Milan - San Remo *spoiler*

Kléber

Clearly you can't just spin up in a race but it's not exactly the Mur de Huuy.

Boasson Hagen usually struggles in longer races, he's great for five hours but often fades.

afx237vi

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Fascinating tactics? It had sprint finish by the usual suspects written all over it, as soon as everybody left Garzelli to ride tempo up the Poggio.
Just because it's a classic doesn't some how make it exciting.
We had far better last week.
The little GP Samyn, a while back, was far more tactically intriguing.

Agree with this.

SpaceJunk

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Fascinating tactics? It had sprint finish by the usual suspects written all over it, as soon as everybody left Garzelli to ride tempo up the Poggio.
Just because it's a classic doesn't some how make it exciting.
We had far better last week.
The little GP Samyn, a while back, was far more tactically intriguing.

Garzelli was riding more than just tempo.
He had everyone strung out.

Obviously Lampre were paying him to ensure a bunch finish. Wasn't doing that for Paolini who still came in top 10-12.

I found that to be intriguing.

maltiv

Kléber wrote:

Clearly you can't just spin up in a race but it's not exactly the Mur de Huuy.

Boasson Hagen usually struggles in longer races, he's great for five hours but often fades.

He got stomach problems with about 25 km to go. He's occasionally suffered from this problem throughout his career, mostly in long races. It's certainly not easy to ride with intense stomach pain...

Kléber

maltiv wrote:

Kléber wrote:

Clearly you can't just spin up in a race but it's not exactly the Mur de Huuy.

Boasson Hagen usually struggles in longer races, he's great for five hours but often fades.

He got stomach problems with about 25 km to go. He's occasionally suffered from this problem throughout his career, mostly in long races. It's certainly not easy to ride with intense stomach pain...

Exactly, that's why I didn't pick him for PTP. I'm sure he'll get over this with time.

Note there was a headwind up the Poggio, some riders said they couldn't attack and get a gap because of this.

FJS

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Fascinating tactics? It had sprint finish by the usual suspects written all over it, as soon as everybody left Garzelli to ride tempo up the Poggio.
Just because it's a classic doesn't some how make it exciting.
We had far better last week.
The little GP Samyn, a while back, was far more tactically intriguing.

Who says a sprint finish and the build up to it cannot be fascinating? Well, personally I think it can be, and today is a good example. It never was about whether or not there would be a bunch sprint, but there is fascinating viewing in the fight for places and team tactics around that

iainf72

Oh no. Scary news fans

http://www.cyclesportnews.com/aus/index ... &Itemid=60

So that blinkin' advert will be on more.

iainf72

Cav finished higher up than Biggles.

frenchfighter

iainf72 wrote:

Cav finished higher up than Biggles.

6th Sky rider in...he must have been really suffering.

frenchfighter

Ispaphotos

deejay

Kléber wrote:

Note there was a headwind up the Poggio, some riders said they couldn't attack and get a gap because of this.

Now I wonder which part of the poggio that would be.???
Give me a clue.
Was it a headwind as they travelled west along the coast or a tailwind. ????
Give me an answer to that and I can work it out which bit of the poggio was a headwind. !
Maybe the wind was called Garzelli.

deejay

SpaceJunk wrote:

Garzelli was riding more than just tempo.
He had everyone strung out.

Obviously Lampre were paying him to ensure a bunch finish. Wasn't doing that for Paolini who still came in top 10-12.

I found that to be intriguing.

I had a feeling (and Hope) while watching him that it was part of the Italian thinking to prevent another foreigner from winning but the next move then fizzled out and we had groupo compacto again. Very intriguing

Toks

SpaceJunk wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Fascinating tactics? It had sprint finish by the usual suspects written all over it, as soon as everybody left Garzelli to ride tempo up the Poggio.Just because it's a classic doesn't some how make it exciting.
We had far better last week.
The little GP Samyn, a while back, was far more tactically intriguing.

Garzelli was riding more than just empo.

Not after he peeled off he wasn't

frenchfighter

The Poggio video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03pt6e-vEVk

ms_tree

iainf72 wrote:

Oh no. Scary news fans

http://www.cyclesportnews.com/aus/index ... &Itemid=60

So that blinkin' advert will be on more.

Will I? O good - it livened up my afternoon. More,more!! (or maybe less )

andrewgturnbull

SpaceJunk wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Fascinating tactics? It had sprint finish by the usual suspects written all over it, as soon as everybody left Garzelli to ride tempo up the Poggio.
Just because it's a classic doesn't some how make it exciting.
We had far better last week.
The little GP Samyn, a while back, was far more tactically intriguing.

Garzelli was riding more than just tempo.
He had everyone strung out.

Obviously Lampre were paying him to ensure a bunch finish. Wasn't doing that for Paolini who still came in top 10-12.

I found that to be intriguing.

Hi there.

The sprinter's teams did Garzelli a favour last week when they let him fight out the intermediate sprint bonuses with Scarponi's team - maybe this was payback?

