Q rings... Any good?

warrior4life

I'm thinking or getting a big chainring, has anyone else got one and if so though any thoughts?

Any places to get one at a good price?

Pokerface

I have them (both rings). Love them and can recommend them. For me - just made my pedal stroke smother, eliminated the dead spot and made it easier to put power down where I wanted it.

Buy direct from http://www.velotechservices.co.uk - there are no discounts available on the rings anywhere.

Here's a pic of my bike with the rings on. I opted to buy the 'aero TT rings' as I thought they looked nicer than the standard rings. Still 53 teeth:

dennisn

I think they work. At least in the sense that they are a chain ring. Do they work as claimed in the advertisements and testimonials???? They may give you whatever is claimed for them but this doesn't mean that it will help you in any way. If you follow my meaning. Gut feeling on these things - seen it before, years ago, sort of laughed at it then, am sort of laughing now. Bottom line. Will they "put you on the podium"? No.

giant_man

Why would they work? Am I right in thinking they aren't completely round, but rather oval in shape? Can someone explain to me why they would be more effective than normal chainrings?

stokepa31

ive got biopace rings on my 1991 marin muirwoods . didnt catch on then and dont think it will now. Placebo effect might be worth extra watts though

Rockhopper

Loads of pros running with them now including Wiggins.

danowat

3% improvement on power output apparently.

The theory behind it is sound (oval, so extra leveridge at the peak of the oval), but in pratice, it probably makes a minute difference to anyone who isn't at elite level.

If I remember correctly, the only reason biopace failed, was it was based on a "true" oval, and this caused knee problems, the q-rings are of a more complex shape.

Percy Vera

Pokerface wrote:

Buy direct from http://www.velotechservices.co.uk - there are no discounts available on the rings anywhere.

Here
http://www.probikekit.com/advsearch.php ... +q&x=0&y=0

& here

http://www.fudgescyclestore.com/index.php?c=5571

have discounts.

How long have you had them Pokerface? I'm currently considering them.

AidanR

Rockhopper wrote:

Loads of pros running with them now including Wiggins.

Wiggins uses a different take on the same idea - O,Symetric rings.

I quite like the idea. My brief reading of some of the testing of these things is that they do give a boost in power, but not overall speed, i.e. they allow you to lay a bit more power down, but that ultimately that power has to come from somewhere! Perhaps they recruit muscles better, but don't actually make you more efficient.

They've also recently introduced Pro Q-rings, which have a less oval, more round shape. Makes you think...!

Pokerface

dennisn wrote:

I think they work. At least in the sense that they are a chain ring. Do they work as claimed in the advertisements and testimonials???? They may give you whatever is claimed for them but this doesn't mean that it will help you in any way. If you follow my meaning. Gut feeling on these things - seen it before, years ago, sort of laughed at it then, am sort of laughing now. Bottom line. Will they "put you on the podium"? No.

They were good enough to help Carlos Sastre win the Tour de France, so they can't be all bad. And they have proven scientifically that they give you extra watts. Article in Pro Cycling this month.

redddraggon

Pokerface wrote:

And they have proven scientifically that they give you extra watts.

Not saying you are wrong, because I know nothing about funny shaped chainrings, but can you reference any peer reviewed journals?

Pokerface

Percy Vera wrote:

Pokerface wrote:

Buy direct from http://www.velotechservices.co.uk - there are no discounts available on the rings anywhere.

Here
http://www.probikekit.com/advsearch.php ... +q&x=0&y=0

& here

http://www.fudgescyclestore.com/index.php?c=5571

have discounts.

How long have you had them Pokerface? I'm currently considering them.

Basically the same price as what Velotech charges (if you buy them as a pair as I did).

I've had them for about 6 months now. I looked around eBay for a while but never saw any for sale so bough them new. I guess people who buy them must be pleased with them as they don't get re-sold! But if you buy and don't like - then can easily sell them on.

Pokerface

redddraggon wrote:

Pokerface wrote:

And they have proven scientifically that they give you extra watts.

