UCI Bike Weight Rules
OK, I suppose there's two things here.
1. Do you agree with a weight limit rule?
2. Do you agree with the current weight limit?
With respect to question 1, I think there's two issues:
a. Is the bike safe (this, I think should have nothing to do with weight but instead there should be standard tests for a bike's durability, strength under stress)
b. Does every rider have an "equal" advantage with respect to equipment?
What makes this particularly interesting is how, unlike in any other professional sport I can think of, hobbyists (with tons of money) can now have better equipment than professionals.
Cervelo just created a 54cm frame that weighs 648 grams. Given that frame, you could make a bike that's safe, very stiff (it was tested by Thor Hushovd) and weighs under 12 pounds!!:
Bike Parts: Model:
Frame Cervelo's New Frame (54cm) 1.42lbs
Fork Look HSC 6 SL | Carbon | Carbon C 43.00
Brake Set Ciamillo Gravitas | Carbon 175.00g
Brake Shift Shimano Dura Ace 7900 379.00g
Cable Shimano Stainless | 120.00g
Housing Shimano Housing | Gray 160.00g
Crank Shimano Dura Ace 7950 Compact Aluminum 175.00 34-50 710.00g
Bottom Bracket Shimano Dura Ace 7900 | Aluminum | Silver
Front Derailleur Shimano Dura Ace 7900 68.00g
Cassette Shimano Dura Ace 7900 | Steel/Titanium | 12-25 163.00g
Rear Derailleur Shimano Dura Ace 7900 | Grey/Carbon | S 166.00g
Chain Shimano Dura Ace 7900 252.00g
Wheelset Lightweight Ventoux 190 SE 20-24 Spokes Carbon Rim Carbon TUB 950.0g
Skewer Set Salsa Titanium flip-off | Red | Titanium 85.00g
Rim Tape Velox Cloth Rim Tape 15.00g
RimTape Set Velox Cloth Rim Tape 7.50g
Tire Set Continental Giro | Black | | TUB | 22.00 232.00g
Pedal SpeedPlay X/1 Ti | Black/Ti 150.00g
Headset Look Head-Fit | Black
Stem 3T ARX Team | Black | 70.00 | 84.00 120.00g
Handlebar 3T Rotundo LTD | STD | Carbon | Carbon | 42.00 169.00g
Handlebar Tape Fizik Handlebar tape | Black
Seatpost Look E-Post OEM Spec'd 330mm Setback 175.00g
Saddle Selle Italia CX Zero | Carbon 75.00g
Bike Weight: 11.21lbs
Bike Sub-Total: $19,987.75
(Corrected wheelset weight)
1. Do you agree with a weight limit rule?
2. Do you agree with the current weight limit?
With respect to question 1, I think there's two issues:
a. Is the bike safe (this, I think should have nothing to do with weight but instead there should be standard tests for a bike's durability, strength under stress)
b. Does every rider have an "equal" advantage with respect to equipment?
What makes this particularly interesting is how, unlike in any other professional sport I can think of, hobbyists (with tons of money) can now have better equipment than professionals.
Cervelo just created a 54cm frame that weighs 648 grams. Given that frame, you could make a bike that's safe, very stiff (it was tested by Thor Hushovd) and weighs under 12 pounds!!:
Bike Parts: Model:
Frame Cervelo's New Frame (54cm) 1.42lbs
Fork Look HSC 6 SL | Carbon | Carbon C 43.00
Brake Set Ciamillo Gravitas | Carbon 175.00g
Brake Shift Shimano Dura Ace 7900 379.00g
Cable Shimano Stainless | 120.00g
Housing Shimano Housing | Gray 160.00g
Crank Shimano Dura Ace 7950 Compact Aluminum 175.00 34-50 710.00g
Bottom Bracket Shimano Dura Ace 7900 | Aluminum | Silver
Front Derailleur Shimano Dura Ace 7900 68.00g
Cassette Shimano Dura Ace 7900 | Steel/Titanium | 12-25 163.00g
Rear Derailleur Shimano Dura Ace 7900 | Grey/Carbon | S 166.00g
Chain Shimano Dura Ace 7900 252.00g
Wheelset Lightweight Ventoux 190 SE 20-24 Spokes Carbon Rim Carbon TUB 950.0g
Skewer Set Salsa Titanium flip-off | Red | Titanium 85.00g
Rim Tape Velox Cloth Rim Tape 15.00g
RimTape Set Velox Cloth Rim Tape 7.50g
Tire Set Continental Giro | Black | | TUB | 22.00 232.00g
Pedal SpeedPlay X/1 Ti | Black/Ti 150.00g
Headset Look Head-Fit | Black
Stem 3T ARX Team | Black | 70.00 | 84.00 120.00g
Handlebar 3T Rotundo LTD | STD | Carbon | Carbon | 42.00 169.00g
Handlebar Tape Fizik Handlebar tape | Black
Seatpost Look E-Post OEM Spec'd 330mm Setback 175.00g
Saddle Selle Italia CX Zero | Carbon 75.00g
Bike Weight: 11.21lbs
Bike Sub-Total: $19,987.75
(Corrected wheelset weight)
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Comments
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95 grammes for a set of wheels...ye gods :shock:donrhummy wrote:OK, I suppose there's two things here.
