cotic soul v inbred?

rowlers
rowlers Posts: 1,614
edited April 2010 in MTB buying advice
Is a Cotic Soul a worthwhile upgrade over an Inbred?

Believe it or not the Mrs does not "like" my Inbred and is insisting I change the frame! Bonus!

But if there is little to no difference other than weight then I'll find something else to spend cash on, like an Osprey pack for instance :wink:

Cheers

Comments

  • blister pus
    blister pus Posts: 5,780
    it's something you'd have to demo carefully and make a personal judgement on. For me, yes. For you...?
  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    The 456 or standard Inbred?
  • rowlers
    rowlers Posts: 1,614
    Std Inbred :wink:
    I like the inbred, it does everything I want, it rides well takes a beating as I'm not exper! but the nagging is driving me to BUY!
  • Northwind
    Northwind Posts: 14,675
    There's a lot of difference. Not going to say which is better but I had a Scandal (same geometry as Inbred) and though it was a great short-travel bike it didn't ride so well with 130mm in it. It was warrantied for it but obviously not designed for it, IMO

    Whereas the Soul, as far as I'm aware ALSO wasn't designed for longer forks originally, but does work very well with them anyway, while still being great at 100mm. (not better or worse at 100mm, but different- shorter feeling and a bit snappier but not as stable)

    So it does depend a lot on what you want it to do. I'd say personally there's not enough difference between them at 100mm to justify the huge price of the Soul but if you want the longer travel and adaptability the Soul really comes into its own and the Inbred just doesn't compare at all.

    But ymmv ;)
    Uncompromising extremist
  • thelonegroover
    thelonegroover Posts: 1,073
    I’m probably wrong, but I’d say the Inbred (not 456) is designed to take a 100mm folk but the Soul is designed to take a longer folk. If you’re looking to change the frame, have a looked at the Pipedream R853 or Sanderson Life/Breath. What folk do you currently have?
    Planet X Kaffenback 2
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    Genesis High Latitude 2x10
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  • rowlers
    rowlers Posts: 1,614
    Current fork is a 2009 Reba sl. 100mm. Maybe i should just save the money. Buy some quicker to change the look me the inbred lol
  • blister pus
    blister pus Posts: 5,780
    the Sanderson Life and Breath would be well worth a demo with 100mm travel forks. They're my back up plan should the Sirius not fly. Even though I've gone with the Sirius, in it's latest incarnation, is an unknown quantity, but with weight at 4.1 lbs for me it's worth taking a punt on. You need to try before you buy is the message.
  • Soul Boy
    Soul Boy Posts: 359
    The Soul is a very nice frame 8)
  • peter413
    peter413 Posts: 5,120
    If you like the inbred and "need" a new frame, why not get a scandel :wink:
  • thelonegroover
    thelonegroover Posts: 1,073
    Seems the Soul is almost £100 over priced against other 853 frames!
    Planet X Kaffenback 2
    Giant Trance X2
    Genesis High Latitude 2x10
    Planet X n2a
    Genesis Core 20
  • Northwind
    Northwind Posts: 14,675
    Seems the Soul is almost £100 over priced against other 853 frames!

    Against some others, sure... Bits like the 653 head tube and the machined replacable dropout and such drive up the price a bit, and the finish is just about as good as it gets... The comparison's usually the 853 altitude but that's a cheaper made bike in a lot of ways.

    But yep, very expensive. It needs to be right for you to make it worthwhile. Still £100 cheaper than the Orange R8 though! Or an Evil Sov, or various others.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • thelonegroover
    thelonegroover Posts: 1,073
    Not sure if the Soul has replacable drop outs, certainly has a replacable gear hanger, but so does the Sirius.

    Actually, if I was considering spending £470 on a steel frame and having to buy another folk to get the most out of it, I'd also consider putting folk money towards a £699 Ti frame.
    Planet X Kaffenback 2
    Giant Trance X2
    Genesis High Latitude 2x10
    Planet X n2a
    Genesis Core 20
  • rowlers
    rowlers Posts: 1,614
    Choices!
    Ti would be nice!
  • Northwind
    Northwind Posts: 14,675
    Not sure if the Soul has replacable drop outs, certainly has a replacable gear hanger

    Doh! Yep.

