Is Contador a great guy??

jerry3571

Hi all,
This may have been bashed about before...BUT...
Just reading Procycling Magazine and it seems that a very large amount of ex Astana riders have chosen to go to Radioshack. Why??

Is Contador, who seems in inteviews as a good, fair chap, really a bad man??

Did Radioshack offer their new Team the 100% clean record with Bruyneel being able to get through dope testing without hitches?

Did Radioshack pay more??

Lance is a hard, tough man to be dealing with; is he really a popular, great guy close up; even an inspiration??

I am still perplexed at how a Team can move en masse without their exisiting Team Leader. If that happened to me like it has happened to Contador then I would be feeling pretty cr@p and a bit unpopular at the moment.

How is this possible??

Any ideas??
-Jerry

dennisn

jerry3571 wrote:

I am still perplexed at how a Team can move en masse without their exisiting Team Leader.
How is this possible??

Any ideas??
-Jerry

I would think that 7 TDF wins and a 3rd place would qualify LA to be a team leader.

iainf72

jerry3571 wrote:

Hi all,
This may have been bashed about before...BUT...
Just reading Procycling Magazine and it seems that a very large amount of ex Astana riders have chosen to go to Radioshack. Why??

Very simple - Contador didn't have anything concrete to offer them. He wasn't sure where he'd be riding etc. Radioshack offered some some stability and knowing where your cash was going to come from.

I believe Contador is generally well liked in the peloton.

donrhummy

I don't think it has ANYTHING to do with Contador and EVERYTHING to do with Astana. When a team doesn't pay you your salary for MONTHS until the UCI threatens to kick them out of the Tour de France and one of your star riders (Lance) and your manager have a new sponsor lined up...it's time to leave that team.

RichN95.

9 times out of 10, the reason for a pro sportsman changing teams is money.

afx237vi

I think donrhummy nails it. Nothing to do with Contador, everything to do with Astana.

secretsqirrel

jerry3571 wrote:

I'm still perplexed at how a Team can move en masse without their exisiting Team Leader. If that happened to me like it has happened to Contador then I would be feeling pretty cr@p and a bit unpopular at the moment.

There was no reason for AC to feel unpopular. Plenty of teams were after him and were prepared to pay a fortune for the privilege.

Astana have pulled out all the stops to build a pretty good team around him, under very difficult circumstances.

There is nothing to indicate that Contador has 'issues'.

jerry3571

I think Contador cut a lonely figure at the Tour and I spotted, even at the Paris stage, that he mainly rode alone. In the Armstrong days, Big Tex would have the whole Team surround him in case another careless rider would take him off his bike. Seems as though the old Astana didn't much care about Contador winningmthe Tour.
I think a lot of the ex Astana riders were quality riders and could've got contracts with other Teams even at a late date. I think rider's security of a contract with Bruyneel takes us so far but they seemed to have gone wholesale over to Radioshack rather than a multiple of other Teams. Seems as though Armstrong was a popular choice for most riders at Astana. In Armstrong's back pocket is Kloden, Popo, Levi and maybe Rubiera; they seem to like being there.
Does Contador have some personal bad habits or is Lance hard on the outside with a soft inside??

-Jerry

dougzz

Like several others have said, money and stability. In addition I'd say that JB built the team so it was his rather than Bertie's. Since JB clearly chose Tex, and AC had the audacity to win rather than riding as co-leader or whatever crap LA and JB were spouting, the team was split, they followed JB and LA, no surprise there really.

Hey Denis, you keep flying the flag for Lance. 7 wins indeed, the last of which was 5 years ago, do you think Big Mig or maybe The Cannibal should come back as team leaders? He wasn't the team leader AC was, AC won, is better than Lance, and was the 'real' defending champion, I like Sastre but the idea that AC wouldn't have destroyed him in 08 if allowed to ride is laughable. JB dumped on AC in the most pathetic and unethical way imaginable. He allowed himself to be dominated as usual by a control freak the likes of which cycling will probably never see again. The team didn't desert AC they deserted a situation of unreliable paymasters that had lost control of the team to JB and LA manipulation. The day the pair of them pretended AC had cost Kloden a podium place was one of the most shameful bits of double standard attitude you'll ever see.

