How to get an 11-34 10-speed cassette onto a road bike?

willharris10

The SRAM Apex is just being released.

In December, Shimano release an update to the XTR with a 10 speed cassette.

My problem is that I want to ride Lands End to John O'Groats at the end of August and my bike currently has a 12-25 cassette. I know from experience that this is not enough for me on a fully panniered bike. So I need your help!

The full kit list is as follows:

Condor Bivio (Cyclocross bike)
Shimano 105 levers
Shimano 105 front compact 34-50
Shimano 105 rear derrailer and 12-25

I'd like ideally either an 11-36 or an 11-34 so what do I need to change? It will need to be a ten speed cassette I guess and that means only the SRAM Apex 11-34 is available. That should do the trick. But must I use the SRAM Apex medium cage rear derrailer as well (the longer of the two on offer) or can I use a Shimano XT rear derrailer which will open up more options to me later in the year in terms of possibly fitting a wider range cassette, though the 11-34 may be enough for good. I'm assuming that my current Shimano 105 derrailer will be too short to run an 11-34 cassette.

Would love some help here chaps. Also, will I be alright using my 105 levers with the Apex rear derrailer?

sungod

as long as your current 105 shifters are 10-speed then they should be ok with shimano mtb rear mechs and the 10-speed xt cassette

rear mechs are rated by capacity, the sum of the difference in teeth between biggest-smallest gears on front and rear

so 50-34 and 12-25 is capacity of 16+13 = 29t

but 50-34 and 11-34 would be 16+23 = 39t

105 (5600) short cage has capacity of 29t, long cage 37t, so even a long cage 105 rear mech would not be enough


so you need to change cassette, rear mech, and put a new chain on too

willharris10

Thanks for that!

So if I'm going for a long cage rear mech, should I just choose a Shimano XT version and use the SRAM Apex 11-34 cassette? Sounds like I don't need to use the SRAM Apex rear mech.

Thanks for the explanation!

litttlestwoo

Arn't SRAM mechs a different pull ratio to shimano?

Monty Dog

Stick to the Shimano rear mech - even Deore would work OK - but you'll need the SRAM 10-speed cassette

willharris10

Any pluses and minuses with the different rear mechs? I've been warned off the "Shadow" ones, as it's for a road bike, apparently they don't run as well.

willharris10

Just been browsing the bike website shops and found that Shimano are bringing out their own 10 speed mountain bike rear cassettes and deraillers at the end of July. Just in time for me!

Shimano XT Cassette 10 Speed M771 11-34 which would be ideal and
Shimano XT Rear Derailleur Shadow 10 Speed M773 Long Cage

This would basically sort me out I'm guessing.

If I buy a new chain, what would you all recommend? For commutting and touring on roads. It's not a mountain bike!

alfablue

KMC X10

salsarider79

That XT mech would still be a shadow rear mech tho....and SRAM Apex rear mech will not be compatable with your 105.

I recon you could get away with a 105 long cage rear mech. You could always look for a 48t outer ring, as I can't imagine you'd need a 50/11 top gear and a 48/11 is a bigger gear than a 50/12.

I'd go with long cage rear 105 IMHO (p.s. I'm a bike mechanic)

Enjoy the ride!

willharris10

That's ok. I never find the bottom cog makes the slightest difference as I'll only ever use it for 10 seconds at the highest speed on a long downhill and frankly, under those circumstance, who really cares? It's the mid ratios and the largest cogs that'll get me up hills. The Shimano 11-34 is probably perfect for touring with panniers. At least I hope so. And should be in stock before I set off! Fingers crossed again.

John.T

I'd go with long cage rear 105 IMHO (p.s. I'm a bike mechanic)

Not going to your shop then. Max cog recomended for a 105 mech (SS or GS) is 27 (28 is safe and 30 if you are lucky). You must use a MTB mech for a 34. Probably a Mega Range one.

willharris10

The new XT 10 speed looks like the way forward, even if it is a "shadow" type. Will take a look. Hope it hits the shops on time! Or I'm stuffed!!!!

Tail end Charlie

Don't know why you say Shadow mechs don't run aswell, I have one and it's great on my tourer. I'd recommend one.

