Valverde in the Basque Country?!

pedro118118

Can anyone out there please explain to me why Valverde is allowed to continue to compete in, and more infuriatingly, continue to win professional bike races?!

I thought that CAS had upheld CONI's two-year ban, paving the way for the UCI to impose a worldwide ban for his 'alledged' involvement in Puerto?

Surely the [clean element of the] peleton can't be happy?
And what must Ivan Basso be feeling, having sat out two years of his prime, whilst Valv.Piti has been building up his [now dubious] palmares and milking a handsome contract to boot?!

You couldn't make this stuff up!

Gingerflash

Because he's a Spanish hero and the Spanish don't really care that much. :-(

Eurosport's position on doping and dopers, at best "neutral", bugs me too. They seem scared of mentioning the subject even in relation to someone who's been found guilty, banned etc. Presumably it's for the sake of advertisers.

calvjones

pedro118118 wrote:

Can anyone out there please explain to me why Valverde is allowed to continue to compete in, and more infuriatingly, continue to win professional bike races?!

I thought that CAS had upheld CONI's two-year ban, paving the way for the UCI to impose a worldwide ban for his 'alledged' involvement in Puerto?

Surely the [clean element of the] peloton can't be happy?
And what must Ivan Basso be feeling, having sat out two years of his prime, whilst Valv.Piti has been building up his [now dubious] palmares and milking a handsome contract to boot?!

You couldn't make this stuff up!

He just hasn't been worldwide banned yet.

Kléber

Exactly, Pedro. Valverde looks like a prat, it's only thanks to lawyers and playing one sporting body off another that he's still on the road.

But a CAS ruling is expected very soon, it's one reason I didn't pick him for the PTP contest, as the ruling could see him pulled out mid-race.

pedro118118

But what about the team - do they have no shame?

They have a star rider - a team leader, who has been banned (at least in Italy) for doping offences. A worldwide ban is [by most accounts] in the post.

Yet he and the team continue to stick two fingers up at the rest?!

If Caisse had any ethical stance at all, surely they would've suspended Valverde from racing following the decision by CAS?

I find this whole debacle far more infuriating than the return of Riccardo Ricco.
A complete joke.

Kléber

I suppose the counter-argument is that since Valverde hasn't been found guilty of actual doping offences, he can't be banned. But since the DNA and nicknames match, it is merely a matter of procedural cock-up that means he hasn't been stopped. The UCI are finally trying to persuade CAS that the evidence is sufficient to impose a full ban.

But try that at Caisse d'Epargne, the bank. If there were rumours a member of staff siphoned off some client's money into their own account, they'd be suspended immediately.

sherer

I think this case and others that are similar shows how stupid it is to have a national body run the doping tests as why on earth would they ban Valverde who as GingerFlash says is a national hero.

We see it with smaller nations at the Olympics too why ban your one chance of a gold medal

greeny12

I'm really surprised that Caisse the sponsor haven't ordered Caisse the team to pull him, as Rabo head office did with Rasmussen.

I know it's their last year in the sport and all that, but surely the bad publicity once he is finally banned worldwide does their reputation no good at all?

It's a weird situation and does nothing for pro cycling's reputation either.

pedro118118

What is clear is that Valverde is hiding behind a technicality. I don't recall Ivan Basso ever testing positive, but eventually he resigned himself to the fact that the evidence was overwhelming and constant denials were leaving him without any credibility and the time had come to man up.

I can only assume that Valverde is prolonging the innevitable, as a two-year ban at his age would effectively mean early retirement. So why not squeeze every pip out of what time he has left on the bike?

Given his undoubted talent on the bike, it is, actually, a big shame that his palmares will, forever, have an * against them.

calvjones

pedro118118 wrote:

What is clear is that Valverde is hiding behind a technicality. I don't recall Ivan Basso ever testing positive, but eventually he resigned himself to the fact that the evidence was overwhelming and constant denials were leaving him without any credibility and the time had come to man up.

I can only assume that Valverde is prolonging the innevitable, as a two-year ban at his age would effectively mean early retirement. So why not squeeze every pip out of what time he has left on the bike?

Given his undoubted talent on the bike, it is, actually, a big shame that his palmares will, forever, have an * against them.

Early retirement? At 32? Cripes, how old do you want me to feel?

sherer

pedro118118 wrote:

What is clear is that Valverde is hiding behind a technicality. I don't recall Ivan Basso ever testing positive, but eventually he resigned himself to the fact that the evidence was overwhelming and constant denials were leaving him without any credibility and the time had come to man up.

I can only assume that Valverde is prolonging the innevitable, as a two-year ban at his age would effectively mean early retirement. So why not squeeze every pip out of what time he has left on the bike?

Given his undoubted talent on the bike, it is, actually, a big shame that his palmares will, forever, have an * against them.

Didn't Basso come out and say he hadn't doped but he thought he might in the future hence he had the blood bags just in case. I believed that one

SpaceJunk

Personally I get annoyed to see him on the road, and angry when he wins.

But then I think, my angst should be directed at the governing bodies.

If I was Valverde and realised I was probably about to face a 2 year ban (let's hope its 4), I'd be trying to make hay whilst the sun shines too, figuratively speaking.

pedro118118

calvjones wrote:

pedro118118 wrote:

What is clear is that Valverde is hiding behind a technicality. I don't recall Ivan Basso ever testing positive, but eventually he resigned himself to the fact that the evidence was overwhelming and constant denials were leaving him without any credibility and the time had come to man up.

I can only assume that Valverde is prolonging the innevitable, as a two-year ban at his age would effectively mean early retirement. So why not squeeze every pip out of what time he has left on the bike?

Given his undoubted talent on the bike, it is, actually, a big shame that his palmares will, forever, have an * against them.

