Nervous on first road bike, braking & tucking down - adv

rossyl

Hi All!

So I've got a racing bike, got it all set up. Only had MTB's before.

But I'm used to an upright position when riding, and don't feel right tucking down. The consequence is I cannot brake properly as I can reach the end of the brake lever.

Also, the seat is set at the right position, yet when it comes to stopping at traffic lights etc, I can only get my tiptoes on the ground and am rather unsteady.

If anyone has any tips I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks,
R

softlad

rossyl wrote:

Also, the seat is set at the right position, yet when it comes to stopping at traffic lights etc, I can only get my tiptoes on the ground and am rather unsteady.

get off the saddle...

verloren

To amplify a little on what Softlad said, as you come to a halt put your weight on your right leg (so you're effectively standing on the right pedal) and move forward on the bike until you're clear of the saddle and can put your left foot down easily. It might feel a little odd at first, but it quickly becomes so natural that I had to think how to describe it!

While you're getting used to your new position you might want to stay away from the drops. You should be able to brake perfectly well from the hoods, and you're likely to feel more secure there.

sungod

you should be able to ride on the hoods and reach the brake levers, if you watch people on road bikes, this is how they're riding a lot of the time - not on the drops

if you can't do this, then the bike isn't set up for you correctly

some levers have a reach adjustment, depends on model

if you are pulling the levers and not getting much braking, the brakes are probably not set up right

when stopped at lights i usually aim to get my foot on the kerb, otherwise either lean the bike to lower the saddle, or come forward off the saddle - in all cases i'm only unclipping the left foot, right stays clipped

who set the bike up? tbh unless they put the bike on a stand and checked your position as they made each adjustment then the set up is probably wrong

unixnerd

You don't use the end of the lever to brake unless you're down on the drops. In traffic put your hands on top of the hoods and brake with the upper part of the lever.

Your saddle position sounds about right.

rossyl

Thanks vey much for your resaponses, I'll practice dropping off the saddle.

As for not using the drop handles, and trying to brake with the hoods. I find that the "leverage" isn't really there to properly squeeze the braking. I can only lightly come to a stop. Is that an issue with the brakes, or me being rubbish?

I've got Shimano soarers.

furrag

I was in the same boat as you up until recently. Having lived on a downhill bike for the past decade, I bought a road bike - what a shock!

I had no faith in the thin tyres, it took me a while to get used to the vibrating roads and I found the gear shifting/ braking weird. It was all alien to me. I've done near 700 miles on mine now, and while I think saddle time is obviously the way to adapt, I still have no confidence getting on the drops. I bought a shorter stem and bars with shallow drops and it seems to have solved the problem as I don't have to duck down as much. I'm in a less aerodynamic position, but it'll help in the transition in the meantime.

What shifters do you have? If they're Shimano, depending on which one, there's either a screw which can reduce the reach, or you could buy a 4 or 8 degrees shim. Where are your hands when you ride? On the brake hoods? Your brakes should be set-up so that it doesn't need much leverage to brake.

I too can only get my tiptoes on the floor when stopped, so I lean the bike slightly until I'm stable on my foot. Having the saddle at the right height is much more efficient and if everything else is set-up correctly will eliminate knee and hip pain.

Try having a read of this: http://www.jimlangley.net/crank/bikefit.html

CarleyB

rossyl wrote:

Hi All!

So I've got a racing bike, got it all set up. Only had MTB's before.

Also, the seat is set at the right position, yet when it comes to stopping at traffic lights etc, I can only get my tiptoes on the ground and am rather unsteady.

Thanks,
R

That happened to me, In fact my feet can't touch the floor when I'm on the saddle and I nearly fell off at the traffic lights. I am sure I could hear everyone chuckling in their cars at the traffic lights

joosed

rossyl wrote:

As for not using the drop handles, and trying to brake with the hoods. I find that the "leverage" isn't really there to properly squeeze the braking. I can only lightly come to a stop. Is that an issue with the brakes, or me being rubbish?

I've got Shimano soarers.

