Forum home Road cycling forum Pro race

Pro-cycling and cross-country skiing: 'blood' brothers.

BikingBernieBikingBernie Posts: 2,163
edited January 2015 in Pro race
Rampant doping hurts integrity of cross-country skiing, U.S. coach says

VANCOUVER — Justin Wadsworth, a coach on the U.S. cross-country ski team, a three-time Olympian and a 14-year veteran of the World Cup circuit, says the integrity of his sport continues to be compromised by dopers — and that means the integrity of the competition at the 2010 Olympic Winter Games in Vancouver will be compromised.

For someone who’s devoted his life to cross-country skiing that’s disturbing enough. But, for Wadsworth and others connected to the sport, what’s worse is culture of silence and acceptance that has grown around the dopers.

“Why doesn’t anyone say anything?” Wadsworth wrote in an e-mail. “They don’t want to rock the boat. They don’t want to jeopardize their position on the team or in the federation. Why? Because this means money. From the head of FIS (the International Ski Federation) right on down to the lonely athlete making a bit of prize money.

“All I can tell you is that teams are still doping. They might not be getting caught, but they’re still doing it. One hundred per cent.”


http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/2010 ... story.html
«1

Posts

  • andylavandylav Posts: 308
    Never a yawning emoticon when you want one....
  • KléberKléber Posts: 6,842
    It's a serious issue, both sports can be easily manipulated by blood doping and revelations of massive abuse in recent years have ruined the images of both sports amongst many fans and media alike. All the more reason for the FIS to up its monitoring.
  • Monty DogMonty Dog Posts: 20,614
    I follow both XC skiing and biathlon in winter and it often strikes me the variability of performances during the season from competitors from certain countries. The Russians and Austrians in particular of at times turning-in exceptional performances and yet the following week fall-apart. Another factor is the HCT level for XC/Biathlon is 52% supposedly to compensate for altitude - which just provides a bigger 'boost' for those more responsive to such methods.

    That all said, Petter Northug's performance in the XC team sprint final was still remarkable.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • dulldavedulldave Posts: 949
    Monty Dog wrote:
    Another factor is the HCT level for XC/Biathlon is 52% supposedly to compensate for altitude -

    That's a bit bizarre. Cyclists are hardly skulking around at sea level now are they?
    Scottish and British...and a bit French
  • dealdeal Posts: 857
    what about the rest of the family - distance running, triathlon, swimming etc. lets not forget the latest poster-boy for one of these sports is a walking talking advert for HGH, as was his predecessor (who retired in controversial circumstances)

    drug use is endemic to most sports, the only difference is the other sports do a better job at keeping it hidden

    ps. im a biathlon fan too, fantastic sport to watch
  • Monty DogMonty Dog Posts: 20,614
    I think the guidelines were developed when the preferred philosophy was 'sleep high and train low' and the belief that things like altitude tents could mask, sorry enhance your blood count and therefore the skiers demanded that the levels needed to reflect their lives at altitude. All this does is demonstrate that a 40% HCT athlete is going to benefit more from boosting to 52% than someone with 46% HCT!
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • Don't know, ask Alex Zullle.
  • pollys_bottpollys_bott Posts: 1,008
    Monty Dog wrote:
    I follow both XC skiing and biathlon in winter and it often strikes me the variability of performances during the season from competitors from certain countries. The Russians and Austrians in particular of at times turning-in exceptional performances and yet the following week fall-apart. Another factor is the HCT level for XC/Biathlon is 52% supposedly to compensate for altitude - which just provides a bigger 'boost' for those more responsive to such methods.

    That all said, Petter Northug's performance in the XC team sprint final was still remarkable.

    Wonder how the French and German women's biathlon relay teams feel right now knowing that the Russian team that beat them contains an athlete banned for two years for blood-doping offences (Medvetseva)?
  • DaveyLDaveyL Posts: 5,167
    Rampant doping hurts integrity of cross-country skiing, U.S. coach says

    VANCOUVER — Justin Wadsworth, a coach on the U.S. cross-country ski team, a three-time Olympian and a 14-year veteran of the World Cup circuit, says the integrity of his sport continues to be compromised by dopers — and that means the integrity of the competition at the 2010 Olympic Winter Games in Vancouver will be compromised.

    For someone who’s devoted his life to cross-country skiing that’s disturbing enough. But, for Wadsworth and others connected to the sport, what’s worse is culture of silence and acceptance that has grown around the dopers.

    “Why doesn’t anyone say anything?” Wadsworth wrote in an e-mail. “They don’t want to rock the boat. They don’t want to jeopardize their position on the team or in the federation. Why? Because this means money. From the head of FIS (the International Ski Federation) right on down to the lonely athlete making a bit of prize money.

    “All I can tell you is that teams are still doping. They might not be getting caught, but they’re still doing it. One hundred per cent.”


    http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/2010 ... story.html

    I've read this post four times now. And once backwards. And I still can't find the word "Armstrong". How odd.
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • DghDgh Posts: 180
    Am new to following biathlon and cross-country, but it would seem that performance variation in biathlon might be more expected, because of the shooting element.