To quote a famous scouser "Team Leader my arse"

moray_gub

dougzz wrote:

Like several others have said, money and stability. In addition I'd say that JB built the team so it was his rather than Bertie's. Since JB clearly chose Tex, and AC had the audacity to win rather than riding as co-leader or whatever crap LA and JB were spouting, the team was split, they followed JB and LA, no surprise there really.

Hey Denis, you keep flying the flag for Lance. 7 wins indeed, the last of which was 5 years ago, do you think Big Mig or maybe The Cannibal should come back as team leaders? He wasn't the team leader AC was, AC won, is better than Lance, and was the 'real' defending champion, I like Sastre but the idea that AC wouldn't have destroyed him in 08 if allowed to ride is laughable.

You can spout off all you want the history books say Sastre was TDF winner in 08 end of. Sure AC may have beaten him or he may have crashed on stage 1 and lost out who knows all we do know is Sastre was the defending champ ito say AC was is ludicrous really. As for LA and JB pretending that Bertie had cost AK a podium place, lets put it this way i really dont think they needed to pretend.

jerry3571

Radioshack's tactics for the next tdf will be that there will be no single Leader and they will ride as a Team and see which rider comes out best and then support that rider. Hmmm... I've heard that one before :? . The only riders capable of doing anything are under Lance's thumb so no problems this year hopefully otherwise it's another handbag fight on Twitter.
All good advertising for Twitter I guess.

-Jerry

blackpanther

Moray Gub wrote:

dougzz wrote:

Like several others have said, money and stability. In addition I'd say that JB built the team so it was his rather than Bertie's. Since JB clearly chose Tex, and AC had the audacity to win rather than riding as co-leader or whatever crap LA and JB were spouting, the team was split, they followed JB and LA, no surprise there really.

Hey Denis, you keep flying the flag for Lance. 7 wins indeed, the last of which was 5 years ago, do you think Big Mig or maybe The Cannibal should come back as team leaders? He wasn't the team leader AC was, AC won, is better than Lance, and was the 'real' defending champion, I like Sastre but the idea that AC wouldn't have destroyed him in 08 if allowed to ride is laughable.

You can spout off all you want the history books say Sastre was TDF winner in 08 end of. Sure AC may have beaten him or he may have crashed on stage 1 and lost out who knows all we do know is Sastre was the defending champ ito say AC was is ludicrous really. As for LA and JB pretending that Bertie had cost AK a podium place, lets put it this way i really dont think they needed to pretend.

But your point about Sastre at the begining of your paragraph contradicts your point about AK at the end of the same paragraph. Which is your view? or are there double standards within the space of 3 lines?

frenchfighter

He won the journalists award for best rider to photograph....we all know who won the 'prize' for the worst.

Like people have said, the riders cannot wait until end of Dec or whenever Astana10 was stable to know where they will be riding.

Contador is well liked and respected within the peloton from what I can gather.

calvjones

Moray Gub wrote:

dougzz wrote:

Like several others have said, money and stability. In addition I'd say that JB built the team so it was his rather than Bertie's. Since JB clearly chose Tex, and AC had the audacity to win rather than riding as co-leader or whatever crap LA and JB were spouting, the team was split, they followed JB and LA, no surprise there really.

Hey Denis, you keep flying the flag for Lance. 7 wins indeed, the last of which was 5 years ago, do you think Big Mig or maybe The Cannibal should come back as team leaders? He wasn't the team leader AC was, AC won, is better than Lance, and was the 'real' defending champion, I like Sastre but the idea that AC wouldn't have destroyed him in 08 if allowed to ride is laughable.

You can spout off all you want the history books say Sastre was TDF winner in 08 end of. Sure AC may have beaten him or he may have crashed on stage 1 and lost out who knows all we do know is Sastre was the defending champ ito say AC was is ludicrous really. As for LA and JB pretending that Bertie had cost AK a podium place, lets put it this way i really dont think they needed to pretend.

