What cant I do on a hardtail?
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I tried to phrase the question so it wouldn't turn into a VS battle.
Thanks for the input it has made up my mind. 8)0 -
for me a rock garden has been put there to provide challange, fs newts this and so makes the point of the rock garden non existent. i dont dread rock gardens, i learn to ride them, and then enjoy the challange, rather than giving them up as "scary" or hard and using fs as a kind of blanket so you dont get scared.al2098 wrote:Whether someone NEEDS a full sus or HT is not the point.
I would say if you get a hardtail then in a while you may go for the full sus and will be able to fully appreciate its benefits.
I certainly wouldn't listen to some of the nonsense on these forums about going back to a hardtail..after a full sus.
I think you would have more fun on a full sus which will feel more planted downhill. You will be able to enjoy rock gardens rather than dread them. You will be faster going downhill than with a HT.
If you eventually get a very good FS, it can be faster uphill as well, otherwise no pro XC racer would entertain them.
People say don't listen to the hype about FS, I think more hype is brewed up by the HT riders trying to justify their lack of funds.
I loved my hardtail bike but thankfully I moved on. As most people I know have.
Fs is not better, its just diferent. HT is (IMHO) more fun and can be faster or can be slower, but that isnt the point, im not racing, if i was i would use an FS, but i ride for fun, and i think a HT dishes that out a bit more generouslyI like bikes and stuff0 -
I swore off FS bikes a few years back because they were horrible pogo sticks that weighed a ton. Last year my poor old back persuaded me to buy a FS and now my back loves me again. I was surprised at how good FS bikes have become in the last 8 years. They seem to have got rid of a lot of the disadvantages apart from higher maintenance.
The longer the ride the more a FS makes sense I can only ride my HT for a couple of hours before I get tired especially if it is rocky. On the FS I can ride 3 or 4 hours before I start to feel tired.
For £1200 I would go HT you will get cracking kit. If you find you really want a bouncer just buy a frame and swap the bits over.Fig rolls: proof that god loves cyclists and that she wants us to do another lap0 -
It was interesting that most of the racers at Dalby were on HTs. I could see why though; Trail centre trails tend to be smooth(ish) with technical features every-so-often. So I reckon any gains in time on the tech bits are outwayed by the time made up on the non tech parts with a lighter, faster accelerating bike. Secondly, the fitter you are, the faster you hit all the tech bits, which means you float over them rather than crash through them. Whilst this doesn't make a HT faster on tech DHs it does close the gap when compared to more normal riders. It's really obvious to see. And the drops on the Dalby XC course are the same whatever bike you're on, as they can all be rolled fast as long as you ave the right technique.
Having said that, a HT that's no lighter than an efficient full sus is slower IME, and I'll ride a FS most of the time because I'm not racing, I'm not so interested in getting uphills fast, only getting as much speed as poss downhill! And if I have to work hard to keep up with HTs on the flat & uphill then I'm getting fitter.
That's how I see it, I think it totally depends on what you want out of the ride. I completely get why some people go back to HTs or it's their 1st choice even when they own a good FS, but for me it's the other way round. Once I rode the Five there was no going back, although I would like a light, racy XC bike for a change sometiimes. The HT I have in mind is more expensive than the Orange though, so maybe not for a while!0 -
ive had both and find myself going back to hardtails my personal opinion is unless you can afford to spend about £2000 on a nice fs i would go for a hardtail.i got a ragley mmm bop and it handles everything i can throw at it and still weighs in at 26.5 lb.im not far behind most people on fs bikes and in front of quite a few0
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ride_whenever wrote:You *can* do everything on a hardtail... i'd only avoid massive-rock gardens on my 456.
Any chance you or somebody could post a pic of what constitutes a massive rock garden please? Just so I know.
Cheers0 -
Would it be fair to say a FS is more than the vast majority of us will ever need?0
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Neither could he.0
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Having said that, a HT that's no lighter than an efficient full sus is slower IME
I'd say that again depends on the sus design [and rider and terrain]. If it has a low amount of anti squat, and is prone to bobbing it may rob effeiciency.0 -
Its fair to say I will never ever do the above on anything. 0
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supersonic wrote:Having said that, a HT that's no lighter than an efficient full sus is slower IME
I'd say that again depends on the sus design [and rider and terrain]. If it has a low amount of anti squat, and is prone to bobbing it may rob effeiciency.
That's why I said an 'efficient' full sus.