    A good step would be to monitor, year-round, the blood of world cup competitors. If they show haemotologically suspect values, require them to submit to year-round blood monitoring by independent haemotologists, failing which, ban 'em.

    Another good step would be, where a country causes visa problems for anti-doping officials, ban its athletes. And ban teams who go there to train.

    In cycling, I think it's time for an amnesty - confess and get mercy, but after the amnesty savage sanctions and forfeit career wins.
  • stagehopperstagehopper Posts: 1,593
    Kléber wrote:
    It's a serious issue, both sports can be easily manipulated by blood doping and revelations of massive abuse in recent years have ruined the images of both sports amongst many fans and media alike. All the more reason for the FIS to up its monitoring.

    Didn't the blood passport in cycling effectively arise out of the FIS's work on blood doping? Pretty sure it was Damsgaard who was brought in by the FIS to start work on their huge problem and it was he who pointed out that even though some suspected skiers (via performances/tip-offs) were showing no measurable signs of EPO + derivatives, but it was clearly their blood had been manipulated by looking at the various parameters.
  • BronzieBronzie Posts: 4,927
    Wonder how the French and German women's biathlon relay teams feel right now knowing that the Russian team that beat them contains an athlete banned for two years for blood-doping offences (Medvetseva)?
    The French would have walked the Gold if they hadn't missed 10 targets (incl 2 penalty loops) - Dorin's meltdown on the 6th shoot cost them dear.

    But Medvetseva has done her time and come back - no different to any of the many, many cyclists that have "done their time"
  • Monty DogMonty Dog Posts: 20,614
    I thought that serving a ban was a pre-condition of Olympic qualification for the Russian team?

    Put somebody with the heart and lungs of Petter Northug on a bike? The way he closed down the gap on the final leg of the relay was pretty impressive.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • jerry3571jerry3571 Posts: 1,532
    I got in to cycling at the start of the age of EPO and the likes of Lemond, Hampsten and a few others suddenly faded. At that time the first cross country skiers had expired from using EPO which I personally think may have paved the way to a new generation of pro riders. I have read in Robert Millar's book saying about guys with legs like tree trunks leaving him for dead on the climbs, also Lucho Herrera spoke in the same manner. This old guard of riders had probably made thier money and didn't want to take a life and death chance to earn a few more bucks and so faded as Lemond showed in the 1991 Tour de France. I always thought that Lemond retired from cycling, not from blood poisoning or whatever it turned out to be, but that he didn't like EPO.
    Strange how cycling's deaths from EPO began a purge on doping whereas the coverage of doping in skiing seems to be hidden or forgotten about. I could be wrong here ok but I don't see many Skiing hotels being raided for drugs unlike the Pro cyclists.
    -Jerry
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving”- Albert Einstein

    "You can't ride the Tour de France on mineral water."
    -Jacques Anquetil
  • eheh Posts: 4,854
    I don't see many Skiing hotels being raided for drugs unlike the Pro cyclists.

    Well the Italian police did a job at the Turin winter olympics, think the austrian squad were one caught out.
  • KléberKléber Posts: 6,842
    Monty Dog wrote:
    Put somebody with the heart and lungs of Petter Northug on a bike? The way he closed down the gap on the final leg of the relay was pretty impressive.
    The performances are impressive but participation levels in the sport are comparatively low. So whilst we see some strong performances, and we know the sport demands the highest levels of fitness, it doesn't scour the world for the best human specimens in the same way. (in the same way cycling could include more African competitors).

    For an example, apparently in France only 300 people have a competitive biathlon licence, with cycling the number is over 100,000 with the main federation alone. So the talent pool to draw on is very small.

    It could be the other way that if you put the likes of Boonen, Wiggins or Contador on skiis, they could do very well. I know Boasson Hagen used X-C skis to keep fit over the winter, Greg LeMond did this too and I think Saur-Sojasun's Jerome Coppel even dabbles with a race or two in winter.

    One other thing of note was the Canadian skater Clara Hughes, she won bronze last night after carrying the Canadian flag into the opening ceremony. If the name rings a bell, it's because she's also a very accomplished cyclist, winning bronze in Atlanta for the road race and the TT.
    CHUghesAccW472H311.jpg
  • Monty DogMonty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Norwegian XC skier Hofstad reputedly has a VO2 max of 96 - Lemond was 92.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • pollys_bottpollys_bott Posts: 1,008
    Bronzie wrote:
    Wonder how the French and German women's biathlon relay teams feel right now knowing that the Russian team that beat them contains an athlete banned for two years for blood-doping offences (Medvetseva)?
    The French would have walked the Gold if they hadn't missed 10 targets (incl 2 penalty loops) - Dorin's meltdown on the 6th shoot cost them dear.