1. Do you agree with a weight limit rule?
2. Do you agree with the current weight limit?
With respect to question 1, I think there's two issues:
a. Is the bike safe (this, I think should have nothing to do with weight but instead there should be standard tests for a bike's durability, strength under stress)
b. Does every rider have an "equal" advantage with respect to equipment?
What makes this particularly interesting is how, unlike in any other professional sport I can think of, hobbyists (with tons of money) can now have better equipment than professionals.
Cervelo just created a 54cm frame that weighs 648 grams. Given that frame, you could make a bike that's safe, very stiff (it was tested by Thor Hushovd) and weighs under 12 pounds!!:
Bike Parts: Model:
Frame Cervelo's New Frame (54cm) 1.42lbs
Fork Look HSC 6 SL | Carbon | Carbon C 43.00
Brake Set Ciamillo Gravitas | Carbon 175.00g
Brake Shift Shimano Dura Ace 7900 379.00g
Cable Shimano Stainless | 120.00g
Housing Shimano Housing | Gray 160.00g
Crank Shimano Dura Ace 7950 Compact Aluminum 175.00 34-50 710.00g
Bottom Bracket Shimano Dura Ace 7900 | Aluminum | Silver
Front Derailleur Shimano Dura Ace 7900 68.00g
Cassette Shimano Dura Ace 7900 | Steel/Titanium | 12-25 163.00g
Rear Derailleur Shimano Dura Ace 7900 | Grey/Carbon | S 166.00g
Chain Shimano Dura Ace 7900 252.00g
Wheelset Lightweight Ventoux 190 SE 20-24 Spokes Carbon Rim Carbon TUB 95.00g
Skewer Set Salsa Titanium flip-off | Red | Titanium 85.00g
Rim Tape Velox Cloth Rim Tape 15.00g
RimTape Set Velox Cloth Rim Tape 7.50g
Tire Set Continental Giro | Black | | TUB | 22.00 232.00g
Pedal SpeedPlay X/1 Ti | Black/Ti 150.00g
Headset Look Head-Fit | Black
Stem 3T ARX Team | Black | 70.00 | 84.00 120.00g
Handlebar 3T Rotundo LTD | STD | Carbon | Carbon | 42.00 169.00g
Handlebar Tape Fizik Handlebar tape | Black
Seatpost Look E-Post OEM Spec'd 330mm Setback 175.00g
Saddle Selle Italia CX Zero | Carbon 75.00g
Bike Weight: 11.21lbs
Bike Sub-Total: $19,987.75
Looks like you forgot the tub of grease
so many cols,so little time!0 -
Probably impractical to test each new frame design for ultimate strength due to the cost of the tests and the pressures of time that manufacturers and teams are under (it can get complicated enough as it is, just look at the Specialized Shiv...). As the rules stand they're probably a pretty good compromise, Boardman said as much recently and if anyone could pick holes in the UCIs technical stance it's him. You've got to set the limits somewhere...
Yes, you can build a much lighter bike (as the above example illustrates) but look at the cost...and while Thor Hushovd may have tested it this only demonstrates it's ridability not it's longer term durability.This might not be a problem in the pro ranks - I remember Sean Kelly saying that he never had a problem with the notoriously 'soft' Vitus Dural frames, then adding that he was given a new frame before every major race. But even if you could afford the bike above, could you afford to replace it, or components, on a regular basis?
And if you want bike lighter than the current limits then feel free to buy one... just remember to use steel bolts and cages to hold your bottles so that it comes in above the weight limit if you are going to ride a UCI commissaired event. The weight limits are fine.0 -
Does every rider have an equal advantage with respect to equipment?
