Cancellara's big 5 aim.

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Comments

  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    The difference is that Canc has already shown a stunning performance on a very hilly parcous: the Mendrisio world Champs.

    A full year focussing on those kind of hills, given the way he can focus on a race so entirely, and I think he could beat that performance in Mendriso.

    Not sure you got my point. Do you not think that the other contenders are not currently focusing and training on Liege/Lombardy and have been doing so for years? I think there are lots of riders who are better suited than Cancellara for these two races. But don't get my wrong, as I said before, I think it would be great for him to try. We need riders to think big and try different things rather than just doing the same races year in year out.

    But they are not as talented!!

    Its a horses for courses thing though isnt it i would imagine most times Valverde or Cunego or the Brothers Grim could skip away from Fab during a hilly tarmac classic.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,096
    As long as RCS continue to use the current Lombardy route I can't see him winning there. The final climb, which is almost always decisive in deciding the race, suits a punchy, explosive rider, like Bettini, Cunego or Gilbert, not a turbo diesel like Cancellara.
  • paulcuthbert
    paulcuthbert Posts: 1,016
    dougzz wrote:
    Chris Hoy is a one trick pony, Cancellara for more talented as a bike rider.


    +1

    If Cancellara uses the same kinda power that we saw yesterday, setting the pace at the head of the peloton on the Alps or Pyrenees in the Tour in July, I don't think you can aruge that Andy Schleck is in with a big big chance
    The most painful climb in Northern Ireland http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs200.snc1/6776_124247198694_548863694_2335754_8016178_n.jpg
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    There's no way that he can win L-B-L - unless of course he's on the same programme that Voigt was on with CSC? Maybe he'll call his old mucker Cecchini from his Fassa days or take a trip to St Moritz? The course is way more hilly that the TV coverage would indicate - there's more climbing than most alpine stages in the Tour. Last year's world's demonstrated that he can't hang onto a half-decent climber
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,530
    Monty Dog wrote:
    There's no way that he can win L-B-L - unless of course he's on the same programme that Voigt was on with CSC? Maybe he'll call his old mucker Cecchini from his Fassa days or take a trip to St Moritz? The course is way more hilly that the TV coverage would indicate - there's more climbing than most alpine stages in the Tour. Last year's world's demonstrated that he can't hang onto a half-decent climber

    In Mendrisio Cancellara beat:

    6 Philippe Gilbert (Belgium) 0:00:51
    7 Matti Breschel (Denmark)
    8 Damiano Cunego (Italy)
    9 Alejandro Valverde Belmonte (Spain)
    10 Simon Gerrans (Australia) 0:01:47
    11 Fabian Wegmann (Germany)
    12 Kurt-Asle Arvesen (Norway)
    13 Chris Sörensen (Denmark) 0:01:59
    14 Johnny Hoogerland (Netherlands) 0:02:02
    15 Oscar Freire Gomez (Spain)
    16 Ivan Basso (Italy)
    17 Andre Fernando S. Martins Cardoso (Portugal) 0:02:44
    18 Michael Barry (Canada)
    19 Serguei Ivanov (Russian Federation)
    20 Karsten Kroon (Netherlands) 0:02:50

    Some of them have won Ardenne style races!
    _
  • dougzz
    dougzz Posts: 1,833
    sparky24 wrote:
    of course he can win them. a strong and smart guy like fabien will do what ever it takes to win. we are talking about a olympic and world champion . i wish you guys could witness first hand how hard these guys and girls train.

    Statements like this are there to be shot at. Does anyone here doubt how hard these people train, whether or not it's witnessed first hand.

    "will do what ever it takes to win" I think there's testing to stop that sort of thing :wink:


    Personally I can't see him winning LBL or Lombardia.
  • Moontrane
    Moontrane Posts: 233
    Cancellara was an instigator in the World’s RR last year, showing that he can be competitive in a hilly race. I think he’ll ride for LBL next year, but possibly Lombardia this year. Where the climbs are and their steepness make a difference, but here are some stats for both the world’s course and L-B-L:

    L-B-L
    http://www.slipstreamsports.com/2009/05 ... ogne-liege
    162 miles,
    elevation gain 4,245 meters =13,929 feet


    2009 WC
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/76th-u ... -road-race
    162.9 miles
    elevation gain 4,655 meters = 15,273 feet
    Infinite diversity, infinte variations
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,530
    Moontrane wrote:
    Cancellara was an instigator in the World’s RR last year, showing that he can be competitive in a hilly race. I think he’ll ride for LBL next year, but possibly Lombardia this year. Where the climbs are and their steepness make a difference, but here are some stats for both the world’s course and L-B-L:

    L-B-L
    http://www.slipstreamsports.com/2009/05 ... ogne-liege
    162 miles,
    elevation gain 4,245 meters =13,929 feet


    2009 WC
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/76th-u ... -road-race
    162.9 miles
    elevation gain 4,655 meters = 15,273 feet

    Exactly!
    _
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,147
    dougzz wrote:
    Chris Hoy is a one trick pony, Cancellara for more talented as a bike rider.

