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Argument with WVM this evening

spasypaddyspasypaddy Posts: 5,731
edited May 2010 in Commuting chat
coasting along at 25mph on the high road, a white van decides to turn out into the road knowing full well im there. enough distance for me to slow down but not the point, had i been a car he would never have pulled out.

about 200m down the road there was a zebra crossing, i saw him stop, i saw there was no traffic apart in front of him so i knew there was someone crossing. so i went down the side of him and stopped abruptly about a metre and a half before the zebra crossing.

he then beeps at me.

this really really pisses me off. ive done nothing wrong. hes in the wrong for pulling out in front of me (that is actually a reason to fail your driving test making someone slow down).

next set of lights i pull up beside him and have an argument with him, i didnt swear, i shouted so he could hear me. he then proceeded to drive with me, at my pace arguing with me.

fortunately there was another cyclist so i dropped in behind him and the guy in the white van rushed off. he had intent in his eyes.

dirty chav scum.

not impressed

Posts

  • asquitheaasquithea Posts: 145
    Dude, lighten up. You started an argument because a driver made you slow down?

    Oh, the horror!
  • Matt the TesterMatt the Tester Posts: 1,319
    lucky escape mate :shock:

    don't dwell on it mate just another nutter just another day ;)
    Coveryourcar.co.uk RT Tester
    north west of england.
  • spasypaddyspasypaddy Posts: 5,731
    asquithea wrote:
    Dude, lighten up. You started an argument because a driver made you slow down?

    Oh, the horror!
    no the fact that he beeped at me when i'd already clearly stopped at the crossing. making me slow down was my point when i argued with him when he was complaining about my use of the road i was pointing out that he should look at his own driving before mine.

    i was very on edge on the way home due to it being my last ride before my triathlon on monday.

    normally i would have ignored him
  • asquitheaasquithea Posts: 145
    A year or so back, cycling a short 50 yard stretch to the next red light (multi-lane one-way system, and I'm in the middle of one the lanes), some c*ck behind me starts laying on the horn -- no real reason; nowhere for him to go. Without looking round, I give them the one-finger salute as I come to the stop at the lights.

    Next thing I know, I hear a car door slam, and it turns out to be a fairly heavily-built dude climbing out of his c*ck-mobile (sorry, BMW). Comes up to me, and basically wants to start a fight in the middle of the road. I don't give him a reaction, the lights change, and he settles for a shove-punch before getting back in his car and gunning it past me.

    This was on a junction well covered by CCTV with plenty of spectators, but had it really kicked off, I'd have been in a pretty poor position to fight back, right in front of an aggressive driver, and probably not getting much sympathy from the police for the hand gesture.

    So while I still find it difficult not to make with the hand gestures and shouting when someone cuts me up or gets arsy without good reason, I don't think it's a good idea. Zen-like calm is the order of the day :-)
  • davisdavis Posts: 2,566
    Sorry dude, but, from your own description, it sounds like you reacted badly.

    He pulled out, perhaps when he shouldn't have done, but maybe he honestly thought it was fine. It would always look riskier from your point of view, but that's subjective. You had to slow down (I don't know how much), but it wasn't as though you had to grab a handful of brakes.

    You then went past him at a zebra crossing. I probably wouldn't have done that because:

    . It doesn't sound like he had any traffic in front of him (your description's a little unclear), so you might have been getting in front of him for no real advantage. This one's really tricky, and 99% of the "was it worth it?" debate depends on the road conditions, so I might be wrong about my conclusion
    . I don't think you would have been waiting long at a pedestrian crossing even if you were behind him.

    The abrupt stopping part also seems a little unusual... why abruptly?

    Anyway, you had a shouting match with a WVM, which didn't really need to happen.

    Relax, it probably wasn't personal; never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

    Unless he really was dirty chav scum, in which case you're legally entitled to force feed him the entire VHS boxset of Friends.
    Sometimes parts break. Sometimes you crash. Sometimes it’s your fault.
  • spasypaddyspasypaddy Posts: 5,731
    davis wrote:
    He pulled out, perhaps when he shouldn't have done, but maybe he honestly thought it was fine. It would always look riskier from your point of view, but that's subjective. You had to slow down (I don't know how much), but it wasn't as though you had to grab a handful of brakes.
    i had to slow down substantially enough.
    You then went past him at a zebra crossing.
    i drew up alongside him on a two lane road, and i was a metre and a half back from the zebra crossing.
    The abrupt stopping part also seems a little unusual... why abruptly?
    brakes have been fettled today so i was doing alot of abrupt stopping as i have my triathlon on monday so im wearing them in. Every stop today was abrupt whether it was at my front door, at the lights or at the zebra crossing
  • davisdavis Posts: 2,566
    spasypaddy wrote:
    You then went past him at a zebra crossing.
    i drew up alongside him on a two lane road, and i was a metre and a half back from the zebra crossing.
    The abrupt stopping part also seems a little unusual... why abruptly?
    brakes have been fettled today so i was doing alot of abrupt stopping as i have my triathlon on monday so im wearing them in. Every stop today was abrupt whether it was at my front door, at the lights or at the zebra crossing