You're right, AK would have taken the last podium place without AC's antics.

Luckily another member of Astana took it, so no harm done.

DaveyL

frenchfighter wrote:

He won the journalists award for best rider to photograph....

Has he got that commemorated on his saddle as well?

greeny12

FWIW I think the mass exodus has more to do with Bruyneel than anything. Those are Bruyneel's boys, and many of 'em will still be riding when Lance hangs up his cleats again.

Whatever you think of him, Bruyneel does seem to have that certain something, like a Mourinho, to engender loyalty.

Plus for Horner and Levi there's the obvious draw of riding for an American team.

Their bull about Klodi's podium was laughable though, whatever MG thinks....

frenchfighter

DaveyL wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

He won the journalists award for best rider to photograph....

Has he got that commemorated on his saddle as well?

Ha ha. Ha. Hoh. He. No.

SpaceJunk

blackpanther wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

dougzz wrote:

Like several others have said, money and stability. In addition I'd say that JB built the team so it was his rather than Bertie's. Since JB clearly chose Tex, and AC had the audacity to win rather than riding as co-leader or whatever crap LA and JB were spouting, the team was split, they followed JB and LA, no surprise there really.

Hey Denis, you keep flying the flag for Lance. 7 wins indeed, the last of which was 5 years ago, do you think Big Mig or maybe The Cannibal should come back as team leaders? He wasn't the team leader AC was, AC won, is better than Lance, and was the 'real' defending champion, I like Sastre but the idea that AC wouldn't have destroyed him in 08 if allowed to ride is laughable.

You can spout off all you want the history books say Sastre was TDF winner in 08 end of. Sure AC may have beaten him or he may have crashed on stage 1 and lost out who knows all we do know is Sastre was the defending champ ito say AC was is ludicrous really. As for LA and JB pretending that Bertie had cost AK a podium place, lets put it this way i really dont think they needed to pretend.

But your point about Sastre at the begining of your paragraph contradicts your point about AK at the end of the same paragraph. Which is your view? or are there double standards within the space of 3 lines?

Well put BlackPanther. At the end of the day, I can't see how BOTH AK and LA would've leap frogged Andy Schleck, giving JB his coveted 1-2-3.

moray_gub

greeny12 wrote:

FWIW I think the mass exodus has more to do with Bruyneel than anything. Those are Bruyneel's boys, and many of 'em will still be riding when Lance hangs up his cleats again.

Whatever you think of him, Bruyneel does seem to have that certain something, like a Mourinho, to engender loyalty.

Plus for Horner and Levi there's the obvious draw of riding for an American team.

Their bull about Klodi's podium was laughable though, whatever MG thinks....

and others i hasten to add.

SpaceJunk

Moray Gub wrote:

greeny12 wrote:

FWIW I think the mass exodus has more to do with Bruyneel than anything. Those are Bruyneel's boys, and many of 'em will still be riding when Lance hangs up his cleats again.

Whatever you think of him, Bruyneel does seem to have that certain something, like a Mourinho, to engender loyalty.

Plus for Horner and Levi there's the obvious draw of riding for an American team.

Their bull about Klodi's podium was laughable though, whatever MG thinks....

and others i hasten to add.

So MG, just for the record. Do you believe Astana would've finished 1-2-3 if not for AC's antics? Or do you think AK just missed out on getting LA's third spot?

moray_gub

blackpanther wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

dougzz wrote:

Like several others have said, money and stability. In addition I'd say that JB built the team so it was his rather than Bertie's. Since JB clearly chose Tex, and AC had the audacity to win rather than riding as co-leader or whatever crap LA and JB were spouting, the team was split, they followed JB and LA, no surprise there really.

Hey Denis, you keep flying the flag for Lance. 7 wins indeed, the last of which was 5 years ago, do you think Big Mig or maybe The Cannibal should come back as team leaders? He wasn't the team leader AC was, AC won, is better than Lance, and was the 'real' defending champion, I like Sastre but the idea that AC wouldn't have destroyed him in 08 if allowed to ride is laughable.