You could tilt the handlebars upwards a little to allow more leverage on the brakes from the hoods. It's what I did on my singlespeed - it means I cannot reach the brakes from the drops but I very rarely ride on the drops anyway.

unixnerd

You might find something like this helps:

rossyl

is this what I need to do?

http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=14721046

rjh299

rossyl wrote:

is this what I need to do?

http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=14721046

Only if you actually have trouble reaching the levers. In the drops you do get more leverage for braking so can brake harder and therefore stop faster but on the hoods you should get enough leverage to stop from a decent speed.
If it's a matter of reach then yeah adjust them, but if it's just getting use to new system that feels different to MTB then just give it time

sungod

can you post a pic of your bars? - side view

when you operate the levers, how far do you need to move them before you get effective braking? if it's a long way then use the barrel adjuster on the brakes to move the pads closer to the rims - ideally you want them just a smidge from the rim, not a huge gap

verloren

On brake force, you could try swapping the brake pads. I lived very happily with the stock Shimano pads for several years, but then got a new bike with SwissStop pads and realized that what I'd been using was pretty woeful! Without haivng to exert more force you'll get a lot more braking.

on the road

softlad wrote:

rossyl wrote:

Also, the seat is set at the right position, yet when it comes to stopping at traffic lights etc, I can only get my tiptoes on the ground and am rather unsteady.

get off the saddle...

+1

rossyl

verloren wrote:

To amplify a little on what Softlad said, as you come to a halt put your weight on your right leg (so you're effectively standing on the right pedal) and move forward on the bike until you're clear of the saddle and can put your left foot down easily. It might feel a little odd at first, but it quickly becomes so natural that I had to think how to describe it!

Thanks, practiced that, will take getting used to and helps with everything.

rossyl

sungod wrote:

can you post a pic of your bars? - side view

when you operate the levers, how far do you need to move them before you get effective braking? if it's a long way then use the barrel adjuster on the brakes to move the pads closer to the rims - ideally you want them just a smidge from the rim, not a huge gap

Thanks for replying.
I'd say I have to press the lever halfway for effective braking.

Here are some pics...



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rake

getting used to riding folded down will add about 4mph to your average.aero bars can make a big difference. i sometimes ride elbows resting on the bar top is much faster but bumps are a problem.more riding will make it more normal.

Erudin

I had the same problem reaching the brakes from the drops with anatomic bars like yours on my bike. The solution that I found worked (via Competitive Cyclist) was changing to wider shallow drop standard curve bars which made reaching the brakes from the hoods or drops easy, spent a while adjusting them on on a ride before taping the bars.

It took me a couple hundred miles riding to get used to drops again, now feel really comfortable on the road bike. I also did some pilates and yoga back exercises to get more flexible and stronger.

Tried a couple of different stems as well and found a longer stem than I had gave better balance and handling.

Work on riding and braking in the drops, I would hate to be uncomfortable in the drops as there are loads of steep hills round me, plus you get the speed benefit rake mentioned.

Oval Concepts Shallow Drop Handlebar Review

YouTube link Competitive Cyclist Reviews FSA Compact Handlebars

Stretching Exercises

furrag

Bizarre; not only do we share the same issues, but you have the same bike as me! Tri&Run make custom fit bikes; I'm assuming that - like me - you picked this up second hand?

Pressing the lever halfway sounds too spongy. I had to do that and was terrible when the speed got up as I would be on the brakes as well which is detrimental to handling. If the wheels are true so your brakes don't rub, you should be able to brake with your index finger alone when on the hoods, and the response should be almost immediate. So bring your bikes brake blocks closer to the rims either by using the barrel adjuster or tightening the cable. What brakes do you have? I found the Tektro R350's I had where shite, so I chucked them for Ultegra and some Kool Stop salmon pads which are infinitely better.

How wide are the bars? You want them the same width as your shoulders. The link from my previous post explains more. You can also get bars with shallower drops, so they're so far to drop onto. How do you find reaching for the hoods? Are your elbows bent at all?