Cheers, Andy

SpaceJunk

FJS wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Fascinating tactics? It had sprint finish by the usual suspects written all over it, as soon as everybody left Garzelli to ride tempo up the Poggio.
Just because it's a classic doesn't some how make it exciting.
We had far better last week.
The little GP Samyn, a while back, was far more tactically intriguing.

Who says a sprint finish and the build up to it cannot be fascinating? Well, personally I think it can be, and today is a good example. It never was about whether or not there would be a bunch sprint, but there is fascinating viewing in the fight for places and team tactics around that

+1 to FJS

moray_gub

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Fascinating tactics? It had sprint finish by the usual suspects written all over it, as soon as everybody left Garzelli to ride tempo up the Poggio.
Just because it's a classic doesn't some how make it exciting.
We had far better last week.
The little GP Samyn, a while back, was far more tactically intriguing.

I think you are looking for MSR to be something its not ,these days its rarely an all out attack fest and rarely is it anything more exciting than it was yesterday , ok granted the Poggio coulld have been a bit more exciting but we have seen loads of attacks there before and still a bunch sprint at the end. I quite enjoyed it anyway.

moray_gub

emadden wrote:

In conclusion...

(a) International Eurosport sucks

(b) Milano-San Remo is the new Paris Tours sprint fest despite the course modifications

Be interesting to see how many bunch sprints there has actually been in Paris Tours the last 20 years or so as the last decade hes seen numerous wins from a break.

dave_1

I had to check the 1987 win online, others from 1984 to 1992 I remember. Milan San Remo was a once exciting race,

1984 Moser wins alone
1985 kuiper wins alone
1986 Kelly outsprints group of 3, Beccia and Lemond
1987 Eric Maechler wins alone from 9 strong break
1988 Fignon alone
1989 Fignon alone went on Cipressa , same as year before
1990 Bugno wins from smaller group
1991 Chiapucci alone
1992 Kelly in 2 up sprin from Argnetin-Argentin broke away on Poggio
1993 Fondriest alone
1994 Furlan alone
1995 Jalabert alone

11 years and no bunch sprints

In contrast , the past 15 years have seen 13 bunch sprints.

Two loners
2003 Bettini alone by a few secs
2008 Cancellera alone


Is Milan San Remo really deserving of its status anymore given how easy it is to predict the finish? Fleche or Amstel are better wins perhaps based on racing patter?

finchy

SpaceJunk wrote:

FJS wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Fascinating tactics? It had sprint finish by the usual suspects written all over it, as soon as everybody left Garzelli to ride tempo up the Poggio.
Just because it's a classic doesn't some how make it exciting.
We had far better last week.
The little GP Samyn, a while back, was far more tactically intriguing.

Who says a sprint finish and the build up to it cannot be fascinating? Well, personally I think it can be, and today is a good example. It never was about whether or not there would be a bunch sprint, but there is fascinating viewing in the fight for places and team tactics around that

+1 to FJS

+1 from me too. I found it interesting seeing which sprinters were struggling to get over the hills, even if it might have been livened up by the bunch chasing down a decent breakaway.

Anyway, the climbers and rouleurs all have their classics, so why not the sprinters as well?

greasedscotsman

Dave_1 wrote:

I had to check the 1987 win online, others from 1984 to 1992 I remember. Milan San Remo was a once exciting race,

1984 Moser wins alone
1985 kuiper wins alone
1986 Kelly outsprints group of 3, Beccia and Lemond
1987 Eric Maechler wins alone from 9 strong break
1988 Fignon alone
1989 Fignon alone went on Cipressa , same as year before
1990 Bugno wins from smaller group
1991 Chiapucci alone
1992 Kelly in 2 up sprin from Argnetin-Argentin broke away on Poggio
1993 Fondriest alone
1994 Furlan alone
1995 Jalabert alone

11 years and no bunch sprints

In contrast , the past 15 years have seen 13 bunch sprints.

Two loners
2003 Bettini alone by a few secs
2008 Cancellera alone


Is Milan San Remo really deserving of its status anymore given how easy it is to predict the finish? Fleche or Amstel are better wins perhaps based on racing patter?

OK, Captain Pedantic alert as I seem to remember some of those races a bit differently.

1995 Pretty sure Jalabert didn't win alone, I thought he sat on Fondriest's wheel over the Poggio and then sprinted past him.

2003 I thought Bettini outsprinted Mirko Celestino and Luca Paolini, again, don't think he finished alone.

And in the past 15 years you've forgotten Gabriele Colombo who won from a group of 4 and I don't think either Andre Tchmil or Filippo Pozzato won from bunch sprints either. Tchmil's move was very similar to Cancellara's and Pozzato was in the break that went clear on the Poggio and then jumped clear just as the bunch caught them.

Anyway, as has been previously said, I find bunch sprints very entertaining, I could argue that an attack on the Poggio and a lone win used to be equally as predictable. And I find time trials very boring. Shall we remove them for pro cycling as well?

afx237vi

greasedscotsman wrote:

Anyway, as has been previously said, I find bunch sprints very entertaining, I could argue that an attack on the Poggio and a lone win used to be equally as predictable. And I find time trials very boring. Shall we remove them for pro cycling as well?

