Seized Bottom Bracket

Bunneh
Bunneh Posts: 1,329
edited August 2010 in Workshop
I've had this into two bike shops, both can't get it out without heating the frame so it's now my turn!

It's a Campag 1370x24, below is a picture of the offending object and I am wondering what the tool is that I need.

Image029.jpg
Image030.jpg

Ta!

Comments

  • Robert456
    Robert456 Posts: 103
    Is it that the cup is completely seized, or is it that no one has the right tool?

    If it's the seized senario, take at least the wheels off, put the frame on its side and carefully mount the cup into the jaws of a vice being very carefull of the paintwork, use the frame as a lever to undo the cup which is now held by the vice. I'm sure you know this, but be very careful re.thread direction, can get a bit disorientating with the bike in different than usaul positions. Plus be sure if italian or british thread. Hoefully the cup will come out not to damaged.to where it has been clamped.
  • Bunneh
    Bunneh Posts: 1,329
    It's completely seized. The mechanics at both shops were scared of breaking the frame and one claimed to have got very close to doing just that. Vice idea sounds like a good one, although I don't have a bench vice - there's an arrow telling me which way to tighten so I guess it's the other way to loosen :)

    I also grabbed some Loctite freeze and release to help it one its way, paws crossed!
  • father_jack
    father_jack Posts: 3,509
    I had a big problem removing campag BB cups too, luckily after some sweat it shifted. Park Tool BB this one?

    http://biketools.co.uk/product/4/1611/P ... -Bbt4.html

    Try some WD40 spray in the gap leave overnight and try again. Give it a few knocks, redo WD40 leave it overnight...just try a bit every so often maybe it might seep into the thread.
    Say... That's a nice bike..
    Trax T700 with Lew Racing Pro VT-1 ;-)
  • Bunneh
    Bunneh Posts: 1,329
    That's not the one, but I think I have found it! The mechanic refered to it as a 'fag' bottom bracket tool, I thought he was being flippant - seems he wasn't...

    http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/images/produ ... lbig_l.jpg

    http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-Park ... ol-875.htm
  • moonshine
    moonshine Posts: 1,021
    I had a similar problem a couple of months ago when I was refurbing my old winter fixed gear bike.

    First establish if your bb is English or italian thread, as this will dictate which way you need to unscrew to loosen.

    Two shops tried to remove mine unsuccessfully and damaged tools. I managed with the help of a pal who is a pretty high end engineer & metallurgist.

    Lere us how.
    Step I - soak in an acid  for 24 hours (I used coke, but malt vinegar would do) in a plastic bag and in a tuppaware container. To try and expose a couple of threads (down seat tube too)

    Step 2 - repeat step 1 with a tin of WD40.

    Step 3 get right tool

    Step 4 mount frame horizontal in bench vice. Close vice on lower square taper bb axle. Fit bb to upper cup & bolt to prevent slippage. You will need a stack of spacers & stuff to do this. E.g a combination of old engine parts, sockets ring spanners etc. Spend some time with this as it is really important as any flex Gould cause the tool to slip.

    Step 5 you will prob need an extension bar e.g a bit of scaffold pole ( we used a piece of box section aluminium extrusion fro a broken yacht boom about 6 foot long.

    Step 6 one person brace frame and the person with the lever put a steady force on it ( in the loosen direction!)  and it will turn. Take it slowly. Reset the spanner after 1/4 turn & repeat . Di the same on the other side

    Once out, clean the threads well with a solvent ( eg pure acetone) and toothbrush. Chase  threads if necessary 
  • Mister W
    Mister W Posts: 791
    You might be better off with a tool you can put a ratchet handle and a large lever on - http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=9227&src=froogle
  • Avoneer
    Avoneer Posts: 525
    Hi,

    Vice method worked for me with an old campy BB.

    Go careful though.

    You anywhere near Huddersfield - don't mind having a go at another.

    Pat...
    "Campagnolo has soul, Shimano has ruthless efficiency and SRAM has yet to acquire mystique. Differentiating between them is a matter of taste"
  • Robert456
    Robert456 Posts: 103
    Don't like the idea of nearly breaking the frame, I wonder if it really did get close to this, was it Charles Atlas Cycles by any chance?

