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Wheels and Tubes Slipping on Rims, HELP!

willhartwillhart Posts: 41
edited July 2010 in MTB workshop & tech
I have been riding my Specialized FSR XC Pro for about 18 months now, I have recently stepped up both the regularity and the severity of my riding, I now ride technical trails about 3-4 times per week.

Up until the last few weeks I have had no problems with the bike. Was even still on the origional tyres and tubes, albeit with a few repair patches!

I have punctured 3 inner tubes in the last week caused by the valve seperating from the tube, both the old (origional) tubes and also one brand new tube. I have noticed that after a hard ride the valves are tilted at an angle, the front wheel in the direction of braking, the rear in the opposite direction (from climbing). I am sure the tyres are slipping on the rims.

I thought that my very well used origional specialized tyres were probably the cause, so I have just bought a brand new set of tyres.

Went for a ride tonight and whilst I was very happy with the grip from my new boots they still slipped on the rims and the valves still had not stayed straight at the end of the ride.

I am running prety high tyre pressures in an attempt to avoid the problem but that isn't helping either, and I am suffering with front end grip on the loose as I am running my tyres rock hard!

My Rims are DT Swiss 445D's (ERD 543, ETRTO 559x17mm)

My Tyres are all 2.2's the new ones are Mountain Kings.

I find it very easy to change tyres on these rims, and never need a to use a tyre lever at all. Dont know if that is relevent! My rim strip is the origional plasitic strip provided fitted with the bike.

If anybody can offer any advice as to what is causing this problem and how to cure it I'd be really greatfull, I have my first 4hr Enduro in 1 week and want to solve it in time for my final training rides this week.

Many Thanks,

Will Hart. :?

Posts

  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 50,675 Lives Here
    are you using tubes with thread metal valve stems or the ones with the metal to rubber stem?

    and you are using the correct sized valve stem or inset?
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • Normally tyres stretch and become looser with use but this is just taking the piss!

    Have you tried lining your rims with an old inner tube cut up?
  • tri-sexualtri-sexual Posts: 672
    the clue is in your description when you say that tyre changes are easy and can be done without tyre levers, the tyres are PROBABLY too loose for the wheels you are using. even though tyre sizes and wheel sizes are supposed to be universal (ie a 26" tyre should fit a 26" rim- i know that width also comes into play), there can sometimes be large variations between different manufacturers interpretations in sizes. sometimes a tyre can be too loose or sometimes it can be so tight that it is almost impossible to fit even though the size you have chosen is correct.
    this is also true for tyre widths, i have seen 2.1" width tyre that are much wider than a 2.3" tyre from a different manufacturer.
  • nferrarnferrar Posts: 2,511
    Hmm odd, although there is some variation in sizing there shouldn't be enough that a new tyre is loose enough to slip. I would to a couple of wraps of electrical or rim tape to pad it out a bit, should make the tyre a tighter fit at least. Also make sure the tubes you're using go up to 2.2 (or higher) and aren't some 1.0 commuting tubes or something.
  • gezzzagezzza Posts: 324
    tri-sexual wrote:
    the clue is in your description when you say that tyre changes are easy and can be done without tyre levers, the tyres are PROBABLY too loose for the wheels you are using. even though tyre sizes and wheel sizes are supposed to be universal (ie a 26" tyre should fit a 26" rim- i know that width also comes into play), there can sometimes be large variations between different manufacturers interpretations in sizes. sometimes a tyre can be too loose or sometimes it can be so tight that it is almost impossible to fit even though the size you have chosen is correct.
    this is also true for tyre widths, i have seen 2.1" width tyre that are much wider than a 2.3" tyre from a different manufacturer.

    All my tires are a nice loose fit and i have never had this problem
  • tri-sexualtri-sexual Posts: 672
    gezzza wrote:
    tri-sexual wrote:
    the clue is in your description when you say that tyre changes are easy and can be done without tyre levers, the tyres are PROBABLY too loose for the wheels you are using. even though tyre sizes and wheel sizes are supposed to be universal (ie a 26" tyre should fit a 26" rim- i know that width also comes into play), there can sometimes be large variations between different manufacturers interpretations in sizes. sometimes a tyre can be too loose or sometimes it can be so tight that it is almost impossible to fit even though the size you have chosen is correct.
    this is also true for tyre widths, i have seen 2.1" width tyre that are much wider than a 2.3" tyre from a different manufacturer.

