No Shack at Giro

andyp

From the CN story Iain linked to above.

Bruyneel looked to appease race director Angelo Zomegnan by suggesting that Armstrong could ride Milan-Sanremo - a race also organised by Giro organiser RCS - if the team is invited to the Grand Tour.

Radioshack don't get an invite to the Giro, thus there is no need to appease Zomegnan anymore so a handy stomach bug means LA can pull out and no harm is done.

moray_gub

andyp wrote:

From the CN story Iain linked to above.

Bruyneel looked to appease race director Angelo Zomegnan by suggesting that Armstrong could ride Milan-Sanremo - a race also organised by Giro organiser RCS - if the team is invited to the Grand Tour.

Radioshack don't get an invite to the Giro, thus there is no need to appease Zomegnan anymore so a handy stomach bug means LA can pull out and no harm is done.

How can you get refused an invite when you were not going then ?

pedro118118

Shack were never interested in taking a team to the Giro, when one of their big targets is the ToC with Levi.

Given their anonymity so far this season, I doubt anybody will notice their absence.

andyp

Moray Gub wrote:

How can you get refused an invite when you were not going then ?

Have you heard of revisionism?

afx237vi

MG is going to like this, but saying "we had no intention of going" is even worse IMO.

Bruyneel says: “I've always believed that to enter a race there needs to be objectives - for both the overall team and individuals. Now we may not always achieve those objectives, but we're not just going to enter races to enter races."

I'm sure riders like Daryl Impey or Geoffroy Lequatre really appreciate that sentiment.

andyp

Given that only two races matter to Bruyneel and LA this season why did they bother to put together a team of 25 riders?

moray_gub

andyp wrote:

Given that only two races matter to Bruyneel and LA this season why did they bother to put together a team of 25 riders?

I am surprised someone with your knowledge of cycling is asking a silly question like that....................then again the LA angle at work i suppose.

greeny12

andyp wrote:

Given that only two races matter to Bruyneel and LA this season why did they bother to put together a team of 25 riders?

That's a fair point. But totally understandable that The Shack are focusing on ToC and TdF all the same.

From a marketing/brand awareness perspective if Levi scoops up California again and Lance makes the headlines and probably the podium in France then it's job done for Radio Shack's sponsorship spend. Anything else is a bonus, and a pretty small one at that, regardless of how we in "old Europe" prize our classics and monuments...

moray_gub

afx237vi wrote:

MG is going to like this, but saying "we had no intention of going" is even worse IMO.

Bruyneel says: “I've always believed that to enter a race there needs to be objectives - for both the overall team and individuals. Now we may not always achieve those objectives, but we're not just going to enter races to enter races."

I'm sure riders like Daryl Impey or Geoffroy Lequatre really appreciate that sentiment.

They didnt say the had no intention of going they said the were not going there is a difference. As for your second point why foucs on RS given that teams have been targetting certain races based on their target market since Christ left Dumbarton !

moray_gub

andyp wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

How can you get refused an invite when you were not going then ?

Have you heard of revisionism?

Yea i learned about it from you.

afx237vi

Moray Gub wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

MG is going to like this, but saying "we had no intention of going" is even worse IMO.

Bruyneel says: “I've always believed that to enter a race there needs to be objectives - for both the overall team and individuals. Now we may not always achieve those objectives, but we're not just going to enter races to enter races."

I'm sure riders like Daryl Impey or Geoffroy Lequatre really appreciate that sentiment.

They didnt say the had no intention of going they said the were not going there is a difference. As for your second point why foucs on RS given that teams have been targetting certain races based on their target market since Christ left Dumbarton !

So sending a letter to race organisers saying you're not going is not the same as saying "we have no intention of going"?

And there's nothing wrong with targetting important races for your sponsor, but most teams do that and ride other races in order to give their younger riders a chance. Why not give Brajkovic a chance at the GC? He's not going to get many other chances this year.

micron

Perhaps RS simply don't have the budget or the back up from the sponsors to be able to have more than one credible team in play at any time?

moray_gub

afx237vi wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

MG is going to like this, but saying "we had no intention of going" is even worse IMO.

Bruyneel says: “I've always believed that to enter a race there needs to be objectives - for both the overall team and individuals. Now we may not always achieve those objectives, but we're not just going to enter races to enter races."

I'm sure riders like Daryl Impey or Geoffroy Lequatre really appreciate that sentiment.

They didnt say the had no intention of going they said the were not going there is a difference. As for your second point why foucs on RS given that teams have been targetting certain races based on their target market since Christ left Dumbarton !

So sending a letter to race organisers saying you're not going is not the same as saying "we have no intention of going"?

