saddle height ups and downs

radiojaja

sorry if this is in the wrong place...

anyway, question on saddle height and general set up

over the last few weeks ive noticed a pain in the right knee, especially under heavy pedaling

ive put up with it, thinking it was age and fitness related, but ive just been out on a fast 10 miler, mostly road cycle / bridle path sort of thing - good speeds and plenty of hills for that extra bite!

sure enough, the knee started to ache away. so i had a thought and raised the saddle a little

well, the knee pain went away but was replaced with lower back pain!

after a few miles of struggle, i put the seat back to the original height (or more or less the original height) thinking maybe my back was playing up, and it was unrelated to the new saddle height

the back pain went! but, you've guessed it, the knee pain came back!

the question is - do i just have to persevere with fiddling till i get a height where neither hurts?

or is going to be a choice of which pain to endure!

is there another element of bike set up i should be looking at? bar height or whatever?

any advice gratefully received! thanks all ....

supersonic

Yes, keep fiddling!

Once you have the knee sorted, maybe look at where the weight is on your back and how higher (or lower) bars and stem could help.

Also try sliding the saddle on the rails - moving further forward towards the bars will place more weight on your wrists and less on the back.

ravey1981

How much adjustment are we talking here?

For "general" trail riding/xc saddle height should be set so that you're leg is slightly bent at the knee when pedal is at the bottom of its stroke. If this position causes you back pain try sliding the saddle forward (opening up the angle between your're torso and legs) and/or raising the bars with a higher stem/moving stem spacers or even using a shorter stem.

There is no definitive answer as everyone is different, the back pain could be just be because you were getting used to a new position.

As a guide set the saddle position first and then move the bars until you are in a comfortable riding position.

radiojaja

that makes sense, and i look forward to pain free riding! at some point anyway...

ive got the saddle right on the back of the rails, so its as far forward as it can get, its also slightly pointed up, to prevent me slipping off! :oops:

so maybe stem length or bar height would be next?

the stem is about 16cm / 160mm from the back of the fitting on the headset to the front of the fitting round the bars - is that long? too long? or too short?

when you say spacers, i assume that is spacers inside the headset? is that a DIY job for a novice? i managed to change my bars and grips and a few other odds and sods, but anything techy goes to the LBS!

the bars are also 'swept back' a tad, maybe i can sweep them back further? or push them away more?

any ideas if thats a good idea?

thanks again!

bobpzero

may we have a side view of bike and you on it,feet of pedals with cranks parallel please?
check for usual bits - level saddle, saddle nose pointing straight at headset. adjust the height of seatpost in really small bits. other suggestion would be low riser handlebar.

radiojaja

i'm afraid pics are a bit beyond me! ive only just managed to get an interweb thingy sorted

i'll try incremental seatpost and check the other points

low riser handle bar to drop the height of the handle bars? does altering the spacers get the same effect, i really like the handlebars as they are! :oops:

bobpzero

as long as saddle is slightly below the headset, that helps keep the lower back pain free. sorry supersonic's advice is probably all you will need.

radiojaja

thanks guys!

Enduro 07

bobpzero Posted: 22 Mar 2010 20:02 Post subject:
as long as saddle is slightly below the headset, that helps keep the lower back pain free. sorry supersonic's advice is probably all you will need.



How on earth is the saddle going to be below the headset, if your running the saddle at the right height for pedalling efficiency?

Like everyone else has said get the saddle height right first then play around with the stem and bars, I prefer a nice low front end and this doesn't affect my back but your probably going to be different, just try adjusting one thing at a time to see what works rather than lots of adjustments

CycloRos

Enduro 07 wrote:

How on earth is the saddle going to be below the headset, if your running the saddle at the right height for pedalling efficiency?

you'll find this to be true and also rather comfortable on many 29er bikes.

Enduro 07 wrote:

just try adjusting one thing at a time to see what works rather than lots of adjustments

that's sound advice.

just keep on tweeking, you know you've nailed it then all you have to do is resist the urge to continue tinkering (no you don't want those carbon bars!)

bomberesque

I have found proper back stretches help a great deal with lower back pain.

Ashtanga yoga is particularly effective for me, but there's tons of alternatives out there.

cee

I really struggle with my back.

core stability excercise (yoga is brilliant for core stability) are the way forward.

I use one of these ball things...I do the various routines, like crunches etc, but also just standing on the thing watching tv for an hour a day will work wonders for your core.

saw a good line on a mtb specific fitness course....."you can't fire a cannon from a canoe"

I reckon some of the stuff this guy talks about is really good.

http://www.bikejames.com

ride_whenever

^ you can fire a cannon from a canoe, but only forwards or backwards.

TBH i'd try and sort out your saddle heights, do it iteratively in 5mm increments to start.

If you cannot find a comfy position go to a bike shop to see if there is something glaringly wrong with your position, take biscuits.

Once they're covered look for muscle weakness, see a sports physio who will be able to help you diagnose any underlying cause, probably hip flexor tightness especially considering the low saddle causing knee pain (placing money on the rectus femoris)

radiojaja

(placing money on the rectus femoris) :shock:

thanks all, the back pain was the first time ive experienced it in this way, and only came about when i raised the saddle and went when i dropped it again

seems like maybe more saddle adjustment, and a play with bar height might be the way forward?

despite what ive said there, ive always had a dodgy back, so i do lots of core work in the gym and all that, it certainly helps

this felt different in that it went as soon as the saddle came back down

i also know i have limited flexibility in the hip flexors, so i'll look into working on that too

ride_whenever

The other thing is overreaching, as you raise the saddle, it will move back a small amount, this could just tip you over the edge. Try setting your saddle to the 'correct' height, (leg straight with the heel on the pedal at the bottom of the revolution) then try moving it forward 5mm.

ashmin

hey if you are suffering with the back pain then i will suggest you to start using yoga therapy. it is so useful in such conditions. i have practically experienced it and i hope you will also do so.

radiojaja

thanks ride_whenever, thing is, ive got the saddle as far forward (towards the bars) as it will go

so it maybe the bars / stem is the only thing left to fiddle with!

(and thanks ashmin - good advice!)