    But Medvetseva has done her time and come back - no different to any of the many, many cyclists that have "done their time"

    Absolutely true, but it's not really the point - and yes, Medvetseva has done the time for her crime; but who knows if her doping has given / will give her a longer term benefit that will outweigh the two years spent not competing? I wonder if Britain's 400m wonder-girl considers a one-year ban for missing three dope tests a fair swop for World and Olympic titles? :lol:
  • 92, 96? pfah. apparently a husky, or sled dog, who can run for hours on end (yes they're following the censored in heat - the inuit aren't stupid) are up in the 420 range apparently

    Wish i could remember where i read that.
    When a cyclist has a disagreement with a car; it's not who's right, it's who's left.
  • stagehopperstagehopper Posts: 1,593
    I wonder if Britain's 400m wonder-girl considers a one-year ban for missing three dope tests a fair swop for World and Olympic titles? :lol:

    The wonder girl has never posted remarkable times or shown major surprising improvements - her achievements are more due to the inexplicable failure of others on the day. Her victories have been more a case of mental fortitude than outstanding physical achievement.

    Pretty much accepted within the sport even by the most stringest of anti-drug campaigners that she was guilty of negligence rather than doping - the procedures for OOC testing were changed in the wake of her sanction, first in the UK then worldwide, to make the system more responsive to micro-changes in schedule. The system first put in place was too inflexible and resulted in a ridiculous level of missed tests in that first year.
  • 92, 96? pfah. apparently a husky, or sled dog, who can run for hours on end (yes they're following the ***** in heat - the inuit aren't stupid) are up in the 420 range apparently

    Wish i could remember where i read that.

    just found this

    -- In another physiological parameter, the maximal oxygen uptake, or VO2 max, the huskies also are champs. The human who won the 1996 Olympic marathon in Atlanta had VO2 max of about 75 mils of oxygen per kilogram of body weight. Dogs running in the Cornell sled dog team have VO2 maxes as high as 240 -- three times as high as the very best human athletes in the world.
  • pollys_bottpollys_bott Posts: 1,008
    I wonder if Britain's 400m wonder-girl considers a one-year ban for missing three dope tests a fair swop for World and Olympic titles? :lol:

    The wonder girl has never posted remarkable times or shown major surprising improvements - her achievements are more due to the inexplicable failure of others on the day. Her victories have been more a case of mental fortitude than outstanding physical achievement.

    Pretty much accepted within the sport even by the most stringest of anti-drug campaigners that she was guilty of negligence rather than doping - the procedures for OOC testing were changed in the wake of her sanction, first in the UK then worldwide, to make the system more responsive to micro-changes in schedule. The system first put in place was too inflexible and resulted in a ridiculous level of missed tests in that first year.

    I know. The comparison was meant in the context of the downside of missing competition vs later rewards, not the reason for the athlete missing competition (although I can see how other conclusions could be drawn)
  • Thank you, thank you. that's it. I transposed the 4 and the 2 but that's impressive.

    Can you imagine hooking up a bloody huskie to a face mask and running a Conconi test?

    Depends how good the censored smelled to him :-)

    I assume a Conconi test and ramp test are the same or similar thing...
    When a cyclist has a disagreement with a car; it's not who's right, it's who's left.
  • Sorry, but the website keeps censoring when I write bee-atch - which is a perfectly fine term for a femal dog. Much better than 'ho or mi Julie. :-D

    And frankly that's what the other dogs are chasing in a sled team. No apoloiges cuz that's nature folks. Sex might not make the world go round but it gets a dog team moving.
    When a cyclist has a disagreement with a car; it's not who's right, it's who's left.
  • 92, 96? pfah. apparently a husky, or sled dog, who can run for hours on end (yes they're following the ***** in heat - the inuit aren't stupid) are up in the 420 range apparently

    Wish i could remember where i read that.

    The latest issue of Outside magazine has an article on sled dog endurance
    http://outside.away.com/outside/bodywor ... rch-1.html
  • FIS are definitely serious about anti-doping. Saltin and Damsgaard are no-nonsense guys who tell it like it is. They don't sugar-coat the truth to protect the sports image.
  • I wonder if Britain's 400m wonder-girl considers a one-year ban for missing three dope tests a fair swop for World and Olympic titles? :lol:

    The wonder girl has never posted remarkable times or shown major surprising improvements - her achievements are more due to the inexplicable failure of others on the day. Her victories have been more a case of mental fortitude than outstanding physical achievement.

    Pretty much accepted within the sport even by the most stringest of anti-drug campaigners that she was guilty of negligence rather than doping - the procedures for OOC testing were changed in the wake of her sanction, first in the UK then worldwide, to make the system more responsive to micro-changes in schedule. The system first put in place was too inflexible and resulted in a ridiculous level of missed tests in that first year.

    Didn't she shave 0.7 seconds off her PB 1 month after returning from her ban?
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 24,109
    :shock: :shock: :shock:
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,904
    Is this thread returning after a four year ban?
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • RichN95 wrote:
    Is this thread returning after a four year ban?

    Chapeau, Rich. I saw Biking Bernie's name at the top of the list of today's threads and thought I'd gone into some sort of time warp....
Sign In or Register to comment.