    The new 853 Pipedreams look ace but they're still a bit of an unknown. I read somewhere that they're not CEN approved for one thing... But if it delivers then yeah, should be great, I'd like a go on one myself.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • blister pus
    blister pus Posts: 5,780
    Northwind wrote:
    The new 853 Pipedreams look ace but they're still a bit of an unknown. I read somewhere that they're not CEN approved for one thing... But if it delivers then yeah, should be great, I'd like a go on one myself.

    it's not a mandatory requirement they be tested so until it is they'll be tested when they have to be tested is how that one is panning out. The actual frame manufacturer says the "guidelines" stipulate that an 853 main triangle constitutes a "racing" frame suitable for "severe applications" and provided this is clearly spelt out and punters stick to the frames intended use (XC / AM) then everything is hunky-dory. It's fair to say the 2010 has been pretty extensively beefed up to fit those demands (list available on site). Whether the 2010 model in it's current state would pass CEN testing is a complete unknown.
  • Northwind
    Northwind Posts: 14,675
    Yeah, see, that does strike me as an epic load of handwaving- it IS a legal requirement unless you fall outwith the scope of the EN. The exclusion they're relying on there is this:

    "It does not apply to racing bicycles and specialised types of bicycle such as tandems or bicycles designed and equipped for use in severe applications such as sanctioned competition events, stunting, or aerobatic manoeuvres."

    Which TBH, is clearly total cobblers, this isn't just a race frame and it's certainly not a stunt or downhill bike.

    Course, they know their stuff and the frames will I expect be just as strong as everyone else's, but basically one of the ways they're cutting costs is by trying to pull a fast one on the legality side, and that could cause problems. they make a token effort to say they're "a specialist frame designed for racing or severe applications" to try and get into the downhill/dirt jump exclusion but it doesn't hold water, particularily since they can't resist saying how great it'll be as an adventure tourer, or general XC and trail bike, or for trail centre use.

    Still, wouldn't stop me having one ;) But it's a really poor attempt to get out of the safety legislation.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • blister pus
    blister pus Posts: 5,780
    It's not a legal requirement yet though, but yes, it will be at some point in the near future. And to be honest if that keeps the weight of the frame at 4.1lbs then I'll take it and take a punt on the ride quality. From my take as a punter If testing means more metal and the weight going up to 4.6 - 4.8 - 5.0+ then it loses it's appeal. They now state their case pretty clearly and do so when you contact them and quiz them about the frame and it's use limits. It's a general XC/AM frame, use it for commuting, touring like you would any other frame/bike that doubles up. You just don't expect miracles if you decide to go free-riding and don't expect a replacement.
  • Northwind
    Northwind Posts: 14,675
    Yep, but that's the thing, the exclusion they're trying to squeeze into doesn't apply for trail/XC frames, for commuting, touring, or anything else. And they know that full well.

    I thought EN 14766 has already replaced BS6102 but it turns out I'm wrong, the new regs are in force but it's still acceptable to only be BS6102 approved til next April. After that point it'll be illegal to sell them without the EN14766 testing being completed in full. Thing is though, if they're confident it'll pass, why not test it today like everyone else? And if they're not, why launch a new frame they can only sell for a year? Bit odd. I hope it doesn't come back to haunt them.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • blister pus
    blister pus Posts: 5,780
    Sat on the sidelines watching this unfold as long as I have I think you'll find a revamped and tweaked 2011/12 frame will fully comply with any European directive that's in place. It wouldn't take much to tweak this 2010 frame to pass any test. But I'll also expect the weight to go up along with price. Which is exactly what they didn't want.

    I know what they've been trying to do but so far they've taken an absolute battering and learnt the very brutal hard way a) finding the right frame shop to do what they want b) having enough muscle to get things done to a time table. I could go into it but it's the wrong thread.