And there's nothing wrong with targetting important races for your sponsor, but most teams do that and ride other races in order to give their younger riders a chance. Why not give Brajkovic a chance at the GC? He's not going to get many other chances this year.

No its not the same as one is definite and one is indicating intention........not the same thing at all. As for your other point BBox and Cofidis among others dont ride the Giro at times and nobody bats an eyelid.

blazing_saddles

Moray Gub wrote:

As for your other point BBox and Cofidis among others dont ride the Giro at times and nobody bats an eyelid.

BBox, Cofidis etc don't have the strength in depth for multiple Grand Tours.
It is obscene, that a 25 man squad roster, that is top heavy with 3 week specialists, can't be bothered to cobble together a team for the second biggest race of the year.
They can't even consider giving some of the younger riders the benefit of riding a GT for experience.

All about an Armstrong armchair ride in July and a fledgling US event and very little else.

Lucky for us that the rest of the cycling world can't afford to be so selective as this part time outfit.

moray_gub

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

As for your other point BBox and Cofidis among others dont ride the Giro at times and nobody bats an eyelid.

BBox, Cofidis etc don't have the strength in depth for multiple Grand Tours.
It is obscene, that a 25 man squad roster, that is top heavy with 3 week specialists, can't be bothered to cobble together a team for the second biggest race of the year.
They can't even consider giving some of the younger riders the benefit of riding a GT for experience.

All about an Armstrong armchair ride in July and a fledgling US event and very little else.

Lucky for us that the rest of the cycling world can't afford to be so selective as this part time outfit.

BBox and Cofidis have similiar size squads and the same arguement you are using regarding young riders etc should be applied to them as well. But as we know by now the LAA makes posters say one thing regarding LA and another regarding other teams. Why cant you just treat them the same as you would other teams is beyond me as almost all cycling teams are selective as to what they ride and what they dont. Calling them part time becuase they are not participating in the Giro is a complete and utter nonsense as other teams miss out the Giro and dont get the same kind of sh ite flung at them and anyway many of you have got your wish you didnt want LA et al last year now you have got your wish and now you dont like it ..............go figure eh !

andyp

How many of those other teams have genuine podium contendors in their ranks?

Christ only knows what the likes of Kloden, Zubeldia and Brajkovic are doing wasting their careers in Team Bruyneel. Don't they have any ambition?

moray_gub

andyp wrote:

How many of those other teams have genuine podium contendors in their ranks?

Christ only knows what the likes of Kloden, Zubeldia and Brajkovic are doing wasting their careers in Team Bruyneel. Don't they have any ambition?

Right so what you are saying now is that if you have a rider with GC podium capability you have to ride the all the Grand Tours ? does that apply to all teams or just RS ?

As for Zubeldia he is just happy having a well paying gig as a domestique he aint no podium contendor, Kloden better days are probably behind him he is another well paid domestique and JB will get his chance maybe at the Vuelta. I dont get your anismosity here towards RS at all there are a loads of examples of riders changing teams and being happy to ride in the service of others it aint a new thing its been going on since Christ left Dumbarton .

andyp

Zubeldia has twice finished 5th in the Tour. For a rider of that level of ability targeting the podium at the Giro or the Vuelta is realistic goal.

Kloden was, and probably still is, a genuine contender for a Tour podium spot. He should be trying to win the Giro or the Tour.

Brajkovic looked like he was going to be the next big thing a few years ago, but he's never confirmed that early promise.

I think it's a waste of talent, why have that ability, make all those sacrifices and then be content towing an ageing American up passes in France every July?

andyp

Moray Gub wrote:

Right so what you are saying now is that if you have a rider with GC podium capability you have to ride the all the Grand Tours ? does that apply to all teams or just RS ?

Check out the terms of a ProTour license. The whole point of getting one is ensuring you get entry to the best races. Why bother if you're not going to send a decent team, especially when you're team is stuffed full of decent stage racers?

iainf72

BMC are riding both the Giro and Cali, aren't they?

And they're only a Pro-Conti outfit

Kléber

Arguably Radiosack could do both races. Armstrong and "local" Leipheimer could do California but there's enough on the roster to do the Giro, especially with "surprise package" Kloeden. But they don't have to.

Yet there's clearly tension between RCS and Armstrong, not surprising since the Giro organiser was rumoured to have paid the Texan $2m to ride the Giro last year, only to find Armstrong conduct a media blackout and spearhead a rider go-slow during the Milan stage of the centenary Giro. RCS felt cheated but frankly, they paid the money when others wouldn't. It takes two to argue.

moray_gub

andyp wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

Right so what you are saying now is that if you have a rider with GC podium capability you have to ride the all the Grand Tours ? does that apply to all teams or just RS ?