Not saying you are wrong, because I know nothing about funny shaped chainrings, but can you reference any peer reviewed journals?

You'd have to read the article in ProCycing and find out who did their testing, etc. (EDIT - if I can find a copy of he mag, I'll check and see how they were tested)

I think they gave something like an extra 30w for sprinting and 20w on the flats.


And that particular article is not the first I've heard about them giving extra power. Or it uses your existing power more effectively to give more power to the drivetrain, etc.

I know they have helped me but they aren't for everyone. If you already have a fairly even pedal stroke then you may not benefit from them as much. Pros or people who spend hour after hour after hour in the saddle probably have a good even pedal stroke and distribute the power evenly already.

redddraggon

A very quick literature survey seems to indicate support (especially for use on the track) and lack of support for eccentric chainrings.

It seems more about the "feel" than actual performance improvements. And I guess you won't know if you like the "feel" unless you try them.

cougie

Pokerface wrote:

dennisn wrote:

I think they work. At least in the sense that they are a chain ring. Do they work as claimed in the advertisements and testimonials???? They may give you whatever is claimed for them but this doesn't mean that it will help you in any way. If you follow my meaning. Gut feeling on these things - seen it before, years ago, sort of laughed at it then, am sort of laughing now. Bottom line. Will they "put you on the podium"? No.

Denis - don't such a fukcing knob all the time, especially about things you nothing about. Have you tried them? NO. Then shut up.

They were good enough to help Carlos Sastre win the Tour de France, so they can't be all bad. And they have proven scientifically that they give you extra watts. Article in Pro Cycling this month.

Thats a bit harsh isnt it ? Scientific proof often contradicts itself anyway, and I know I've been part of a scientific study that was so flawed it could have proved anything, so I take them with a pinch of salt.
I really cant see that the chainrings made him win the Tour. I've never seen it reported quite like that.
Bobby Julich had them back in 2004 and he didnt win the Tour that year.


That said - if you believe they work for you - then thats all you need.

warrior4life

Thanks for the feecback guys, especially pokerface... You're right, if i dont like them i'm sure i'll make at least %75 back on ebay

I'm thinking sponsorship has alot to do with what the pros ride.. I think i'll get some and post my thoughts on here.

giant_man

Pokerface wrote:

dennisn wrote:

I think they work. At least in the sense that they are a chain ring. Do they work as claimed in the advertisements and testimonials???? They may give you whatever is claimed for them but this doesn't mean that it will help you in any way. If you follow my meaning. Gut feeling on these things - seen it before, years ago, sort of laughed at it then, am sort of laughing now. Bottom line. Will they "put you on the podium"? No.

Denis - don't such a fukcing knob all the time, especially about things you nothing about. Have you tried them? NO. Then shut up.

They were good enough to help Carlos Sastre win the Tour de France, so they can't be all bad. And they have proven scientifically that they give you extra watts. Article in Pro Cycling this month.

That was waaaay too harsh pokerface. Lighten up man for gods sake. Dennis always adds valid points, well most of the time.

Pokerface

dennisn wrote:

Pokerface wrote:

dennisn wrote:

I think they work. At least in the sense that they are a chain ring. Do they work as claimed in the advertisements and testimonials???? They may give you whatever is claimed for them but this doesn't mean that it will help you in any way. If you follow my meaning. Gut feeling on these things - seen it before, years ago, sort of laughed at it then, am sort of laughing now. Bottom line. Will they "put you on the podium"? No.

Denis - don't such a fukcing knob all the time, especially about things you nothing about. Have you tried them? NO. Then shut up.

They were good enough to help Carlos Sastre win the Tour de France, so they can't be all bad. And they have proven scientifically that they give you extra watts. Article in Pro Cycling this month.

The OP asked for "any thoughts." Those are my thoughts. Sorry if you disagree.
Wait, this looks like maybe only the 2nd. case of someone being wrong on the internet.
It's either you or me.

You need to check your eyesight old man.

The OP said, and I'll quote it here for you again, "I'm thinking or getting a big chainring, has anyone else got one and if so though any thoughts?"