The Mechanic

I have just fitted an 11-32 cassette and XT rear mech to my audax/tourer bike and it work fine. It is 9 speed though but as long as you get 10 speed components it should all work fine. However, I reckon a 9 spd XT mech would be OK for 10 speed as it is the STI that dictates the cable pull and hence how much the mech moves.

maddog 2

CRC had 10 speed SLX cassettes the other day

+1 - you need a Shimano MTB rear mech. A roadie mech won't do. I'd use a short cage version, and just avoid small-small gears.

satanas

^ Agreed. Don't worry about the "10 speed rear mech thing" the current ones will work fine.

freehub

John.T wrote:

I'd go with long cage rear 105 IMHO (p.s. I'm a bike mechanic)

Not going to your shop then. Max cog recomended for a 105 mech (SS or GS) is 27 (28 is safe and 30 if you are lucky). You must use a MTB mech for a 34. Probably a Mega Range one.

I had a long cage 105 mech with a 12-32, or maybe 11-32, I know it deffo had a 32 biggest, and I used the bike for over a year no problems, it all worked fine and the shifting was smooth.

John.T

A few bikes have a slightly longer mech hanger which will let you fit a larger sprocket but 90% will not safely take bigger than 28. Shimano do not recomend a max of 27 for nothing. Your top jockey does look very close to the sprocket Will.
Long or short cage does not affect max sprocket size at the rear, only total teeth difference.

freehub

Well it does not matter I don't have that silly cassette anymore, I use 11-23 on my commuter now, 36/23 is min on that.

John.T

freehub wrote:

Well it does not matter I don't have that silly cassette anymore, I use 11-23 on my commuter now, 36/23 is min on that.

I does matter really. You were giving an example of what worked on your bike. I will only give advice that I know will be correct and safe for any. I may try something more extreme for myself but would never advise anyone else to do so when I do not know their level of expertise. I would say that anyone who needed to ask should not be pushing what can be done.

doyler78

What did you do in the end and how do you find it?

willharris10

Hi there!

The ride was great. LEJOG completed in 14 days (kind of) took two days off (9&10) and jumped on the train from Carlisle to Stirling for a rest, did the Scotish section last year and really couldn't continue after day 8. I was dead after 8 days of nothing but miles and hills. Someone really should flatten England out a bit, it's a disgrace, nothing but hills everywhere. LOL.

Ok, so on the subject of gears! What an adventure that was! In the end I did get what a wanted and this is how I did it:

SRAM Apex 11-32 10-speed cassette
Shimano Deore Long Cage rear mech

And that's it. That combo works with my Shimano 105 10-speed shifters.

And did I need an 11-32 to go with my compact 34-50? Hell yes. I was riding roughly 80 miles a day and carrying all my gear on my bike, so rear panniers, front box, two bottles and frankly, the whole lot plus the bike must have weighed in at around 20-22kgs.

I don’t know what some of you are eating, but it clearly gives you pistons for legs and lungs like superman. Sorry I’m not like you. I can climb steep hills, but I have a maximum power output for long climbs, and if the gears I have demand me to output at a higher wattage, then I end up having to get off and walk. The bigger the gears in my rear cassette, the easier it is to crawl up the hills. And I’m not exactly unfit, but maybe some of the people posting on here haven’t tried cycling a touring bike, fully loaded, across Cornwall and Dartmoor. It’s a different world to riding Sportives and supported rides.

What would I do differently? I’d get a mountain bike triple to go with the 11-32 rear cassette. Maybe, 28-38-48 or something like that. I’m seriously thinking of doing this, as frankly, touring isn’t about top speed it’s about comfort and good gearing. The SRAM Apex 11-32 worked beautifully and I didn’t find the jump between ratios to be too big at all. The only time I used the really small cogs was on downhills and jumping between 11/13/15/17 in two tooth jumps really doesn’t register. So I don’t think this cassette spaces the ratios out too widely. It rode beautifully.