You can spout off all you want the history books say Sastre was TDF winner in 08 end of. Sure AC may have beaten him or he may have crashed on stage 1 and lost out who knows all we do know is Sastre was the defending champ ito say AC was is ludicrous really. As for LA and JB pretending that Bertie had cost AK a podium place, lets put it this way i really dont think they needed to pretend.

But your point about Sastre at the begining of your paragraph contradicts your point about AK at the end of the same paragraph. Which is your view? or are there double standards within the space of 3 lines?

Not at all one is fact and another is a pretty solid opinion. I am not stating as a fact that AK would have got third but i think AC's antics as Calv put it cost him. The difference in my post to Dougzz was he was stating that AC was the 2008 defending champion when clearly he wasnt.

moray_gub

SpaceJunk wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

greeny12 wrote:

FWIW I think the mass exodus has more to do with Bruyneel than anything. Those are Bruyneel's boys, and many of 'em will still be riding when Lance hangs up his cleats again.

Whatever you think of him, Bruyneel does seem to have that certain something, like a Mourinho, to engender loyalty.

Plus for Horner and Levi there's the obvious draw of riding for an American team.

Their bull about Klodi's podium was laughable though, whatever MG thinks....

and others i hasten to add.

So MG, just for the record. Do you believe Astana would've finished 1-2-3 if not for AC's antics? Or do you think AK just missed out on getting LA's third spot?

I think the antics of AC cost AK third i think AK would have finished above LA but behind AC and AS. Ok ...........

SpaceJunk

Moray Gub wrote:

SpaceJunk wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

greeny12 wrote:

FWIW I think the mass exodus has more to do with Bruyneel than anything. Those are Bruyneel's boys, and many of 'em will still be riding when Lance hangs up his cleats again.

Whatever you think of him, Bruyneel does seem to have that certain something, like a Mourinho, to engender loyalty.

Plus for Horner and Levi there's the obvious draw of riding for an American team.

Their bull about Klodi's podium was laughable though, whatever MG thinks....

and others i hasten to add.

So MG, just for the record. Do you believe Astana would've finished 1-2-3 if not for AC's antics? Or do you think AK just missed out on getting LA's third spot?

I think the antics of AC cost AK third i think AK would have finished above LA but behind AC and AS. Ok ...........

Cool. Thanks for clarifying that MG.

Mighty humble of LA then to suggest that if not for AC, he would've finished off the podium.

dougzz

Moray.
You're right the defending champ was Sastre, but I think you know I was implying that since AC was unable to ride, but won the Giro and Vuelta there was a good chance he'd have won the Tour if he'd have been able to ride. I certainly wasn't stating that they should strip Sastre and put AC's name in the book. Buy the right book printed at the right time and it will tell you that Flandis is the 2006 Winner. My point was that Dennis was wrong Lance was not the leader, AC was.

As for Kloden there we'll all only have opinions, no one can really know for sure. But my comment was based as much on the whole saga being a post race generated dig at AC as the pair of them actually believing it themselves. But can you point me to all the examples where JB and LA when at Postal/Discovery rode the race to get one of the other 8 on the podium? I suppose when you've got overjuiced domestiques like Flandis and Heras that's not really possible................

dougzz

Moray Gub wrote:

I think the antics of AC cost AK third i think AK would have finished above LA but behind AC and AS. Ok ...........

I think it's pretty rich to describe AC's actions as antics. The guy was the obvious favourite to win, had won the last 3 GTs he'd ridden, and was in the mind of everyone outside of the LA/JB gang the leader of the team. JB/LA had ensured he was totally isolated within the team, despite his status. I think given all of that his behaviour and actions were amazingly controlled and calm. Antics is a complete armchair Monday morning accusation.

calvjones

dougzz wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

I think the antics of AC cost AK third i think AK would have finished above LA but behind AC and AS. Ok ...........