Ask Contador if Bruyneel has paid for those wheels he had to buy himself...0 -
There appears to be an ISO standard for bikes ISO 4210 last revision appears to be 1996. No idea what it says though as you have to pay for it. There is also the more recent European standard CEN 14766 which seems to incorporate EN 14781 for racing cycles. So there we go there are actually plenty of standards out there, hnece the UCI could always insist on the bikes passing a relevant standard or helping create one if required.0
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nick hanson wrote:donrhummy wrote:Wheelset Lightweight Ventoux 190 SE 20-24 Spokes Carbon Rim Carbon TUB 95.00g
/quote]
95 grammes for a set of wheels...ye gods :shock:
Looks like you forgot the tub of grease
Those wheels should be 950g - not 95g.0 -
I definitely agree with the principle of having a weight limit (though have no technical knowledge to know whether the particular limit is correct!).
The recent debacle surrounding the new costume designs in swimming showed how technology can give athletes significant advantages or disadvantages. I prefer the idea that sport is all about the individual athlete or team, and not their equipment.
Obviously for commercial reasons bike and component manufacturers need to be able to tinker about at the fringes of what's possible within the limits of the regulations.IN THE SADDLE
"Locals are watching from pavement cafés. Non-racers. The emptiness of those lives shocks me." Tim Krabbé, The Rider0 -
I'd keep the current weight limit - in fact I'd go back to steel bikes and 5 speed blocks.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
Weight isn't a penalty in cycling, it's the aero advantage that helps. So it's a bit like weighing a swimmer's outfit before a competition and ignoring the material with which the suit is made.
I think the UCI limit is arbitrary and you can have a 6kg bike these days that is suitable for riders. The idea is to create a level playing field but in pro cycling that's never a concern since practically every team has the best of the best. The rule could be useful for lower level racers but even then a rider on a modest 8kg bike is not really at a disadvantage.
Once again the UCI seems to act in arbitrary, incoherent and bizarre ways.0 -
That's if you don't mind the kid next door having a £199 MTB which is technologicly more advanced than your racing bike.Tom Butcher wrote:I'd keep the current weight limit - in fact I'd go back to steel bikes and 5 speed blocks.
Having been riding for over 40 years, I'd say thank God for progress.0 -
Bike weight limits should be proportional to the weight of the rider.
Stops us light riders being penalised!0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Bike weight limits should be proportional to the weight of the rider.
Stops us light riders being penalised!
B0!!0cks
If I had my way, lighter riders would be brought up to a minimum weight, like jockeys.
Alberto mightn't be so sparky uphill if he was ballasted to 80kg.'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'0 -
ynyswen24 wrote:[snip]
And if you want bike lighter than the current limits then feel free to buy one... just remember to use steel bolts and cages to hold your bottles so that it comes in above the weight limit if you are going to ride a UCI commissaired event. The weight limits are fine.
Just fill the seat tube with crushed ice for the weigh in... just make sure you've drilled a wee drain hole under the bottom bracket.
Simples!0 -
andrewgturnbull wrote:ynyswen24 wrote:[snip]
And if you want bike lighter than the current limits then feel free to buy one... just remember to use steel bolts and cages to hold your bottles so that it comes in above the weight limit if you are going to ride a UCI commissaired event. The weight limits are fine.
Just fill the seat tube with crushed ice for the weigh in... just make sure you've drilled a wee drain hole under the bottom bracket.
Simples!
And if you want to take drugs, just make sure you stop taking them in enough time to get them out of your system or pick races that you are petty sure won't have any controls in. Or find some short cuts to take where you won't be seen.
Any more ideas about how to cheat in races?0 -
it isn't a level playing field as it favours heavier riders since the bike weight is a smaller percentage of their own weight...
the weight penalty of the bike increases as the rider gets lighter
but you have to have some arbitary limit"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
LangerDan wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Bike weight limits should be proportional to the weight of the rider.
Stops us light riders being penalised!
B0!!0cks
If I had my way, lighter riders would be brought up to a minimum weight, like jockeys.
Alberto mightn't be so sparky uphill if he was ballasted to 80kg.
interesting angle
but then the bike doesn't loco itself like a horse"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Bike weight limits should be proportional to the weight of the rider.
Stops us light riders being penalised!
difficult to implement... at the start of the race or the end?"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
mididoctors wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Bike weight limits should be proportional to the weight of the rider.
Stops us light riders being penalised!
difficult to implement... at the start of the race or the end?
Start.
Same for everyone.