    What the hell has Chris Hoy to do with anything? He's not a road rider and one of the best track riders of all time. He's not a one trick pony either - he's won Olympic Gold in four different events.

    You are clearly an idiot (as is Paul Cuthert for agreeing with you). Idiots of the really 'special' kind. I really can't emphasise enough how stupid you are.

    But I'll try... You're incredibly stupid. Seriously, an absolute numskull.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    Moontrane wrote:
    Cancellara was an instigator in the World’s RR last year, showing that he can be competitive in a hilly race. I think he’ll ride for LBL next year, but possibly Lombardia this year. Where the climbs are and their steepness make a difference, but here are some stats for both the world’s course and L-B-L:

    L-B-L
    http://www.slipstreamsports.com/2009/05 ... ogne-liege
    162 miles,
    elevation gain 4,245 meters =13,929 feet


    2009 WC
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/76th-u ... -road-race
    162.9 miles
    elevation gain 4,655 meters = 15,273 feet

    Not sure the worlds can be compared to L-B-L though, they are different style races, however, it does show that Cancellara can be competitive over lots of short climbs, for further evidence just have a look at the Olympics, difficult hilly course, and he had an amazing race.

    I think he could do it, you have to remember that although he might lose time up hills he is the kind of rider who can gain it on descents, plus he is Cacellara, and he has done some amazing things on a bike!!
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    Why would Saxo Bank choose Cancellara for L-B-L or Lombardy when he has the Schlecks?

    The World Champs 2009 is no comparison to either of these monuments, as (using Moontrane's course profiles) there is not a single climb which gains more than 150m on the course, and as far as I can remember the hills weren't as steep (correct me if I'm wrong).
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Moontrane wrote:
    Cancellara was an instigator in the World’s RR last year, showing that he can be competitive in a hilly race. I think he’ll ride for LBL next year, but possibly Lombardia this year. Where the climbs are and their steepness make a difference, but here are some stats for both the world’s course and L-B-L:

    L-B-L
    http://www.slipstreamsports.com/2009/05 ... ogne-liege
    162 miles,
    elevation gain 4,245 meters =13,929 feet


    2009 WC
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/76th-u ... -road-race
    162.9 miles
    elevation gain 4,655 meters = 15,273 feet

    Exactly!

    If only it were that simple you have to compare like with like the WC is a circuit race where the same hill is covered over a dozen times or so LBL and particularly Lombardy has longer climbs often in quick succesion where he would struggle to contain an attack by a punchy rider like Valverde,Cunego,Schleck etc. For instance i could see him being dropped on climbs such as the Civiglio or San Fermo della Battaglia. Fab is a brilliant rider but lets not get too carried away here and turn him into something he is not.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 16,776
    he is 29!...seems like he has been around for longer than that..

    I wouldn't write him off he has a knack of getting what he aims for..

    anybody who can race 260km and solo the last 10km at a tad under 60kmh has got to be taken seriously .. I timed him myself. I could hardly believe what i was watching. Was that really humanly possible?

    29...he has time to give it a few goes
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,530
    Moray Gub wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Moontrane wrote:
    Cancellara was an instigator in the World’s RR last year, showing that he can be competitive in a hilly race. I think he’ll ride for LBL next year, but possibly Lombardia this year. Where the climbs are and their steepness make a difference, but here are some stats for both the world’s course and L-B-L:

    L-B-L
    http://www.slipstreamsports.com/2009/05 ... ogne-liege
    162 miles,
    elevation gain 4,245 meters =13,929 feet


    2009 WC
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/76th-u ... -road-race
    162.9 miles
    elevation gain 4,655 meters = 15,273 feet

    Exactly!

    If only it were that simple you have to compare like with like the WC is a circuit race where the same hill is covered over a dozen times or so LBL and particularly Lombardy has longer climbs often in quick succesion where he would struggle to contain an attack by a punchy rider like Valverde,Cunego,Schleck etc. For instance i could see him being dropped on climbs such as the Civiglio or San Fermo della Battaglia. Fab is a brilliant rider but lets not get too carried away here and turn him into something he is not.

    Hey, we're not. He's the one claiming he can!
    _
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    Wasn't he going to win the Tour a couple of years back?

    Sure, he could win LBL or Lombardy; after all, Hincapie won a mountaintop TdF finish. His problem will be that he's very likely to be on teams with better prospects, yet will be marked by other contendors due to his dangerousness.

    I could see him winning LBL from a small break with a few other favourites marking each other & cautious on the latter Cotes, but if he trains to be in that sort of shape, he's giving up a probable evens chance of another Flanders or Roubaix for a long shot at Liege.

    Slightly OT, but is he still with Cecchini, and if not how the hell is he so much better now than then?
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,530
    calvjones wrote:
    Wasn't he going to win the Tour a couple of years back?

    Sure, he could win LBL or Lombardy; after all, Hincapie won a mountaintop TdF finish. His problem will be that he's very likely to be on teams with better prospects, yet will be marked by other contendors due to his dangerousness.

    I could see him winning LBL from a small break with a few other favourites marking each other & cautious on the latter Cotes, but if he trains to be in that sort of shape, he's giving up a probable evens chance of another Flanders or Roubaix for a long shot at Liege.

