Can an HPI check be wrong?

Ands
Ands Posts: 1,437
edited June 2010 in The bottom bracket
Or, alternative question, can a 2.7l car engine be 2969cc?

The car is listed for sale as 2.7, my other half has been to see it and says it's got 2.7 all over the engine. The HPI check says it's 2969cc, but doesn't state whether it is a 2.7 or not.

There is a 3l version of this car and I would have thought that 2969cc would be the 3l. Mr Ands says the 2.7 is 2697cc and there must be a mistake on the HPI check.

Anyone any thoughts?
Cannondale Six Carbon

Comments

  • Red Rock
    Red Rock Posts: 517
    Sounds like the car was originally a 3.0L and has had it's engine changed. You need to ask the seller about it's history. Make sure the VIN and the engine (number and size) match the the vehicle documents, otherwise leave it alone.
  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    Looks like a typo and it should've been 2699.
  • Stewie Griffin
    Stewie Griffin Posts: 4,330
    Ask to see the Logbook and make sure the VIN (chassis) and engine numbers match.
  • re-cycles
    re-cycles Posts: 107
    You can check the DVLA website to see what they've got as a recorded engine size...
    http://www.taxdisc.direct.gov.uk/EvlPortalApp/
    (you'll need to click on the vehicle enquiry tab)

    If the DVLA are showing a different engine size I'd walk away...
  • Ands
    Ands Posts: 1,437
    He will cross-check the VIN & engine numbers when he sees it again.

    Re-cycles, thanks for the link - the DVLA website is also showing 2969cc. (The tax rate is displayed as £235pa, CO2 emissions 197g.)

    I know that a 3.0l version that he had been looking at had a tax rate of £400+ pa and emissions were 226g. (He started looking at the 2.7 because the tax was so high). I just looked up the reg of the 3.0l one and that too has 2969cc listed. :?
    Cannondale Six Carbon
  • prawny
    prawny Posts: 5,439
    I've seen a few wrong one's over the years working in motor insurance, it does happen. Really the owner needs to contact to DVLA and get it sorted.
    Saracen Tenet 3 - 2015 - Dead - Replaced with a Hack Frame
    Voodoo Bizango - 2014 - Dead - Hit by a car
    Vitus Sentier VRS - 2017
  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    Ooh! That DVLA enquiry thing was quite entertaining. It came up correctly for every car I've ever had from a 1974 renault 5 onwards.

    Maybe not a typo then and you should be v suspicious!
  • Ands
    Ands Posts: 1,437
    Think I've sussed it now. Just got a load of reg numbers off AutoTrader and ran them thru the DVLA site. All the 2.7s on 07/57 plates are coming up as 2969cc, and those on 08/58 plates are coming up as 2697. At least there are other 2.7s coming up as 2969, but will still check engine/VIN numbers as a matter of course anyway.

    Thanks for all the advice.
    Cannondale Six Carbon
  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    Nice bit of detective work Miss Marple!

    So have all these 2.7 owners been paying too much tax then??
  • MattC59
    MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    Ands wrote:
    Or, alternative question, can a 2.7l car engine be 2969cc?

    Yes, they always round to the nearest 0.1L
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • Ands
    Ands Posts: 1,437
    MattC59 wrote:
    Ands wrote:
    Or, alternative question, can a 2.7l car engine be 2969cc?

    Yes, they always round to the nearest 0.1L
    Then that would make 2969cc either 2.9 or 3.0l then? :wink::D
    Cannondale Six Carbon
  • MattC59
    MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    Ands wrote:
    MattC59 wrote:
    Ands wrote:
    Or, alternative question, can a 2.7l car engine be 2969cc?

    Yes, they always round to the nearest 0.1L
    Then that would make 2969cc either 2.9 or 3.0l then? :wink::D
    My mistake :D I misread it as 2699cc.

    In which case, it's a typo, or the engine has been changed, as my original statement stands.
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • nwallace
    nwallace Posts: 1,465
    If all 2.7L's have been registered as 3L then it's possibly a manufacturer cock up, a manufacturer fiddle (Although it's the wrong way round) or everyone has ripped out their 3L blocks in favour of the 2.7L

    If it is an engine swap that hasn't been reported to the DVLA and Insurance company then it's probably to avoid insurance issues.

    Changing the engine even to a smaller, less powerful one is a major modification in the eyes of Insuers and will put it up even though it's arguably a downgrade.

    Also if you change an Engine your car is 1 point away from a Q-Plate on the DVLA rules, can't remember what else is used to decide if a car is too significantly modified from the original to retain the initial registration, but if Gearbox is there it's a near inevitable change for an engine swap so not re-registering it as a 2.7 when chaiung the engine may also avoid needing to change the reg mark or even in the worst case Q plating it. In a case of needing a new reg mark but not Q plate it would mean convincing the DVLA of the oldest significant part and getting an age relate plate for that,.

    Or you can avoid all that by building a stage specification rally car and getting an MSA log book for it, then the reg is locked to the log book rather than what bits you put on it.


    Edit:

    Aye you round up to the nearest 100ml
    2L engines are between 1950cc and 2049cc
    Although 2049cc would probably be sold as a 2.1L

    And that's before you start factoring in acceptable Engineering Tolerances.
    One of Dad's engines is bored out to the maximum tolerance for a 1498cc engine which I think is near 1600cc
    Do Nellyphants count?

    Commuter: FCN 9
    Cheapo Roadie: FCN 5
    Off Road: FCN 11

    +1 when I don't get round to shaving for x days
  • Ands
    Ands Posts: 1,437
    nwallace wrote:
    If all 2.7L's have been registered as 3L then it's possibly a manufacturer fool up, a manufacturer fiddle (Although it's the wrong way round) or everyone has ripped out their 3L blocks in favour of the 2.7L
    It's an Audi we're looking at.
    Apparently, the BMW 525d shares the same engine as the 530d - both have the 3l engine. I guess it's the same on this Audi - that the 2.7 and 3.0 litre share the same 3l engine.

    How come the power is different? Is that down to the turbo?
    Cannondale Six Carbon
  • re-cycles
    re-cycles Posts: 107
    Ands wrote:

    How come the power is different? Is that down to the turbo?

    Could be many things, compression ratio, ECU mapping turbo, the list goes on and on.
  • carrotcruncher
    carrotcruncher Posts: 45
    Manufacturer detuned - by changing the firmware of the engine management system.
    Manufacturers produce one engine which is used in a range of models and the power and torque characteristics are determined solely by the engine management system software.
    Manufacturers can sell cars in various markets with different tax and emissions regulations designing different engines.

    Examples of models using one engine with different ECU software providing varying specifications:

    Volvo V70 D5 Euro IV available as 126 bhp, 163 bhp, 185 bhp, all sharing the same 2.4 turbo diesel engine.
    Mini One and Mini Cooper available as 90 bhp and 127 bhp respectively, both sharing the same 1.6 normally aspirated engine.
    Ford Focus ST225 and Volvo S40 T5 both sharing the Volvo 2.5 turbo petrol engines, with different power outputs controlled by the engine management system.

Categories