Yes please.

greasedscotsman

afx237vi wrote:

greasedscotsman wrote:

Anyway, as has been previously said, I find bunch sprints very entertaining, I could argue that an attack on the Poggio and a lone win used to be equally as predictable. And I find time trials very boring. Shall we remove them for pro cycling as well?

Yes please.

Think LA might be happy about that too

dave_1

greasedscotsman wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

I had to check the 1987 win online, others from 1984 to 1992 I remember. Milan San Remo was a once exciting race,

1984 Moser wins alone
1985 kuiper wins alone
1986 Kelly outsprints group of 3, Beccia and Lemond
1987 Eric Maechler wins alone from 9 strong break
1988 Fignon alone
1989 Fignon alone went on Cipressa , same as year before
1990 Bugno wins from smaller group
1991 Chiapucci alone
1992 Kelly in 2 up sprin from Argnetin-Argentin broke away on Poggio
1993 Fondriest alone
1994 Furlan alone
1995 Jalabert alone

11 years and no bunch sprints

In contrast , the past 15 years have seen 13 bunch sprints.

Two loners
2003 Bettini alone by a few secs
2008 Cancellera alone


Is Milan San Remo really deserving of its status anymore given how easy it is to predict the finish? Fleche or Amstel are better wins perhaps based on racing patter?

OK, Captain Pedantic alert as I seem to remember some of those races a bit differently.

1995 Pretty sure Jalabert didn't win alone, I thought he sat on Fondriest's wheel over the Poggio and then sprinted past him.

2003 I thought Bettini outsprinted Mirko Celestino and Luca Paolini, again, don't think he finished alone.

And in the past 15 years you've forgotten Gabriele Colombo who won from a group of 4 and I don't think either Andre Tchmil or Filippo Pozzato won from bunch sprints either. Tchmil's move was very similar to Cancellara's and Pozzato was in the break that went clear on the Poggio and then jumped clear


Anyway, as has been previously said, I find bunch sprints very entertaining, I could argue that an attack on the Poggio and a lone win used to be equally as predictable. And I find time trials very boring. Shall we remove them for pro cycling as well?

Jalabert won from Fondriest in 2 up sprint with bunch at 17 seconds, not a bunch finish, clearly a break. i am guessing they went on the Poggio with that sort of gap or far enough out.

I didn't follow the late 1990s , 2000s as closely as the 80s. Tchimil surprised the sprinters in the last 1km in 1999. I'll move the goal posts slightly and say attacks from the poggio or previous climbs which stuck as last 1km attacks are really sprints of a sort.

So, accepting your revisions, 1996-2010 show 12 years of bunch finishes, compared to 11 years of lone wins and the odd 2 or 3 up sprint 1984-1995 where breaks had gone on poggio or before.

Milan San Remo is still exciting of course, but surely a return to the 80s era would be more exiciting

afx237vi

greasedscotsman wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

greasedscotsman wrote:

Anyway, as has been previously said, I find bunch sprints very entertaining, I could argue that an attack on the Poggio and a lone win used to be equally as predictable. And I find time trials very boring. Shall we remove them for pro cycling as well?

Yes please.

Think LA might be happy about that too

In that case, more time trials please! They're so exciting, I just love watching them, especially in the Vuelta.

greasedscotsman

Dave_1 wrote:

Milan San Remo is still exciting of course, but surely a return to the 80s era would be more exiciting

So what would you suggest? Isn't the finish moving closer to the Poggio next year? That may help the attackers a bit. But there's also an interesting quote from Stephen Roche in this months Cycle Sport. Talking about the finish of Liege he says that in 1987 they finished in the city centre, so no climb up to Ans, he feels that this made for a for attacking race as he couldn't just wait until the finish, but had to go onto the attack.

Or maybe it's just as Sean Kelly said in the commentary yesterday, the sprinters are better prepared, their teams more organised, maybe there are just going to be more bunch sprints, not just in MSR, but other races.

greasedscotsman

afx237vi wrote:

In that case, more time trials please! They're so exciting, I just love watching them, especially in the Vuelta.

Oh gez, make you mind up

frenchfighter

Interesting comments. I find it funny how sprinters like Bennati and Petacchi can hang with the group on the Poggio. I guess those groups have no out and out hardcore climbers yet you would think a Gilbert or Rogers etc could put some distance in. I guess that after 290km, it is very respectable to be in the lead group and maybe any 'climbers' cannot hang with the previous pace.

The way Pozzato was on Gilbert's wheel with such apparent ease, I thought he had a great chance. Anyone know why he hardly ever gets out of the saddle?

redddraggon

frenchfighter wrote:

Interesting comments. I find it funny how sprinters like Bennati and Petacchi can hang with the group on the Poggio. I guess those groups have no out and out hardcore climbers yet you would think a Gilbert or Rogers etc could put some distance in. I guess that after 290km, it is very respectable to be in the lead group and maybe any 'climbers' cannot hang with the previous pace.

The way Pozzato was on Gilbert's wheel with such apparent ease, I thought he had a great chance. Anyone know why he hardly ever gets out of the saddle?

At an average of only around 4% and only a few Ks long the last couple of climbs probably aren't hard enough for the specialist climbers.