My mistake. I didn't realize you HAD A SET. :roll:

Pokerface

giant mancp wrote:

That was waaaay too harsh pokerface. Lighten up man for gods sake. Dennis always adds valid points, well most of the time.

Really? I'm still waiting for a valid point of his to come along. Please someone update me if it ever does.

redddraggon

dennisn wrote:

I think they work.

Nout wrong with that statement.

dennisn wrote:

At least in the sense that they are a chain ring.

Totally correct

dennisn wrote:

Do they work as claimed in the advertisements and testimonials???

Fair question

dennisn wrote:

They may give you whatever is claimed for them but this doesn't mean that it will help you in any way.

Bit of a waffley statement but literature seems to agree

dennisn wrote:

If you follow my meaning.

I'm getting you so far Dennis, and I largely agree

dennisn wrote:

Gut feeling on these things - seen it before, years ago, sort of laughed at it then, am sort of laughing now.

Probably has a point there.

dennisn wrote:

Bottom line. Will they "put you on the podium"? No.

Totally agree.

---

In this case Dennis hasn't really said anything wrong, he may not have them or have used them, but he hasn't said anything that isn't supported in papers.

Now where Dennis does have some screwed up, pointless arguments is in Pro Race.

DaSy

I almost bought a set when I recently put on a set of Rotor 3D cranks, but bottled it in the end and went for Stonglight CT2's instead. The main reason is I am close to a few major events I have been training for for months, so didn't want to upset the apple cart so close, just in case.

The main difference between them and Biopace of old is where the peak of the elipse is placed in the rotation of the cranks.

Biopace placed it at the top and bottom of the stroke which meant it was hardest to push at the deadspot which led to the knee issues they are associated with.

Q-Rings place the smallest part of the elipse at the top of the stroke so that you push easily through the deadspot, and then the bigger part is at around 3 oclock to maximise of the power available on the strongest part of the down stroke.

It all sounds good, and I plan to go to them once I have done the challemges I have for this year.

Pokerface, do you train on more than one bike? I have a bike I use on the turbo and many of my training rides, and my best bike I use for some training and all events. I was concerned that I would need to change the rings on both bikes in case the feel was hard to get used to if I swapped between bikes one with and one without, do you have any experience of that?

4kicks

redddraggon wrote:

dennisn wrote:

I think they work.

Nout wrong with that statement.

dennisn wrote:

At least in the sense that they are a chain ring.

Totally correct

dennisn wrote:

Do they work as claimed in the advertisements and testimonials???

Fair question

dennisn wrote:

They may give you whatever is claimed for them but this doesn't mean that it will help you in any way.

Bit of a waffley statement but literature seems to agree

dennisn wrote:

If you follow my meaning.

I'm getting you so far Dennis, and I largely agree

dennisn wrote:

Gut feeling on these things - seen it before, years ago, sort of laughed at it then, am sort of laughing now.

Probably has a point there.

---

In this case Dennis hasn't really said anything wrong, he may not have them or have used them, but he hasn't said anything that isn't supported in papers..

Oh god, does one REALLY have to explain how putting together a string of words or sentences which individually are "correct and fair" can turn it into a stupid and pointless sentiment.
for example "you" - perfectly fair "are" -Totally correct - "an" - Valid - "idiot"..also fine.
Now, back to the subject at hand. Yes Ive used them. For about 3 months, 3000kms. Do they work for me? My average climb up a timed 10kms 8% climb fell by about 5%. Is it a placebo effect? Who the hell knows.

Do they have scientific tests ' Yes. here:http://www.rotorbikeusa.com/pdf/Q-Rings Test Results, University of Volladolid.pdf

Is this test statistically sigificant? I dont know.

But equally, some say they dont work here: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... dy#p634903
More bunf here

http://www.rotorbikeusa.com/pdf/More%20 ... 0Rings.pdf

Pokerface

DaSy wrote:

Pokerface, do you train on more than one bike? I have a bike I use on the turbo and many of my training rides, and my best bike I use for some training and all events. I was concerned that I would need to change the rings on both bikes in case the feel was hard to get used to if I swapped between bikes one with and one without, do you have any experience of that?

