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Best team for young rider development

iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
edited April 2010 in Pro race
Which teams do we all think do the best job for neo pro riders?

HTC seem to churn out a lot of talented guys and Liquigas have a lot of very good young guys who are being managed fairly well.

And what makes a good environment for a new pro? It's going to be different for everyone I suppose but is it all about good advice and a sensible program?
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.

Posts

  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,774 Lives Here
    I thought the way Gilbert developed is perfect myself.

    If you're a world class talent, you need to learn how to be in charge, but without the pressure of a big team.
  • afx237viafx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Speaking of Gilbert, FDJ have always done a good job of finding young riders, but usually they don't start bagging the victories until they move to another team.
  • The Shack?
  • TusherTusher Posts: 2,762
    Don't Rabobank have a good developmental structure? And they stuck by their young rider- ??Reis Someone who had a serious head injury and was leading the ToB last year, sorry, his name is on the tip of my tongue. But I would rate Rabo pretty highly for young riders.

    Bjaerne Riis has stuck by Jonny Bellis under similar circumstances.
  • afx237viafx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Kai Reus.
  • TusherTusher Posts: 2,762
    Thankyou afx, you have a brain the size of a small planet.

    I knew his name when I started typing, but 20 seconds later could not remember it.
    I blame work.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,774 Lives Here
    Tusher wrote:
    Don't Rabobank have a good developmental structure? And they stuck by their young rider- ??Reis Someone who had a serious head injury and was leading the ToB last year, sorry, his name is on the tip of my tongue. But I would rate Rabo pretty highly for young riders.

    Bjaerne Riis has stuck by Jonny Bellis under similar circumstances.

    Rabo young riders have all the potential, then make it to the senior team and become average to middling pros.

    Posthuma was, apparantly, a supermega talent, and was tipped for all sorts.

    There are often discussions in Holland, a bit like the French, about what happens to their riders when they hit 23.
  • KléberKléber Posts: 6,842
    Tusher wrote:
    Don't Rabobank have a good developmental structure?
    Rabo sign riders who are already scoring big numbers in wattages etc but this means they sometimes miss the raw talent. Signing someone who is effectively the world turbo trainer champion is not automatically the best thing. Plus there's a terrible smell, news from Vienna will shed more light on where the whiff is coming from.

    The French teams can be good but look how the missed the biggest signings of 2010, as far as French riders go, of Romain Sicard and JC Peraud, both couldn't get a ride in France. FDJ and Bouygues seem fun places but the management style is like a family, it's nice if you fit in but not set up right for everyone.

    Cofidis especially is a good place and has excellent coaching staff - note how Chavanel has pretty much gone backwards from his great 2008 season at Cofidis when he was coached by their full time rider. Today at QS he has no coach.

    QS is a miserable place, the dour Lefevre seems to copy the Peter Post methods of the past but this doesn't work well with modern riders who want some individuality.

    Garmin are doing well and their clean attitude is encouraging. HTC are good but a harsh environment, you will not get many chances to shine if your day job is chasing down breakaways for Cav (and Greipel).

    The Italian squads are a bit hit and miss. Liquigas have some great young riders but can they look after them well? After signing the likes of Da Ros, I'm worried for the likes of Sagan.

    If I was a 21 year old talent, I'd pick Garmin or Cofidis... or whoever paid me loads of money. Apparently Peter Sagan said no to Quickstep because they offered him the UCI neo-pro minimum wage. Lefevre must be waking up every day kicking himself.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,774 Lives Here
    Kleber, Chavanel's 'voorjaar' (i.e. season before the Giro) was bloody mega last year!
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,774 Lives Here
    HTC anyone?

    Cavendish did pretty well.

    Boasson Hagen seemed to do well too.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,774 Lives Here
    Also, Kleber, why so hard on Levefre?

    His team have been pretty damn successful at what they set out to do over the years (i.e. classics).
  • TusherTusher Posts: 2,762
    Yes, he has his successes, but Levefre's methods are just looking a little old fashioned these days.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,774 Lives Here
    Tusher wrote:
    Yes, he has his successes, but Levefre's methods are just looking a little old fashioned these days.