I reckon there aren't too many rubbish full sus designs among the serious makes these days though. If I don't like a bike these days it's more likely to be because of bad ground clearance or bad geometry. Most rear sus is fairly well sorted.0 -
How we pedal and gearing has a big effect - some just don't seem to work for some people.0
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supersonic wrote:How we pedal and gearing has a big effect - some just don't seem to work for some people.
I suppose so, but I reckon if someone's pedalling action is making a bike bob that isn't normally prone to it, it's not so hard for the rider to get smoother though.
Gearing should have an effect, due to different chainlines relative to the pivot position, but in my experience I've never really been able to feel any difference. Maybe that does affect some bikes more than others. I've not ridden a huge number of full sussers.0 -
Chronicbint wrote:I am just curious as to what I wouldn't be able to do on a hardtail bike. .
Solve a rubiks cube.al2098 wrote:People say don't listen to the hype about FS, I think more hype is brewed up by the HT riders trying to justify their lack of funds.
My hardtail cost more than a lot of full sussers And my full suss is more capable than most out there. Both have their place, if I could only have one though it'd be a hardtail. Glad I can have both, I love my full suss.
Thing is, people tend to make really daft comparisons too. Like, I'll ride things on the hemlock that I wouldn't on the soul, it's a hugely confidence inspiring bike... But that's because it's slacker and has more travel, not because it's a full suss. The exact same thing would be true if I had a longer travel slacker hardtail. And there's plenty of things I wouldn't attempt on my mate's Anthem that I'll just knock off on the Soul.Uncompromising extremist0 -
Northwind wrote:al2098 wrote:People say don't listen to the hype about FS, I think more hype is brewed up by the HT riders trying to justify their lack of funds.
My hardtail cost more than a lot of full sussers And my full suss is more capable than most out there. Both have their place, if I could only have one though it'd be a hardtail. Glad I can have both, I love my full suss.
Thing is, people tend to make really daft comparisons too. Like, I'll ride things on the hemlock that I wouldn't on the soul, it's a hugely confidence inspiring bike... But that's because it's slacker and has more travel, not because it's a full suss. The exact same thing would be true if I had a longer travel slacker hardtail. And there's plenty of things I wouldn't attempt on my mate's Anthem that I'll just knock off on the Soul.
Well said. Geometry has a huge effect. The only thing I'd still be more nervous about on a slack HT [edit: as opposed to a slack full sus] is jumps & air off drops.0 -
maybe ask what can you not do on a full sus'ser
if by any chance, jumping off BIG stuff with hard landing (ie. like , dirt jumps /free rides / urban trial type...) . generally, riders would avoild as it is likely to bottom out and kill the rear shok (ofcourse usless you got a fully loaded hardcore DH monster)
on normal trails for trail bikes, HT and FS both have their pros n cons, which i believe you have heard them all.
the final question is asking what you enjoy more and what type of ride you into.0 -
Ok so I took all your advice and ignored it.
Decided I was too old for a hardtail bashing me around and went and bought an Anthem X4 for some bum comfort. Also got some free kit with it from Pedalon, definately worth the 1.5 hour journey.
Now to learn to ride!0 -
Chronicbint wrote:Now I am not trying to spark the old vs debate but I am just curious as to what I wouldn't be able to do on a hardtail bike. .
Assuming you're an average rider and you are riding your HT, against yourself on a Full-Sus.
Your Full-Sus self will have more probability of:
Having a mechanical failure.
Higher cost of maintenance.
Beating your HT self down the hill.
Watching your HT self pull away on the ups.
Not having your teeth shook out.
Making it down the hill in one piece.
Keeping you on the bike.
There are always exceptions to the rule - but this is all very "general".
You should get a £120 Apollo Full-Sus from Halfords. If you make it to the top...you'll get some respect - If you make it to the bottom - you'll get loads more
You'll also be fitter than anyone else...probably have more of an eventful ride and will no doubt scare yourself witless. 0 -
I have just gone back to a HT and find it much better at Glentress than than my FS.
Can jump much better, ride stuff I was always wary of on the FS with confidence and generally have more fun
That has more to do with the change in Geometry and the way I ride works best with a HT
A lot of people have to remeber that a downhill FS bike is obviously going to descend better than an XC race HT but thats because it was designed for that purpose0 -
HT vs FS? Again?!
I have said it before - I have both I prefer one. I ride it more often as a consequence.Closet jockey wheel pimp whore.0