    Fair enough. I retract those two points.
    Sometimes parts break. Sometimes you crash. Sometimes it’s your fault.
  • prj45prj45 Posts: 2,208
    spasypaddy wrote:
    I saw there was no traffic apart in front of him so i knew there was someone crossing. so i went down the side of him and stopped abruptly about a metre and a half before the zebra crossing.

    he then beeps at me.

    this really really pisses me off. ive done nothing wrong.

    Er...
    It is illegal to park on the crossing or on the zigzag lines. If you do, you face a fine and penalty points on your driving licence if you are in a motor vehicle. It is also illegal to overtake on any part of the crossing - either moving vehicles, or the closest stopped vehicle. Even if you can't see anyone on the crossing, be sure not to overtake. It's possible that a small child or wheelchair user is obscured by the car in front. If a pedestrian is already on the crossing you must give way. http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A954713

    Not sure he would've appreciated that nuance though, he was probably just being a c**k.
  • Kieran_BurnsKieran_Burns Posts: 10,052
    I remember a quote from an American comedian from years back:

    (essentially)
    If someone handed you a lump of sh*t would you accept it? No? So why do you accept the sh*t that people hand to you each day? You don't have to. If someone hands you a lump of sh*t you choose not to take it. So if someone is shitty to you, don't accept it, don't take it. Leave it alone, walk away from it. It's not your sh*t, it's theirs.
    Chunky Cyclists need your love too! :-)
    2009 Specialized Tricross Sport
    2011 Trek Madone 4.5
    2012 Felt F65X
    Proud CX Pervert and quiet roadie. 12 mile commuter
  • prj45prj45 Posts: 2,208
    Ah, acshually, it's just motor vehicles that aren't allowed to overtake in the zig zag section..

    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/20023113.htm#28
    28. - (1) Without prejudice to regulation 27, a zig-zag line shall convey the requirement that, whilst any motor vehicle (in this regulation called "the approaching vehicle") or any part of it is within the limits of a controlled area and is proceeding towards the signal-controlled crossing facility to which the controlled area relates, the driver of the vehicle shall not cause it or any part of it -


    (a) to pass ahead of the foremost part of any other motor vehicle proceeding in the same direction; or

    (b) to pass ahead of the foremost part of a vehicle which is stationary for the purpose of complying with the indication given by a traffic light signal for controlling vehicular traffic.

    (2) In paragraph (1) -

    (a) the reference to a motor vehicle in sub-paragraph (a) is, in a case where more than one motor vehicle is proceeding in the same direction as the approaching vehicle in a controlled area, a reference to the motor vehicle nearest to the signal-controlled crossing facility to which the controlled area relates; and

    (b) the reference to a stationary vehicle is, in a case where more than one vehicle is stationary in a controlled area for the purpose of complying with the indication given by a traffic light signal for controlling vehicular traffic, a reference to the stationary vehicle nearest the signal-controlled crossing facility to which the controlled area relates.
  • bradfordbradford Posts: 195
    I remember a quote from an American comedian from years back:

    (essentially)
    If someone handed you a lump of sh*t would you accept it? No? So why do you accept the sh*t that people hand to you each day? You don't have to. If someone hands you a lump of sh*t you choose not to take it. So if someone is shitty to you, don't accept it, don't take it. Leave it alone, walk away from it. It's not your sh*t, it's theirs.

    Totally agree!! :D
  • AndyMancAndyManc Posts: 1,393
    spasypaddy wrote:

    dirty chav scum.

    not impressed

    One word to you ....... or is it two :roll:

    Headcam ........ or maybe head cam .

    Evans have got the Muvi on sale at present, it's peace of mind, if anything.


    .
    Specialized Hardrock Pro/Trek FX 7.3 Hybrid/Specialized Enduro/Specialized Tri-Cross Sport
    URBAN_MANC.png
  • dilemnadilemna Posts: 2,187
    I think the saying goes "Pride before a fall".