Out of interest, where do you live?

sungod

you could move the shifters further down the bars, if it doesn't make the overall reach too far, the distance to levers does look wrong from the drops, so shims might be the better option

if you are pulling halfway before useful braking then check the pad clearance - whatever the setting you should *not* be able to bottom out the levers against the bars, if you can then you are missing out on braking force

skyd0g

You could also try rotating the bars a few degrees by loosening the stem-clamp & then re-tightening.

Looking at the photo, I'd rotate the bars a few degrees forward - (so that the brake levers are vertical) & see how that feels.

Skippy2309

I actually sit on the bar when I stop, I cant touch the floor at all from my saddle...

I actually feel more stable on the drops (I have quite deep drops) especially at speed. Although I have cross top brakes. so come up to brake, although generally just coming up slows me enough

you may need to tweak the brakes, can you get a picture showing the pads clearance from the rim? I have about 1-2mm either side. (you may have an adjuster screw so you can tweak it)

PeeDee

Hi Rossy

Welcome to the world of road biking, and a nice looking bike you have there!

If you have been used to hydraulic disc brakes on an MTB then stopping a road bike will seem slow in comparison, even with a quality brake set-up. You will need to read the road ahead and try to anticipate braking a bit more than you are used to on the MTB. The bent over position and skinny tyres do give less margin for error.

Looking at the pictures of your bike I think the hoods are positioned a little too high on the bars. Unless you have very big hands sliding the hoods down a centimetre or two will bring the levers closer to the drop position.

Most road cyclists spend the vast majority of their time riding on the tops of the bars or holding the hoods. There are only two things that you can do on the drops that you really can't really do holding the bar tops/hoods: a) fast alpine style decents and b) flat-out sprints.

Hope this helps.
Paul

PeeDee

To amplify a little on what Softlad said, as you come to a halt put your weight on your right leg (so you're effectively standing on the right pedal) and move forward on the bike until you're clear of the saddle and can put your left foot down easily

...and to get going again reverse this procedure. Start with the right crank at '1 o'clock' and stand up on your right foot. While the bike is rolling forwards locate your left cleat in the pedal. Then push the left crank down, clipping in and sitting down on the saddle as you go.

After a little practice this should all combine into one seamless manouvre

rossyl

Firstly thank you all for being so friendly and offering lots of advice, I've tried to answer all questions and will definitely take your advice.

Erudin wrote:

Work on riding and braking in the drops, I would hate to be uncomfortable in the drops as there are loads of steep hills round me, plus you get the speed benefit rake mentioned.

Oval Concepts Shallow Drop Handlebar Review

YouTube link Competitive Cyclist Reviews FSA Compact Handlebars

Stretching Exercises

Thanks for those links. The hopping off the saddle when braking has improved my confidence with riding in the drops. But as for it being comfortable, I still don't know yet. Until I have more confidence to ride in them for a longer duration, so can properly judge, I think i'll leave the bar as is.

sungod wrote:

you could move the shifters further down the bars, if it doesn't make the overall reach too far, the distance to levers does look wrong from the drops, so shims might be the better option

if you are pulling halfway before useful braking then check the pad clearance - whatever the setting you should *not* be able to bottom out the levers against the bars, if you can then you are missing out on braking force

Thanks
Re Shifters...I may have to go to an LBS to get someone judge the distance and adjust, as to be honest I've not done stuff like that before. Given that I only recently bought the bike, I'm hoping the shop I bought it from would be kind enough to make such adjustments.

Re brakes ...I'll need to adjust these myself as it's fairly urgent, I'll add pictures tonight, so if anyone could advise on how best to adjust I'd appreciate it.

skyd0g wrote:

You could also try rotating the bars a few degrees by loosening the stem-clamp & then re-tightening.

Looking at the photo, I'd rotate the bars a few degrees forward - (so that the brake levers are vertical) & see how that feels.

Thanks. Should the shop i bought the bike from not be willing to adjust, I think I'll do as you suggest and rotate the bars. That should be an easy fix hopefully.

