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hot spots, numb toes, foot cramp: is there a solution?

crimsondynamocrimsondynamo Posts: 246
edited June 2010 in Road buying advice
I wear 2003 sidis (ratchet buckle + two "techno" plastic string winders), with wafer thin insoles, which produce the above symptoms beyond 40 miles - fewer on v. hot days.

I thought I'd experiment with Specialized BG insoles (from my mtb shoes) in my sidis, which gained my maybe 10 miles before the pain began.

Today I tried my Specialized mtb shoes and insoles (which required me to ride with spds), and again, beyond 50 miles I had to massage my feet every 10/15 miles. I did 100 miles, so my feet were in bits by the end.

Q1. Is it reasonable to hope to ride that sort of distance with no pain?

Q2. If yes, must I conclude that my feet are not Sidi or specialized shaped (i.e is there a difference between 2003 an 2010 sidis, and/or between new Spesh mtb and road shoes)?

Q3. My sidis and sspecializeds feel perfectly fine sitting at home or for the first 40 odd miles, how can I tell what other brands will fit the bill?

The foregoing has been thrown into sharp contrast by my new assos uno shorts, which throw all my attention away from the pain in my backside to the pain in my feet.

Any advice gratefully appreciated.

Posts

  • redddraggonredddraggon Posts: 10,862
    These foot issues are normally caused by one of the following:

    1. Shoes are wrong size/shape for your foot
    2. You have the shoes fastened too tight
    3. Cleats set up wrong

    In theory you should be able to ride all day without your foot issues.
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  • softladsoftlad Posts: 3,513
    this might sound like a silly question, but do you fasten your shoes while you are sitting or standing..?

    If you do it sitting down, try standing. Your feet 'spread' slightly when your weight is on them, which will effectively reduce the tension you put on your straps. If you fasten your shoes when sitting down, they are probably already too tight as soon as you stand up.....
  • MRaddMRadd Posts: 205
    +1 for the above...

    Double check the sizing of your shoes. Always try them on with the thickest socks you are likely to wear. I use Endura winter ones.. and then Endura summer ones (in the summer) when your feet sweel, this compensates.

    With the shoes too tight section. I assume you take your shoes off to massage them? Try leaving them on. Taking them off will only increase the swelling making it harder to get your feet back in. Maybe after 10-15 miles, loosen off the straps just a touch.

    With the cleat fitting, this is hugely important. Performance Cycles offer a Keo fitting service, well worth the money!
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  • ride_wheneverride_whenever Posts: 13,279
    shoes too tight.

    Sidis shouldn't move even when done up loosely. I find that i can ratchet them up until all the blood is out of my feet, but it is entirely unnecessary and that they stay in place when done up lightly so they just start to grip my shoes.
  • I have been erring on the side of looseness where straps are concerned, so that's not the issue. I certainly couldn't sprint in them. My sidis are at least a size bigger than normal.

    My cleats (until today Look pp396s) are perfectly positioned having succesfully adjusted them to eliminate knee pain.

    I assume then that it's a question of foot shape. What's the broadest "last" at the forefoot, where I suffer? I have pretty high arches too.