    Even if you did use heat it may not help at all, alloy expands twice as much as steel which will just make it stuck more, I suppose it may break any corrosive bond though.

    The other thing you might try along with all the other suggestions which look good is the use of ammonia to dissolve the corrosion between the alooy and steel, like Sheldon Brown (RIP) suggests for seat posts, maybe a lot better than penetrating oil.

    I like the look of http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product.asp? ... rc=froogle, this tool could probably be bolted up to the cup using the axle/crank bolt and spacers and then instead of using a rachet handle the tool could be put in the vice and the frame used to turn the cup, or go for the very long lever method

    Can you get at least one of the cups off? This would open the door for distructive removal of the other
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    The best tool for the job is the Tacx T4425 or similar - it screws onto the BB spindle so slippage is minimal. The fact that the lugs are worn on the cups means that the chances of getting any of the flat spanner jobs to stay put is minimal. Alternatively a bench vice or a 2ft pair of Stilsons! FWIW thread is English and find yourself a better LBS - there's no way a decent mechanic would let that out of the shop - good shops have 'heavy tools' and know-how to deal with this stuff!
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • moonshine
    moonshine Posts: 1,021
    I used a flat spanner, but it was bolted in place with a series of spacers, using the crank bolt to lock everything tight& stop movement. Once this was done it was rock solis.

    My metallurgy pal advised against applying heat as it changes the grain structure of the metal and weakens it. He preferred the high strain, sustained pressure approach of a big lever.

    Give me a long enough lever & I can move the World.
  • Bunneh
    Bunneh Posts: 1,329
    Thanks for the comments and ideas :)

    I'm in Manchester Mr Avoneer, quite some distance for me to walk :) My old workbench has no vice on it, although I do have an old, heavy duty vice in the shed, just nout mounted to anything. In regards the tools, seems a lot to spend on something I will likely never use again, that said nice to have a small colelction of cycle tools.

    I've used some Loctite Freeze and release, no effect, but not like I have the right tool :lol: had to try though! One crank arm was a bugger, really hard to remove but a bit of old fashioned 'nnnnnnnnnngggghh' got it removed.

    I've stripped most of the bike down now, just need to get the forks out; must admit I'm loving stripping it down. The back wheel is knackered so I may look at turning it into a single speed winter bike - single speed = less crap to go wrong on wet roads! So new wheels, new single speed chainset and cassette! I'm getting excited!

    Will let you know how I get on! Thanks again.
  • moonshine
    moonshine Posts: 1,021
    You really need a good solid vice. Can you nip into a local garage / engineering workshop? It will make all the difference & make the job simple. I'm not sure you will be able to do it otherwise. It is at least a 2 person job with a vice. 3 people otherwise & possibly sore knuckles!
  • moonshine
    moonshine Posts: 1,021
    You really need a good solid vice. Can you nip into a local garage / engineering workshop? It will make all the difference & make the job simple. I'm not sure you will be able to do it otherwise. It is at least a 2 person job with a vice. 3 people otherwise & possibly sore knuckles!
  • Bunneh
    Bunneh Posts: 1,329
    Have a few friends who may have a vice, will torment them today :)

    Forks are out, considering it looks like nothing was ever done it it's not in too bad a shape. I also found a use for the Black and Decker Workmate which has been under the stairs for ages!

    Image031.jpg

    :lol:
  • Bunneh
    Bunneh Posts: 1,329
    Given me some incentive to keep trying! Looks nice, and your frame before respray looks worse than mine! Definitely worth the effort! Looking at a dark blue too, always been my fave colour :)
  • Robert456
    Robert456 Posts: 103
    Loving the fact that your workmate is set up in the kitchen, having once built an engine on the dinniing room table
  • Bunneh
    Bunneh Posts: 1,329
    The joys of being a single bloke! It's fairly tidy in that shot but I'm terribly lazy when it comes to keeping the kitchen clean.
  • redvee
    redvee Posts: 11,922
    Bunneh wrote:
    The joys of being a single bloke! It's fairly tidy in that shot but I'm terribly lazy when it comes to keeping the kitchen clean.

    +1 :D
    I've added a signature to prove it is still possible.