you have to be extra careful what you sign and make sure the landlord is in agreement. When I rented my first flat on my own, I made this mistake.

The "contract" I had put in front of me was a photocopy of the first 5 pages of the hosing act with an extra sheet detailing the rent and notice period. Within 2 weeks I'd had a phonecall from the landlord saying he'd entered the flat and was unhappy with the state it was in. When I put to him this was in breach of contract he replied "it's just words on paper".

Stupid stuff like this went on for 2 years unti li'd finally had enough and notified him I wanted to move out. Literally every night there was a different workman in the flat with no notice, he would go ina nd rifle thorugh my papers while I was at work and he threatened to sue me for £2000 for various infractions that he plucked out of the air.

When i moved out I refused to give him a forwarding address and told him to deal with my solicitor. He trawled every letting agent in the county with a bogus story as to why he needed to get in touch with me until the idiots at Belvoir gave him my address. I then had him turn up on my doorstep 3 times threatening me and my girlfriend. He somehow found out where she worked too and turned up there.

In the end it took the police and a solicitors letter to make him go away and he still shouts abuse at me if I see him in the street. Probably not relevant, but there are some complete scumbags out there who view letting property as an easy source of income via exploitation.

jim453

mroli wrote:

jim453 - you are a lawyer's dream mate "It's time to start getting in faces" indeed!

Rick - I woul suggest it's time to start telling the letting agent that she is not ok with it as she expected a cleaner - it may have been a mistake on their part, but a cleaner was part of the deal that she entered into and therefore she would suggest either a rebate on her rent, or the provision of a cleaner.

See what they say to that - again, I think that firm but fair rather than aggressive and OTT is the best way!

Did you find out what her other housemate's contracts say?

I would have thought that a landlord/letting agent who includes services in a legally binding contract and then fails to provide them is more of a lawyers dream.

I'd have this sorted out in half an hour down at the agents.

mroli

Jim453 - really?!

"Tell the guy he'd be getting less and by how much"
"The guy can have all his money WHEN he's started providing the service provided"
"get the local paper, find out what the going rate is for a cleaner, deduct that from the amount"
"Stop paying rent, sounds like you've got this knobhead bang to rights"
@d it up"

You started off blaming the landlord, moved on to blaming the agents, advised holding rent straight off, then said "of course the first thing to do is wait and see what the guy does".
You also said that a tennancy (sic) agreement wasn't worth the paper it was written on and then have jumped all over the fact that the agent made a mistake with the contract and used that to back up the point!

I said you were a lawyer's dream because you were very keen to jump in and start aggressive action right away - people are saying that sometimes this isn't the best way.

AND for example on the mistake of the agent - they are not a party to the AST, they have provided it to the Landlord. He could claim "mistake" in the AST and ask for the offending provision to be set aside, or the AST to be terminated or any number of complicated legal arguments that wouldn't help Rick's girlfriend - esp for a relatively small sum of money.

But all of this is just words on the internet ain't it :P . None of it implies criticism of you or Rick's girlfriend or the agent or landlord or can be constituted as being legal advice! [/b]

jim453

mroli wrote:

Jim453 - really?!

"Tell the guy he'd be getting less and by how much"
"The guy can have all his money WHEN he's started providing the service provided"
"get the local paper, find out what the going rate is for a cleaner, deduct that from the amount"
"Stop paying rent, sounds like you've got this knobhead bang to rights"
@d it up"

You started off blaming the landlord, moved on to blaming the agents, advised holding rent straight off, then said "of course the first thing to do is wait and see what the guy does".
You also said that a tennancy (sic) agreement wasn't worth the paper it was written on and then have jumped all over the fact that the agent made a mistake with the contract and used that to back up the point!

I said you were a lawyer's dream because you were very keen to jump in and start aggressive action right away - people are saying that sometimes this isn't the best way.

AND for example on the mistake of the agent - they are not a party to the AST, they have provided it to the Landlord. He could claim "mistake" in the AST and ask for the offending provision to be set aside, or the AST to be terminated or any number of complicated legal arguments that wouldn't help Rick's girlfriend - esp for a relatively small sum of money.

But all of this is just words on the internet ain't it :P . None of it implies criticism of you or Rick's girlfriend or the agent or landlord or can be constituted as being legal advice! [/b]

Thanks for summarising all my advice. I'm rather proud of it.

Your right about the half an hour though, probably more like forty five minutes.

Seriously though Rick, maybe no need to go in all guns blazing but don't take any crap off these jokers.

I hope it turns out for the best.

rdt

Rick Chasey wrote:

Hi guys.
In the contract she signed however it says the rent paid every month includes "all water, gas, electricity bills, council tax, tv license and a weekly cleaner".

She's pointed this out to the landlord, but has yet to hear from him.

What should happen from here?

Ultimately, she signed the rent with the idea that she'd be paying for a cleaner.

Rick, can you clarify something?

You implied in a later post that the 'weekly cleaner' aspect was instrumental in your GF choosing that house-share...

- So, was the house-share advertised as having a weekly cleaner?

- Or, did your GF only become aware of the weekly cleaner after reading the contract?

rick_chasey

rdt wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Hi guys.
In the contract she signed however it says the rent paid every month includes "all water, gas, electricity bills, council tax, tv license and a weekly cleaner".

She's pointed this out to the landlord, but has yet to hear from him.

What should happen from here?

Ultimately, she signed the rent with the idea that she'd be paying for a cleaner.

Rick, can you clarify something?

You implied in a later post that the 'weekly cleaner' aspect was instrumental in your GF choosing that house-share...

- So, was the house-share advertised as having a weekly cleaner?

- Or, did your GF only become aware of the weekly cleaner after reading the contract?

She asked what was included, and she was told "prety much everthing".


Obviously she checked the contract and was satisfied it was included.

jim453

Pretty much everything?

Quite specific then.

I'm not sure what's gone on here Rick. Sounds like the idea of there being a cleaner only came up after the contract was signed and your girlfriend was reading through the small print.

Anyway the fact remains that the contract does mention a cleaner. Have you decided what you're going to do yet?