Early retirement? At 32? Cripes, how old do you want me to feel?

I suppose 'retirement' was a slight over-statement! That said, by the time he comes back he would be well off the pace, having not raced for two years, but, perhaps more importantly, the chances of securing a good contract with a major ProTour team would be limited, as he'd be branded 'cheat'. Then again, I suppose the likes of Liquigas, Lampre etc...

Pross

In the event that he does finally get banned will he be stripped of any wins from this period of racing?

takethehighroad

That's what I've always wondered, because these charges are from around 2006, the evidence being proven in July 2008, so technically if Valv is given a two year ban he can then turn round and say "well you can't prove I've not been clean since July '08"

One thing's for sure. It's a mess.

Kléber

No, he'll likely keep the wins - and the winnings - but it's obvious to many that he's a shyster.

rick_chasey

Isn't the consensus that he's riding clean now? Post puerto?

Kléber

Who knows? If you think he's cheated in the past then by definition you must think his pants are on fire. If he can't talk straight and draw a line under the past, who can trust him today?

The sooner the CAS rules - either way - the better. The sport can't see one of its top riders continue to race whilst under such a cloud of suspicion.

blazing_saddles

Rick Chasey wrote:

Isn't the consensus that he's riding clean now? Post puerto?

Have we witnessed any drop of form in Spain? Personally, I'd say the opposite.
He's every bit as good as the 2006 version.
So, either:
a) he's still at it and the passport system has failed in his case.
b) he was never at it, but was only thinking about it, since it's his DNA matched EPO blood bags.
c) he really doesn't need it, as it doesn't effect his form.

FOAD

Gingerflash wrote:

Eurosport's position on doping and dopers, at best "neutral", bugs me too. They seem scared of mentioning the subject even in relation to someone who's been found guilty, banned etc. Presumably it's for the sake of advertisers.

It is no suprise that Eurosport adopt the neutral position and refer often to a missing 2 years in a rider's career as "had 2 years away from the sport".

Kelly is commentating, so Harmon can hardly slag off dopers, and then they have Roche back in the studio, so again they can't mention it there.

takethehighroad

He mentions it now and again, just in passing remarks, that let the learned fan know what he's on about without tarnishing the sport to the casual follower.

For example, yesterday, when talking about Mancebo's style Magnus said "He seemed to go faster with his twisted style" to which David replied "Well we all know it was more than that as well"

stjohnswell

Valverde probably sees himself surrounded by cheats, liars and hippocrites in the peleton so his motivation to fall on his sword must be low. What would it achieve? The circus would just move on to the next suspect.

I've been picking him for PTP because his form is worth it. That's probably the same reason Caisse pick him. I'd like to hear anyone's opinion regarding how Valverde negatively impacts the strength of Caisse brand. Likewise if you have any examples of Caisse being materially affected by loss of business due to the presence of Valv.Piti it would be interesting to hear about those too.

calvjones

stjohnswell wrote:

Valverde probably sees himself surrounded by cheats, liars and hippocrites in the peloton so his motivation to fall on his sword must be low. What would it achieve? The circus would just move on to the next suspect.

I've been picking him for PTP because his form is worth it. That's probably the same reason Caisse pick him. I'd like to hear anyone's opinion regarding how Valverde negatively impacts the strength of Caisse brand. Likewise if you have any examples of Caisse being materially affected by loss of business due to the presence of Valv.Piti it would be interesting to hear about those too.

Surely the fundamental question is whether Caisse actually increased its business due to cycle sponsorship? If you don't know that, it'll be hard to assess the Valv.piti effect.

Kléber

I'd think twice about putting my savings into any imaginary bank that shelters fraudsters and rewards crooks. You?

stjohnswell

calvjones wrote:

Surely the fundamental question is whether Caisse actually increased its business due to cycle sponsorship? If you don't know that, it'll be hard to assess the Valv.piti effect.

But brand awareness has been raised, surely? Pro cycling comes with a bountiful supplty of FTA coverage right across europe. I admit, I smiled to myself when I saw some bags of Mapei grout in B&Q and 'Ker-ching' it's now on our kitchen floor. Thats the kind of connection they're hoping to make.

That said, I'm sure Caisse will drop him when an effective suspension is enforced. His contract will no longer represent good value.

andyp

I think Caisse knew exactly what they were doing when the chose to sponsor a Spanish team managed by Eusebio Unzue rather than a French team.

For them to complain now would be a little rich.

As for Klebér's comment above.

greeny12

I think it's a pity that the promised "clean sweep" of new sponsors jumping on the doping free bandwagon post-Slipstream/Garmin seems to have ground to a halt.

Maybe the marketing honchos think there's insufficient differentiation in that stance and that Garmin already have it sewn up? Even for them the anti-doping stuff seems so business as usual now it hardly gets a mention.

Or maybe it's still just too damn difficult to win clean regularly enough in today's pro peloton? Although Garmin's recent burst would indicate otherwise..

stjohnswell

Kléber wrote:

I'd think twice about putting my savings into any imaginary bank that shelters fraudsters and rewards crooks. You?

Choosing a bank that shares one's own ethics is nigh on impossible. I'd love to see your shortlist and I'd be delighted if you actually banked with one of them.

Kléber

True, but I'd be extra-careful of companies that use their marketing budgets to support shysters.

But the likes of Ag2r and Rabobank are respectable places for people to put savings, as long as you're French or Dutch.

takethehighroad

Very off topic, but I like the idea of Natwest teaching kids about budgeting.

As for CdE, I banked witht hem when I lived in France, and they offered the best interest rates at the time, pure and simple. Good customer service and rewards scheme too

mroli

Choosing a bank that shares one's own ethics is nigh on impossible. I'd love to see your shortlist and I'd be delighted if you actually banked with one of them.

Co-Op Bank.

And I do.