    There's enough trouble on the roads without going looking for it. On a bike you ARE very vulnerable. Step back and take a few long deep breaths. It's not worth it.
    Life is like a roll of toilet paper; long and useful, but always ends at the wrong moment. Anon.
    Think how stupid the average person is.......
    half of them are even more stupid than you first thought.
  • AndyMancAndyManc Posts: 1,393
    dilemna wrote:
    I think the saying goes "Pride before a fall".

    There's enough trouble on the roads without going looking for it. On a bike you ARE very vulnerable. Step back and take a few long deep breaths. It's not worth it.

    The more people that do nothing, the more they will take the p iss.

    It's a fine line, you have to be able to assess the situation, all cyclists are in a vulnerable position.

    A safer way of fighting back is by using headcams and handing the more serious incidents to the police,other footage can be used in a personal campaign to persuade local political representatives to support cycling and to fight and tackle the scum we all see on our roads.

    As far as I'm concerned ,doing nothing is not an option, do nothing and you get what you deserve.

    .
    Specialized Hardrock Pro/Trek FX 7.3 Hybrid/Specialized Enduro/Specialized Tri-Cross Sport
    URBAN_MANC.png
  • zaneszanes Posts: 563
    AndyManc wrote:
    dilemna wrote:
    I think the saying goes "Pride before a fall".

    There's enough trouble on the roads without going looking for it. On a bike you ARE very vulnerable. Step back and take a few long deep breaths. It's not worth it.

    The more people that do nothing, the more they will take the p iss.

    It's a fine line, you have to be able to assess the situation, all cyclists are in a vulnerable position.

    A safer way of fighting back is by using headcams and handing the more serious incidents to the police,other footage can be used in a personal campaign to persuade local political representatives to support cycling and to fight and tackle the scum we all see on our roads.

    As far as I'm concerned ,doing nothing is not an option, do nothing and you get what you deserve.

    .

    But the thing is, this didn't start with a "serious incident" did it? Someone had to slow down because someone pulled out (quite a way) in front of them. Wonder how many people think it's reasonable for car drivers to moan at cyclists for making them slow down. (Whether by pulling out or not).

    Yes, it's annoying, but in the great scheme of things a squeeze of the brakes, a few seconds delay and chalk it down to experience.

    Admittedly it's absolutely not on that WVM tried to drive at the OP, but remember that a driver is in control of 1.5 tonnes of weapon. Yes, it sucks, but making a stand is no good when you're lying on a slab.
  • AndyMancAndyManc Posts: 1,393
    zanes wrote:

    But the thing is, this didn't start with a "serious incident" did it? .

    I've not said it did.

    The OP implies his presence on the road was totally disregarded because he was a cyclist, I'm sure that happens to all of us on a regular basis.

    The driver then sounds his horn at him, clearly another indication of the drivers attitude.

    Without being there it's difficult to make a judgement call, any driver that sounds their horn at me, I would ask what the problem was (that's not an unreasonable thing to ask,though I can't recall the last time that's happened to me), I wouldn't just ignore it, that would, I imagine, result in a heated conversation.

    Obviously when I'm cycling to work at 5am, when there are few vehicles on the road (and no witnesses) I would steer clear of any confrontation, cycling through a packed city centre during rush hour then I'm likely to be far more confrontational.

    I don't think I would have done anything much differently from the OP, maybe, if I was wearing my headcam I would have put the driver and his registration on you-tube and called him a c*** (instead of positioning myself in front of him), but I do believe we should be doing everything we can (with minimum risk to ourselves) to address the serious issues which (in my experience) are becoming much,much worse.


    .
    Specialized Hardrock Pro/Trek FX 7.3 Hybrid/Specialized Enduro/Specialized Tri-Cross Sport
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  • Agent57Agent57 Posts: 2,300
    To me, it seems rather handbags.
    MTB commuter / 531c commuter / CR1 Team 2009 / RockHopper Pro Disc / 10 mile PB: 25:52 (Jun 2014)
  • chuckcorkchuckcork Posts: 1,471
    To play the devils advocate, as annoying as it is, I see plenty of drivers pull out in front of other traffic and block the road, expecting all the while that said traffic will slow down for them.

    Just as i see plenty of drivers creeping out from side streets to the point where they totally block the road and you can't get past, who then wave thank you as if you were being polite in waiting for them rather than their being aggressive and forcing you to stop.

    Live with it, life is too short to worry about stupid people.

    At the end of the day, he is still a c*ck and you're still on your bike, what better way could it end?
    'Twas Mulga Bill, from Eaglehawk, that caught the cycling craze....
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