    Slightly OT, but is he still with Cecchini, and if not how the hell is he so much better now than then?

    I can't see a really massive difference between Canc now and 3 years ago.

    That run into Milan-San Remo was pretty mega.

    He was also stunning in Switzerland last year.

    He's been rinsing everyone in TTs for years.

    I'd say he's coming into his peak age range.
    _
  • dougzz
    dougzz Posts: 1,833
    RichN95 wrote:
    dougzz wrote:
    Chris Hoy is a one trick pony, Cancellara for more talented as a bike rider.

    What the hell has Chris Hoy to do with anything? He's not a road rider and one of the best track riders of all time. He's not a one trick pony either - he's won Olympic Gold in four different events.

    You are clearly an idiot (as is Paul Cuthert for agreeing with you). Idiots of the really 'special' kind. I really can't emphasise enough how stupid you are.

    But I'll try... You're incredibly stupid. Seriously, an absolute numskull.

    Perhaps if you read the thread properly you'd have a new take on who is the idiot. It was a response to a previous posting :) I think for you to make such absolute judgements from one 15 word posting is wonderful, RickN95, my respect for you is boundless
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Hey, we're not. He's the one claiming he can!
    "My dream is five monuments and I have three now. There aren’t so many riders in the peloton that have three. My motivation is always geared towards more than one race. Okay, now I have [Flanders], but in the next few years, it's possible I'm going to work on other ones."

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cancell ... -monuments

    He doesn't claim he can, just that's it's possible and is maybe something he's going to work towards.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,530
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Hey, we're not. He's the one claiming he can!
    "My dream is five monuments and I have three now. There aren’t so many riders in the peloton that have three. My motivation is always geared towards more than one race. Okay, now I have [Flanders], but in the next few years, it's possible I'm going to work on other ones."

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cancell ... -monuments

    He doesn't claim he can, just that's it's possible and is maybe something he's going to work towards.

    I saw the interview on Sporza. He said he can!
    _
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    calvjones wrote:
    Wasn't he going to win the Tour a couple of years back?

    Sure, he could win LBL or Lombardy; after all, Hincapie won a mountaintop TdF finish. His problem will be that he's very likely to be on teams with better prospects, yet will be marked by other contendors due to his dangerousness.

    I could see him winning LBL from a small break with a few other favourites marking each other & cautious on the latter Cotes, but if he trains to be in that sort of shape, he's giving up a probable evens chance of another Flanders or Roubaix for a long shot at Liege.

    Slightly OT, but is he still with Cecchini, and if not how the hell is he so much better now than then?

    I can't see a really massive difference between Canc now and 3 years ago.

    That run into Milan-San Remo was pretty mega.

    He was also stunning in Switzerland last year.

    He's been rinsing everyone in TTs for years.

    I'd say he's coming into his peak age range.

    True enough.

    So if he worked with Luigi at Fassa and CSC, when did he stop? Anyone know? Maybe when Cecc was linked to Fuentes?
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    calvjones wrote:
    So if he worked with Luigi at Fassa and CSC, when did he stop? Anyone know? Maybe when Cecc was linked to Fuentes?

    I'm not sure he has stopped.

    Have a look at CFA's last tweet :wink:
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    I'm not sure Clasicomano was Cancellara. Different sources put different names in the mix, Flecha and Bettini are also linked as they were Cecchini clients.
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    I saw the interview on Sporza. He said he can!

    OK, fair enough, I'll have to see if I can find that on Sporza videozone as you haven't provided a link (can't do that right now as I'm at work). But just because he says he can, doesn't mean that he will. He might be wrong you know! Has he ridden either Liege or Lombardy?

    Anyway, you seem pretty convinced, you'd better get down the bookmakers and see if you can get some good odds :D
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    I believe RC was simply answering your "He doesn't claim he can". He does.
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    DaveyL wrote:
    I believe RC was simply answering your "He doesn't claim he can". He does.

    Err, yes, thanks for that. I did realise what he was saying?
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    You're welcome :D
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    DaveyL wrote:
    You're welcome :D

    Awesome! As your in such a helpful mood, car needs a wash :D
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    Steady on, my MTB has been caked for weeks and I can't even face doing that!
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • sparky24
    sparky24 Posts: 195
    fabien is a rider who wants to win major one day classics , along with his week long stage races and world and olympic titles. BUT he is not the type of champion who wishes to win 2 or 3 flanders or milan san remo,s. he likes to set new goals and works towards those new goals. belive him when he says he will win LBL or amstel.
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Hey, we're not. He's the one claiming he can!
    "My dream is five monuments and I have three now. There aren’t so many riders in the peloton that have three. My motivation is always geared towards more than one race. Okay, now I have [Flanders], but in the next few years, it's possible I'm going to work on other ones."

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cancell ... -monuments

    He doesn't claim he can, just that's it's possible and is maybe something he's going to work towards.

    I saw the interview on Sporza. He said he can!

    Ok he says he can and you agree with him and i dont..........it happens :wink:
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !

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