Check out the terms of a ProTour license. The whole point of getting one is ensuring you get entry to the best races. Why bother if you're not going to send a decent team, especially when you're team is stuffed full of decent stage racers?

Come on the ProTour license is not worth the paper its written on.

moray_gub

andyp wrote:

Zubeldia has twice finished 5th in the Tour. For a rider of that level of ability targeting the podium at the Giro or the Vuelta is realistic goal.

Kloden was, and probably still is, a genuine contender for a Tour podium spot. He should be trying to win the Giro or the Tour.

Brajkovic looked like he was going to be the next big thing a few years ago, but he's never confirmed that early promise.

I think it's a waste of talent, why have that ability, make all those sacrifices and then be content towing an ageing American up passes in France every July?

Zubeldia has been in decline for a number of years now he aint gonna get any podium spot in any GT, Kloden at a push maybe probably has some GT podium ambitions and maybe they will be to the fore this year in the Tour though his better days are behind him as for JB as i said he will get his chance. Also dont forget that these guys are professional sportsmen and often will go where they can get the most money and best deal for the two years, ambition doesnt stuff your bank balance.

micron

Sorry MG but a few posts ago you were bigging up RS based on all their credible podium contenders and now you tell me 'Kloden better days are probably behind him he is another well paid domestique' - now which is to be? Do RS deserve to be in races because they have a strong squad with real chances or don't they?

BTW, I completely agree with this more realistic assessment of the 'strength' of RS

afx237vi

Moray Gub wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

So sending a letter to race organisers saying you're not going is not the same as saying "we have no intention of going"?

And there's nothing wrong with targetting important races for your sponsor, but most teams do that and ride other races in order to give their younger riders a chance. Why not give Brajkovic a chance at the GC? He's not going to get many other chances this year.

No its not the same as one is definite and one is indicating intention.........

Pedantic, much?

andyp

Moray Gub wrote:

Come on the ProTour license is not worth the paper its written on.

I know. So why bother applying for one if you don't have any intention of riding a complete calendar? Surely it would have made more sense for Bruyneel and Armstrong to apply for a Pro Continental license and then pick and choose the races they wanted to ride, akin to what BMC have done. Armstrong's star appeal would have ensured an invite to most races they wanted to ride and they wouldn't have had to build up such a large roster to comply with UCI regulations.

moray_gub

micron wrote:

Sorry MG but a few posts ago you were bigging up RS based on all their credible podium contenders and now you tell me 'Kloden better days are probably behind him he is another well paid domestique' - now which is to be? Do RS deserve to be in races because they have a strong squad with real chances or don't they?

BTW, I completely agree with this more realistic assessment of the 'strength' of RS

I also said they have a 7 times TDF winner that doesnt mean to say i think LA is gonna win the Tour though does it ? I think even you with your dislike of all things LA (even his facial expressions !) and by extension RS would have difficulty disagreeing with the statement that RS do have some quality riders. Maybe their best days are behind them but they can still perform and most probably will in the months ahead. The hysteria to date about their slow start (along with a few others it has to be said) is bordering on the ridiculous .As for Klodi yes his best days are more than likely behind him but he is probably still a better GT rider than most teams have on their roster.

moray_gub

andyp wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

Come on the ProTour license is not worth the paper its written on.

I know. So why bother applying for one if you don't have any intention of riding a complete calendar? Surely it would have made more sense for Bruyneel and Armstrong to apply for a Pro Continental license and then pick and choose the races they wanted to ride, akin to what BMC have done. Armstrong's star appeal would have ensured an invite to most races they wanted to ride and they wouldn't have had to build up such a large roster to comply with UCI regulations.

I suspect they wanted to try and guarantee that all races were open to them if they wanted to ride but as we have seen with the Pro Tour license before it aint worth jack sh it. I mean what does it even mean these days does anybody actually know or care ?

Kléber

New Pro Tour licences ensure the team a status but don't give you a ride in some of the biggest events on the calendar. There's a pact to ensure the original applicants get a ride but no rule states a Pro Tour team gets to ride the Giro or Tour anymore.

pedro118118

Interesting to hear the argument that RadioShack are deserving of an invite to the big races, because they have riders who have won and podium'd in the TdF and other GTs. Well, I'm sorry, but by that definition, let's get a newly formed Banesto an invite with Big Mig leading?!

The reality is (a sad reality for many Armstrong fans) is that the stage racers at RadioShack are in decline. This is not to say the likes of Kloden, LL, LA and Zubeldia are not good riders (they clearly are), but their best days are well behind them and there's an exiting crop of very talented stage racers coming through, who are already at a higher level.

RadioShack need to diversify or die, as it's all about a 39 year-old Texan and that's not sustainable.