    All my tires are a nice loose fit and i have never had this problem

    agreed, its very rare thats why i highlighted PROBABLY, a tyre that can be removed without tyre levers (clinchers) is too loose IMO-(though may not be a problem in the vast majority of cases), a tyre should bed itself to the rim when inflated to hold the whole assembly together
    when the grip/adhesion of the tyre tread is more than that of the contact area between the inner tube and the inside of the tyre, it can result in the problem the OP describes.

    try thicker rim tape or pad it out with electrical tape and clean the inner tube and the tyre internals with alcahol wipes (or soapy water) to remove the fine "talc" which is often present on inner tubes-leave to dry before reassembling. if that doesnt solve your problem it may be worth trying a slightly wider inner tube
  • cavegiantcavegiant Posts: 1,546
    I used to have this problem too, not sure how I fixed it.

    So no use, but at least you know you arnt alone =-)
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?
  • Delta5Delta5 Posts: 264
    Your brakes are too good and you pedal too hard . . :D

    Never had this problem myself but seriously, here's a guess . . . even if the tyres are a bit loose the pressure you are using should push the bead firmly against the rim and prevent any slippage. Could there be anything on the beads / rims that would allow slippage? Soap residue, grease, dust, even excess talc from fixing punctures . . ?

    I'd try this - take off the tyres and give the rims and tyre beads a bl**dy good clean with hot very slightly soapy water, scrub :x , rub, rinse with clean hot water, dry thoroughly, maybe even wipe over with iso alcohol . . . check there is some 'stickiness' between bead & rim.
    My abundant supply of MTFU is reserved for use in dry, sunny conditions.
  • willhartwillhart Posts: 41
    Thanks for all the advice.

    I forgot to mention that I am a very heavy rider, 18.5 stone! Im sure that is a contributing factor!!!!!!

    I will try cleaning my rims as is suggested as that could be the problem, but still seems very strange that it is so bad.

    I might even try to roughen up the inside of the rim with a bit of fine grade emmery paper, just where it contacts the tyre, not the tube.

    Any more suggestions very welcome.

    Thanks again.
  • asdfhjklasdfhjkl Posts: 333
    Do you know what your tyre pressures are? I used to use tyres (mountain kings, coincidentally) which sometimes moved on my front wheel when using low pressure (20 psi). Was never a problem after I upped it to the high twenties.

    I don't think it's anything to do with how easy you find the tyres to get off. Deflate my tyres and I could talk them into coming off the rim! :lol:
  • ESHER SHOREESHER SHORE Posts: 818
    My Tyres are all 2.2's the new ones are Mountain Kings.

    I recently setup a new bike for a customer using Conti Rubber Queen tires with Stan's No-Tubes, no matter what we did, the tires were too loose a fit on the Stan's ZTR Flow rims and would lose pressure over night, and leave him with flat tires and a puddle of Stan's solution on his garage floor

    we switched the tires to Specialized Control Purgatory (Front) and Eskar (rear) and he has not touched his wheels in the 4 weeks since we installed them with Stan's solution

    perhaps the Conti tires are simply a very loose fit on common 26" rims?
    Call 01372 476 969 for more information on UK\'s leading freeride park - Esher Shore www.eshershore.com
  • willhartwillhart Posts: 41
    I know that the only COntinental tyres designed for tubeless are the ones denoted UST, if they were the normal mountain queens then they might not be designed for tubeless.

    I have the "Protection" versions, they fit as tightly as my old Specialized Captains, the problem began with the captains anyway, the new tyres were supposed to cure the problem.

    I am going to buy some new larger inner tubes today and heavily clean the rims up. Will then report back my results after my next training ride.

    Thganks again for all the responses.
  • cavegiantcavegiant Posts: 1,546
    I was a similar weight when it happened too.

    I will try and remember what I did to fix it, at worst I would literally slice off the air valve and the tyre rotates!
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?
  • ride_wheneverride_whenever Posts: 13,279
    Have you checked the valve hole?

    My guess would be the plastic rim tape, usually it is fine, but the cheapest thing to try for you would be some good quality fabric rim tape, velox or schwalbe. [/code]
  • Delta5Delta5 Posts: 264
    willhart wrote:
    I know that the only COntinental tyres designed for tubeless are the ones denoted UST, if they were the normal mountain queens then they might not be designed for tubeless.

    I have the "Protection" versions, they fit as tightly as my old Specialized Captains, the problem began with the captains anyway, the new tyres were supposed to cure the problem.

    I am going to buy some new larger inner tubes today and heavily clean the rims up. Will then report back my results after my next training ride.

    Thganks again for all the responses.

    Willhart, any luck yet? Did you find a solution to this problem?
    My abundant supply of MTFU is reserved for use in dry, sunny conditions.
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,804
    Have you tried a little natural soap solution? Same stuff they use on car tyres, when it dries the soap helps glue the tyre to the rim, and as long as its a firm contact, water won't get in to re dissolve the soap. I've not done this on tyres but have on hoses.

    Simon
    Current steed - Whyte T129, 2013 frame, mongrel Revelations, Giant dropper, Stans S1 wheelset. 12, Magura Trail Sport brakes, 1x11. 12.8Kg
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