I have 3 bikes. The Q-Rings are on my road bike which gets the most use. Regular rings on my TT and track bike.


The feel is NOT hard to get used to. In the 'neutral position' (there are 5 positions you can use) the effect is subtle. You can go more aggressive once you've gotten used to it.

If I continue with track racing, I will get the track ring also and eventually put them on my TT bike as well. But I don't feel out of sorts or anything when I jump on my TT bike without the rings - my pedaling just isn't as smooth. I'm usually so focussed on the pain that I don't have time to notice anyway.

redddraggon

4kicks wrote:

Do they have scientific tests ' Yes. here:http://www.rotorbikeusa.com/pdf/Q-Rings Test Results, University of Volladolid.pdf

I'm afraid one paper doesn't cut it, especially one on the manufacturers website.

I suggest you do a proper literature survey if you want to convince any one.

Pokerface

OK then. They don't work. Don't buy them. Problem solved.


Back to the ORIGINAL question - I have them. I've used them. I was a doubter but gave them a chance - and it wasn't based on research on the manufacturer's website.

They work FOR ME and I have had great results with them.


But hey - some people are unable to use clipless pedals. Does that mean they are bad?


If anyone has actually USED Q-Rings and has negative things to say (after giving them a good trial period), then I'd like to hear it. I can agree that some people will not notice ANY benefit - but it's those that had a negative effect I'm interested in.

As for papers published on a manufacturer's website - if they have results - they are going to publish them - no?

redddraggon

Pokerface wrote:

As for papers published on a manufacturer's website - if they have results - they are going to publish them - no?

Yes they are going to publish them, but any sensible person will want multiple peer reviewed sources. You go to straight to unbiased journals before the manufacturer's website.

Personally I want to give them a try, but they are rather expensive for what they are.

Velonutter

I went to a presentation by Rotor UK who distribute the Q-Rings, from all their demonstrations they seem to work better for amateurs rather than professionals as they claim bigger gains can be made.

I would like to try some, but over the last 4 months there have only been two sets on fleabay and I missed them on both times.

I'm not sure that their are gains on a fixed wheel as the slack points are reduced, but as and when I can find a cheap pair, then I shall give them a go.

Pokerface

redddraggon wrote:

Pokerface wrote:

As for papers published on a manufacturer's website - if they have results - they are going to publish them - no?

Yes they are going to publish them, but any sensible person will want multiple peer reviewed sources. You go to straight to unbiased journals before the manufacturer's website.

Personally I want to give them a try, but they are rather expensive for what they are.

They were cheaper than replacing my Red chainrings. And the benefit to my cycling was worth every penny. And no - I don't need stacks of scientific proof published in multiple journals to buy something. I am not a geek.

(Did you insist on scientific research before you bought your frame? Groupset? Handlebars? Pedals? Bibshorts? Etc, etc, etc)

redddraggon

No, I only proof when people make claims like this:

Pokerface wrote:

And they have proven scientifically that they give you extra watts.

hopper1

I plan on getting some of these (once I've met my current targets), as like DaSy, I don't want to upset the 'applecart', right now.
I wont be basing my purchase on peer reviews, more likely to be based on gut feeling and/or, input from this forum, as I can understand the English language used on here (mostly!).

DaSy

Pokerface wrote:

I have 3 bikes. The Q-Rings are on my road bike which gets the most use. Regular rings on my TT and track bike.


The feel is NOT hard to get used to. In the 'neutral position' (there are 5 positions you can use) the effect is subtle. You can go more aggressive once you've gotten used to it.

If I continue with track racing, I will get the track ring also and eventually put them on my TT bike as well. But I don't feel out of sorts or anything when I jump on my TT bike without the rings - my pedaling just isn't as smooth. I'm usually so focussed on the pain that I don't have time to notice anyway.

Pokerface - Thanks for that, that makes it a bit easier for me to make the transition. A friend of mine has one on his mountain bike, and swears it has made a significant difference to the feel of his pedalling, and for the better.