    Asking advise from a shop is futile, as no-one in Edinburgh stocks all the brands and will advise impartially which is best tailored for me.,
  • on-yer-bikeon-yer-bike Posts: 2,974
    I had the same problems. I now wear Sidis size 44 but Im actually 42 in normal shoes and they aren't too big. The thing that solved it for me was moving the cleats as far back as they can go. I tried CycleFit insoles, Specialized insoles and they didn't help. Try moving your cleats right back.
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  • Thanks for the advice. Fore/aft cleat adjustment hadn't occured to me so I'll try that next. At the moment they are jammed forward.
  • on-yer-bikeon-yer-bike Posts: 2,974
    Thanks for the advice. Fore/aft cleat adjustment hadn't occured to me so I'll try that next. At the moment they are jammed forward.
    I would be really interested to know if it works, thanks.
    Pegoretti
    Colnago
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  • galatzogalatzo Posts: 1,295
    I had badly aching feet for the last 15miles of the Dragon Ride (and first ride in my Uno's was a dream too). I have Spesh carbons and have never had an issue until now, although never done a ride that long before. Had them about 3 years and recently thought they may be a bit big. This would tie in with a problem I had with ski boots. I had a very similar ache after a days skiing and that turned out to be because I had been using boots a size too big (for years!). I can't agree with shoes should be comfy all day long, they have a hard carbon base a bit like a ski boot which even with a sidas insert starts to ache after a while. Sidas insoles in skiboots are a must so I may try the same with my cycling shoes. I'm doing the Otzal Radmarathon which could take over 13 hours so I need to find a solution for this too.
    25th August 2013 12hrs 37mins 52.3 seconds 238km 5500mtrs FYRM Never again.
  • rb1rb1 Posts: 18
    not sure this is good advice, but make sure the soles aren't worn out. i had a pair that had start to flex (i think - did not measure displacement) and the pain was terrible, but switching to a new pair of sidis solved the problem.
  • chrisw12chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    rb1 wrote:
    not sure this is good advice, but make sure the soles aren't worn out. i had a pair that had start to flex (i think - did not measure displacement) and the pain was terrible, but switching to a new pair of sidis solved the problem.

    Well it sounds like good advice to me.

    I've had four or five different pairs of road shoes and put very simply if the sole is stiff I'm fine but if I can flex the sole with my hands then I get major hot spot problems.

    Don't know why, but it works out to be quite expensive.
  • ADIHEADADIHEAD Posts: 575
    Galatzo wrote:
    I had badly aching feet for the last 15miles of the Dragon Ride (and first ride in my Uno's was a dream too). I have Spesh carbons and have never had an issue until now, although never done a ride that long before. Had them about 3 years and recently thought they may be a bit big. This would tie in with a problem I had with ski boots. I had a very similar ache after a days skiing and that turned out to be because I had been using boots a size too big (for years!). I can't agree with shoes should be comfy all day long, they have a hard carbon base a bit like a ski boot which even with a sidas insert starts to ache after a while. Sidas insoles in skiboots are a must so I may try the same with my cycling shoes. I'm doing the Otzal Radmarathon which could take over 13 hours so I need to find a solution for this too.

    That's really spookey, the only time I've had a problem with foot pain was on the Dragon Ride last year. I was convinced the cleats had penetrated the soles and were cutting into my feet :lol: Afterwards I was amazed to find nothing was wrong, have completed numerous sportives since with the same shoesand no problems. Weird hey?
  • simon johnsonsimon johnson Posts: 1,064
    Could be a foot pronation/supination issue for which you might need wedges (Bikefit). You may benefit from custom insoles and, as mentioned, altering the cleat setup (stance width, angle, backwards-forwards). Some padding to support the metatarsal? Shoes specifically designed for wider feet- if you have wide feet?

    Also, is this experienced in both feet? Outside of foot, inside etc etc Possible leg length discrepancy? Check my past posts, I know exactly how you're feeling!

    Most importantly, in my experience, most changes should be mm at a time and ONE thing at a time. Which may seem like common sense but took me a while to realise.

    Hope that you can resolve this; keep us posted :D
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  • Time to report back:

    70 miles today in reasonably hot weather with cleats full astern - dramatic improvement in comfort. Not perfect, but emminently bearable.

    I'll continue to monitor the situation, but it's looking good. Thanks all for the good advice.
  • paul64paul64 Posts: 278
    If you start to think it's a question of shoe width (and I'm not suggesting it is) then Sidi would not be my first choice, too narrow for me. It took a while to break in my Specialized BG shoes which I found uncomfortable after a while but thaknfully no problems as the miles and regular rides built and Spec are usually recommended for wider feet. However, Northwave are my favourite in this regard and I use mine for summer as they are cooler when the temps go up. Means I have a Spring/Autumn (Spec) and summer (NW) pair of shoes. I have two off-road pairs of Northwave too. Couldn't tell you how they will match up to other brands in other respects.
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