    Doesn't stop them winning...
  • TusherTusher Posts: 2,762
    True, true.

    But how attractive is he to a young neo-pro?

    Welll, on the other hand,II suppose any contract is attractive to a young neo-pro.
  • TusherTusher Posts: 2,762
    Just thinking, but how old can a neo-pro be?

    Iain? afx?anyone? who's been the oldest to sign a neo-pro contract?
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,458
    Tusher wrote:
    Just thinking, but how old can a neo-pro be?

    Iain? afx?anyone? who's been the oldest to sign a neo-pro contract?

    Well JC Peraud, mentioned earlier, is 33 next month.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • TusherTusher Posts: 2,762
    33? Wow. I'm impressed.
    Many thanks for that info, Rich
  • KléberKléber Posts: 6,842
    Also, Kleber, why so hard on Levefre?

    His team have been pretty damn successful at what they set out to do over the years (i.e. classics).
    What did Chavanel win in 2009? One stage in Paris-Nice and the ENECO prologue. I'm being hard on Levefre because he has a big budget but doesn't deliver the results. QS doesn't have a coach, the riders are left to train for themselves. How can they hope to improve without a coach? Cofidis's coach turned Chavanel into a classics contender.

    Plus Levefre's a disciplinarian, that's not something many riders can cope with these days, management styles have moved on. Riders are not schoolboys, a good manager today is able to talk to a rider on the same level (as well as knowing when to give the rider a kick).

    Not that Levefre is disastrous, just that he's getting on and the team will not improve. Why on earth doesn't the team have a coach?
  • LangerDanLangerDan Posts: 6,132
    RichN95 wrote:
    Tusher wrote:
    Just thinking, but how old can a neo-pro be?

    Iain? afx?anyone? who's been the oldest to sign a neo-pro contract?

    Well JC Peraud, mentioned earlier, is 33 next month.

    I'll see your JC Peraud and raise you Helmut Wechselberger who won the Tour De Suisse in1988 only turned pro in 87, when he was 34.
    'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'
  • FJSFJS Posts: 4,820
    I do think Rabobank's Continental team is a relatively good young riders programme, but the Pro Tour team doesn't seem to be as good in turning them into effective pro's later on in their career as it used to be... but then, with the Vienna revelations on former riders, perhaps that's not always a bad thing...
    There is a but of a trend now though of some of the real Rabo Continental talents to go elsewhere - Kreder, Van Garderen this year, Maaskant earlier
  • LangerDan wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Tusher wrote:
    Just thinking, but how old can a neo-pro be?

    Iain? afx?anyone? who's been the oldest to sign a neo-pro contract?

    Well JC Peraud, mentioned earlier, is 33 next month.

    I'll see your JC Peraud and raise you Helmut Wechselberger who won the Tour De Suisse in1988 only turned pro in 87, when he was 34.

    Not quite as old as the above but Ludo Dierckxsons (sp?) worked at spraypainting trucks whilst racing as an amateur, before finally getting his break aged 31.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • KléberKléber Posts: 6,842
    Dierckxsens turned pro but went back to the amateurs before signing again. More recently another Lotto ride did the same, he was working as a builder before signing again. If you're playing this game then Lance Armstrong and Gibo Simoni are two riders to turn pro very late.
  • Kléber wrote:
    Dierckxsens turned pro but went back to the amateurs before signing again. More recently another Lotto ride did the same, he was working as a builder before signing again. If you're playing this game then Lance Armstrong and Gibo Simoni are two riders to turn pro very late.

    I put it in the wrong thread :oops:
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • mididoctorsmididoctors Posts: 10,274
    Kléber wrote:
    Dierckxsens turned pro but went back to the amateurs before signing again. More recently another Lotto ride did the same, he was working as a builder before signing again. If you're playing this game then Lance Armstrong and Gibo Simoni are two riders to turn pro very late.

    Herve is the oldest genuine neopro i can think of..
    28 IIRC
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
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