PeeDee wrote:

Looking at the pictures of your bike I think the hoods are positioned a little too high on the bars. Unless you have very big hands sliding the hoods down a centimetre or two will bring the levers closer to the drop position.

Most road cyclists spend the vast majority of their time riding on the tops of the bars or holding the hoods. There are only two things that you can do on the drops that you really can't really do holding the bar tops/hoods: a) fast alpine style decents and b) flat-out sprints.

Cheers Paul, that does help a lot and takes some of my own psychological pressue to get into the drops.

I don't have big hands, so hopefully, as said above, the chap at the shop will adjust it for me should it be required after he has a proper look at me on the bike.

Furrag wrote:

Bizarre; not only do we share the same issues, but you have the same bike as me! Tri&Run make custom fit bikes; I'm assuming that - like me - you picked this up second hand?

Pressing the lever halfway sounds too spongy. I had to do that and was terrible when the speed got up as I would be on the brakes as well which is detrimental to handling. If the wheels are true so your brakes don't rub, you should be able to brake with your index finger alone when on the hoods, and the response should be almost immediate. So bring your bikes brake blocks closer to the rims either by using the barrel adjuster or tightening the cable. What brakes do you have? I found the Tektro R350's I had where shite, so I chucked them for Ultegra and some Kool Stop salmon pads which are infinitely better.

How wide are the bars? You want them the same width as your shoulders. The link from my previous post explains more. You can also get bars with shallower drops, so they're so far to drop onto. How do you find reaching for the hoods? Are your elbows bent at all?

Out of interest, where do you live?

Hi, that is odd but I'm glad it sounds like you've solved these issues! Yes i bought the bike second hand from a bike shop.

Index finger braking would be great. It would appear that things need adjusting, I'll take advice from others here and will try and adjust the brakes. I have no idea what brakes i have, might have a look over them when i get home and take some pics.

I'll also reassess the width of the bars tonight and report back. But they seem ok. As said above, I need more time in them to assess comfortableness I think.

I live in North London, shall be using the bike on commutes to the City.

Skippy2309 wrote:

you may need to tweak the brakes, can you get a picture showing the pads clearance from the rim? I have about 1-2mm either side. (you may have an adjuster screw so you can tweak it)

Thanks, I'll post pics tonight and hopefully we can work out how best to adjust the brakes.

rossyl

From the look of the brakes there isn't much room for movement, so maybe i just need to get used to the brakes?

I can't bottom out the brakes against the handle bars, max is halfway.



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Here are the brakes, any idea what they are?

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Thanks all.

skyd0g

The brakes look close-enough to the rims, and the amount of pull you have sounds about right. There will always be less leverage when braking from the hoods, rather than braking from the drops.

Try rotating the bars (it will only need an allen key & is easily reversible) - sometimes just a few degrees adjustment can make a huge difference to how comfortable it feels. (ooh-err!)

<edit> personally I couldn't get on with the 'ergo/anatomic' bars supplied with my bike (no matter how much I adjusted them) & changed them for a set of FSA Omega Compact bars - made a world of difference for me, but it's a personal thing.

rossyl

Thanks for getting back to me, I'll definitely adjust the handle bars and get back to you.

Just wondering if anyone knows what the brakes are, or are they a non-brand type? There is a fair bit of pro-lite stuff on the bike.

on the road

There should be a name on them, if not then they're probably unbranded.

jfw

i'm pretty new to this road biking malarkey - all my riding is on the hoods

i sometimes go into drops if its windy and i'm on the flat - but i feel really unstable when going down hill in the drops (which is when you're meant to use 'em i guess). being a girl i got some spacers in so i could reach the brake levers with my midget fingers - it's comfiest from hoods, and a bit of a stretch from the drops

a lot of weight seems to go on my arms on descents - to the extent that i find it quite hard to indicate when going down hill and i won't try get anything out of my pocket going down hill (as its a bit of a lottery on the flat and up!)

do you just have to force yourself to do it so you get used to it - as i keep putting it off.