Can do it either when they're weighing the bikes, or at the start sign in, where they have to stand there to sign in anyway.0 -
I think that one of the reasons behind it is so that developing nations are able to compete against more wealthy nations on standard affordable bikes. It may be possible to build a light bike for a couple of thousand pounds but if you are relying on second hand kit and donations you are immediately disadvantaged so I guess the UCI are trying to mitigate this.
They got agreement from al the major manufacturers about the 6.8 limit and evidently there hasn't been a big demand to lower this, despite what individual manufacturers might say. It is quite good marketing to have a bike 'too light' at a good price I suppose.0 -
LangerDan wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Bike weight limits should be proportional to the weight of the rider.
Stops us light riders being penalised!
B0!!0cks
If I had my way, lighter riders would be brought up to a minimum weight, like jockeys.
Alberto mightn't be so sparky uphill if he was ballasted to 80kg.
Take it you're no lightweight then? 0 -
andrewgturnbull wrote:ynyswen24 wrote:[snip]
And if you want bike lighter than the current limits then feel free to buy one... just remember to use steel bolts and cages to hold your bottles so that it comes in above the weight limit if you are going to ride a UCI commissaired event. The weight limits are fine.
Just fill the seat tube with crushed ice for the weigh in... just make sure you've drilled a wee drain hole under the bottom bracket.
Simples!
Into the realms of F1 here. I remember they had a season where the cars had to be X cm from the floor when measured. So all the teams introduced system to raise the car for the measurement and lower it for the race, crazy stuff. The weight limit is fine. It just sets a level playing field. I really don't think races are decided by equipment. The TT is probably the only stage where it's of any meaningful significance0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:LangerDan wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Bike weight limits should be proportional to the weight of the rider.
Stops us light riders being penalised!
B0!!0cks
If I had my way, lighter riders would be brought up to a minimum weight, like jockeys.
Alberto mightn't be so sparky uphill if he was ballasted to 80kg.
Take it you're no lightweight then?
I'm what used to be called a "rouleur" (before the word gained its current meaning of "Alf Garnett on a bike").'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'0 -
Smokin Joe wrote:
That's if you don't mind the kid next door having a £199 MTB which is technologicly more advanced than your racing bike.Tom Butcher wrote:I'd keep the current weight limit - in fact I'd go back to steel bikes and 5 speed blocks.
Having been riding for over 40 years, I'd say thank God for progress.
Is tennis any better because they have moved on from wooden rackets, is golf more exciting because of the advances in technology ?
Wherever the line is drawn it's going to be arbitrary. Do we allow engines - no, but we allow electronic shifts, we allow certain degrees of aero tubing but why not allow fully faired recumbents ?
I think 5 speed blocks would demand the skill of either climbing in a big gear or spinning a small one for the finish - 11 sprockets at the back takes away one of the demands made of cyclists of previous generations.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
Perhaps we should go the whole hog with this retro stuff.
"Here's your bikes for the rest of the tour lads, they're 3lb heavier than what you are used to and have only ten speeds, don't worry about the friction shifters, you'll soon get used to them.
"And by the way, tomorrows stage is 220 miles long and the day after is a 3 way split stage, 100 miles in the morning, 25 mile tt in the afternoon and a two hour criterium in the evening. And by the way, one of the rest days has been cancelled just so you can prove you're as hard as they were in the sixties".
Go down a bundle I should think 0 -
donrhummy wrote:
What makes this particularly interesting is how, unlike in any other professional sport I can think of, hobbyists (with tons of money) can now have better equipment than professionals.
Lighter: Yes
Better: I wouldn't say so.
There are loads of super light products that cost amazing amounts but they wouldn't stand up to the performance of Red, DA or SR - Simple.0 -
I think that the tech has made sport better as now they hit the ball faster in tennis and ride the bikes faster. I my book most fast sports are exciting sports0
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andrewgturnbull wrote:
Just fill the seat tube with crushed ice for the weigh in... just make sure you've drilled a wee drain hole under the bottom bracket.
Simples!
What you do is get a spoke, bend it in half, hang a few washers over it and stuff it into the down tube. The b'##"rs will never work out where the little tinkling noise is coming from.0 -
Kléber wrote:Weight isn't a penalty in cycling, it's the aero advantage that helps. So it's a bit like weighing a swimmer's outfit before a competition and ignoring the material with which the suit is made.
So you're telling me that if a pro were riding up Mt. Zoncolan and you took 4 pounds off his bike, it would make no difference? (your words: "Weight isn't a penalty in cycling")0 -
Is tennis any better because they have moved on from wooden rackets
I think that if you watch tennis matches from the 50s compared to today then you'd say yes. Don't know if that's the rackets though.0