My Cannondale Six is a totally different type of bike, and riding this for riding alone, I’m very happy with my Triple, 30/42/50 and 11-28 Ultegra 10-speed rear cassette. Perfect for me. Maybe not perfect for you, but then people posting on here should really give a little thought to who’s asking for help and what they’re asking for, rather than telling people they are pathetic to need big rear cassettes, what works for you works for you. What I needed, I eventually found, and it made my ride sooooo much more enjoyable. Sigma Sport in Hampton Wick sorted it all out for me. Highly recommended!

willharris10

Thinking of getting this one:

Shimano Deore LX Triple Chainset with Chain Guard
48 / 36 / 26 - 170mm
Available here:
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Shima ... 360038349/

Would this be compatible with my 105 road levers? They are ones designed to run a triple, But would I need a new front derailleur too? I'm guessing I would. Other question is, can I run a 10-speed chain through this chainset?

Thanks all!

doyler78

Great stuff. I had been considering triple myself but assumed my levers are double only however you had me wondering and a search on my st-5600 seem to suggest they are double/triple compatible. I presume this means they can be used with double & triple chainsets as I can't see any way to choose one or other in any of the online shops.

Glad you had a great LEJOG. You can tick that one off.

I understand completely where you are coming from. My 50-34 and 12-27 is fine for everything I have round me. I have no problem (well maybe puff and pant a bit ) getting up any of the climbs we have however I have done a few shopping trips on the bike and 34x27 over 16% with loaded panniers can be a bit of a struggle (even though the section is only metres you absolutely notice it) and I'm thinking of doing something similiar to yourself, only the much shorter Irish version (Mizen Head to Malin Head) next year so I'm thinking ahead.

I might go triple now I know that option is available to me. I will just look for parts over the winter on ebay/gumtree to see what I can pick up.

Weejie54

What would I do differently? I’d get a mountain bike triple to go with the 11-32 rear cassette. Maybe, 28-38-48 or something like that. I’m seriously thinking of doing this, as frankly, touring isn’t about top speed it’s about comfort and good gearing

Agreed. My tourer has 24-40-50 with a 7 speed 13-34 cassette. I'm quite happy with a standard 39-53 double with a close ratio cassette on a road bike, but touring with fully laden panniers fore and aft is a different matter. 24 front with, 34 rear takes a bit of getting used to, but I've yet to encounter a gradient that is insurmountable.
Getting wide range gearing compatible with road shifters will bring back all the problems you had earlier - but I'm sure it can be done.

satanas

If you are converting from double to triple chainwheels, you may need a new LH STI lever, but this depends on what model (and generation) you now have. You will definitely be better off with a new front mech if what you have now is intended for a double. 48x36x26 might perhaps shift better with a MTB mech (all else being equal), but this would not be fully compatible with road STI levers (different cable travel), so you may well be better off with a road triple mech. Something like 105 should work fine. Don't worry about it being designed for larger-than-48T rings - as long as it's set up properly it should be okay.

The other solution is to use a non-indexed front shifter, i.e., down tube, bar-end, Ergo, etc, etc.

I'm not sure what Weejie is talking about in his last sentence, but the only issue with wide range gearing and road shifters is the limited adjustability (and trim potential) with triple STI levers; these can be *very* annoying to set up sometimes. OTOH, you may have zero problems.

Weejie54

I'm not sure what Weejie is talking about in his last sentence

The same thing as you in your first sentence.

satanas

What was that again?

Weejie54

If you are converting from double to triple chainwheels, you may need a new LH STI lever,

satanas

Yeah, anything involving STI and triple chainrings is a PITA in my experience. The MTB levers are nowhere near as pernickety as the road ones, but I prefer to avoid them too.

Road triples and STI seem to require luck - and perhaps human sacrifice - to get them to work, rather than any logical, repeatable procedure. Just say no!

shikyo

Hi Willharris10
I learned that your bike is a 10 speed 105 equipped bike and you have changed the rear derailleur to a Deore long cage. Is the RD for 10 speed or 9 speed bikes.
I have got a Cannondale Cyclocross 5. It is equipped with mostly with 10s 105 components, although the crankset is a FSA compact 46-36T.
I've got a Shimano Shadow XT M-772 derailleur with middle cage. It is for a 9 speed bike, so I am wondering it will work with a 10 speed bike. :? :?
Shimano now has 10 speed XT Shadow (M-773), however they say M-773 isn't compatible with road 10 speed systems.