I think it's pretty rich to describe AC's actions as antics. The guy was the obvious favourite to win, had won the last 3 GTs he'd ridden, and was in the mind of everyone outside of the LA/JB gang the leader of the team. JB/LA had ensured he was totally isolated within the team, despite his status. I think given all of that his behaviour and actions were amazingly controlled and calm. Antics is a complete armchair Monday morning accusation.

As the originator of the 'antics' remark... We really need to get an irony smiley on this forum.

rick_chasey

Are people honestly taking Condator down a peg or two because he was in the Tour to win the yellow jersey as emphatically as possible, and wasn't fussed where his teammates finished?

Jesus.

What kind of rider does that eh?

Whatever next, asking riders on their team to waste energy getting them a drink? Demanding a teammates tyre to replace their punctured one?!!

He's taking liberties I tell you!

dougzz

calvjones wrote:

dougzz wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

I think the antics of AC cost AK third i think AK would have finished above LA but behind AC and AS. Ok ...........

I think it's pretty rich to describe AC's actions as antics. The guy was the obvious favourite to win, had won the last 3 GTs he'd ridden, and was in the mind of everyone outside of the LA/JB gang the leader of the team. JB/LA had ensured he was totally isolated within the team, despite his status. I think given all of that his behaviour and actions were amazingly controlled and calm. Antics is a complete armchair Monday morning accusation.

As the originator of the 'antics' remark... We really need to get an irony smiley on this forum.

Well feel free to reply to the points rather than just being smart about the quote being somewhat misdirected at Moray rather than yourself, especially since judging by Moray's posts here he's more than able to defend himself. Given the situation AC was in do you think it's fair to describe his attack as antics?

My view on the original point is that his behaviour in an awful situation was pretty good, although I don't speak Spanish so I only get to read and hear what other's have translated which is always less balanced than getting it straight from the horses mouth. A great guy I don't know, but he seems OK.

calvjones

I wasn't being 'smart', merely pointing out that my original use of the word 'antics' was used with a heavy dose of irony, given that the little Pistolero was perfectly justified in his actions regarding AK.

Dgh

AC a great guy? I don't know. He's a great rider, that's for sure. And he seems like a genuinely pleasant guy (I do speak Spanish). But there are things that make one wonder.

His reaction to Armstrong coming back showed some lack of grace. OK, LA was muscling in on his show, but he could've had an attitude of ," so, whatever, he'll be a good teammate." Although there were obviously problems with Astana, it's hard to believe that he couldn't have given the necessary assurances to keep valued teammates with him. Shit, if Astana weren't paying on time, he didn't have to stay there.

Staying with Astana, when I understand Garmin were keen, also casts some doubt on his judgment. The other teams with which he's been linked haven't always been those with the strongest anti-doping stance. He should understand that, in modern cycling, if he's gonna maximise his earnings he not only needs to be clean, but to be seen to be aggressively anti-doping. He could show that by his choice of team.

LA can give conflictign signals. Sometimes he seems like a great guy, others like an asshole. But then that's probably true of most of us, isn't it?

As for riders going with Radioshack, LA seems very good at inspiring loyalty from teammates. He makes sure that they're well paid, and seems good at creating a happy ambience (Astana last year notwithstanding).

jerry3571

The only thing I can say about AC is that he seems a bit dozey (sorry FF).
He forgot to drink at Paris Nice and blew, missed the break in the cross winds at the Tour and also did the Kloden thing. I think the Kloden thing was cock up really. If AC carried on his attack and try to consolidate his Yellow Jersey then fair enough but he managed to blow the legs off his Team mate who says "he would've offered his wheels if AC had punctured on the descent". I think Kloden was cooked and may have easily blown anyway but I think Contador wanted to attack and then when he did, got an earfull from the Team Car and then sat up; making the attack worthless and Kloden in no mans land.
As far as getting Podium places for other Team mates was a crazy idea. Everyone should be 100% behind the Yellow Jersey holder and commit themselves to their Leader being able to attain as much time over the opposition. If AC had cashed, punctured, bonked or got held up then he would need as much time as possible to hold on to the Jersey as Cadel Evans shows us below-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl_eqDVRnJc

-Jerry