Canti's or V Brakes?

Paul 8v

I've recently aquired a road frame I'm going to build up into a fixed wheel bike, It's got Cantilever studs on it. My first thought was to build it up with V Brakes as I've always assumed they were better but all the cyclo cross guys use cantis. Is there any specific reason for that? I know Canti's are more of a pain to set up but which one is better?
I only ask as at the moment I'm used to 180mm disks, I'll need as much stopping power as I can get!

PHcp

V's are more powerful, though there's not that much in it. Cantis have better clearance (useful if it's muddy) Cross bikes with STI/Ergo shifters use cantis because the levers don't pull enough cable for Vs without using an adapter which can get clogged with mud. This isn't a problem on fixed, just make sure you get V brake specific levers, Tektro make some nice ones.

tlw1

for a built up fixed I would go with avid V's - put them on my SS & great stopping power (in the dry)

Paul 8v

Excellent, thanks guys, glad you said V's, much nicer to set up 8)

ugo.santalucia

I don't understand.

If you are building a fixed wheel, you don't want too much stopping power... all you want is a front emergency brake, as you already have a break on the rear wheel (that's you).

As for which system, for a fixed wheel I would go for a caliper, it looks better... any would do

Avanti Roman

I was told by a cyclocross specialist that V brakes require a different range of movement than that offered by road levers. As I understand it it the ratio of lever movement to actuate a canti is different to that required to actuate a V. The lever movement to cable movement ratio is 2:1 instead of 3:1 or something like that.

For this reason older style flat barred levers won't work properly with Vs either, as I was building a flat barred bike this wasn't a problem so I just used V's. You could try it and it works fine but I'd just check it out with the shop before you buy some new V's if I were you.

Paul 8v

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I don't understand.

If you are building a fixed wheel, you don't want too much stopping power... all you want is a front emergency brake, as you already have a break on the rear wheel (that's you).

As for which system, for a fixed wheel I would go for a caliper, it looks better... any would do

I've never ridden a fixed before so I'd prefer to have a front and rear brake to be honest. It's got cantilever bosses on the frame so it might not be possible to fit calipers anyway, I'll have to check when I pick up the frame.

My Dad has always run a front and rear on his fixed but the again they're mafac centre pulls so he needs all the help he can get!

Monty Dog

If you're riding fixed anywhere remote hilly then fit decent brakes - trying to stop a fixed bike downhill at 60kph with only a flimsy front brake is asking for trouble with your legs going at 150rpm. Mini-vees should be adequate for road use with regular levers. The reason that cross bikes use cantis is for mud clearance - the actual amount of braking from cantis can be somewhat marginal and besides, when you're racing you don't really want to use your brakes

Paul 8v

There's one very steep hill which will feature in most of my rides, the drivers are a bit special around here too so as you say, good brakes are a must!

Tom Butcher

I do hilly rides on fixed with just a front brake - the only real worry is in the wet and to be honest I'd rather avoid going 36mph on it anyway.

ugo.santalucia

I still don't understand what you think you are doing with a rear brake on a fixed. Looking for troubles, maybe... your legs are a much better brake than any caliper or V-brake. If you want two brakes go for a single speed instead.

All you need is one good front brake and calipers are the strongest. The reason V-Brakes and cantilevers are fitted on cross bikes is because they don't get jammed that easily with mud, but mechanical they're inferior to calipers.

Finally, although San Francisco is the mecca of fixed wheel riders, they generally cycle around the marina and none venturees up or down the 30% roads. Fixed is just not made for hills... I think you're better off with a single speed

Samson1

The cable pull ratios for cantis and standard Vs are different but you can bu Vs with shorter arms that work with road brakes. They do a set of Tektro ones on Planet X for instance.

blorg

The whole issue with brakes on cyclocross bikes is that they have to work with the cable pull in a STI lever, which is designed for calipers.

So you have a bodge either way, cantis which are a pain in the neck or mini-Vs which you have to set very close to the rim. Mini-Vs work very well then but your rims must be super-true or everything goes to pot.

On various bikes with STI levers I have:

(1) low profile cantis with STIs- awful awful stopping power
(2) wide profile adjustable cantis with STIs- better stopping power, have to run quite close to rim
(3) mini-Vs with STIs- best stopping power but you need to run them so close if you get the slightest buckle you are fecked. If you back them off, stopping power goes to 0.

All are substantially worse than the other bikes I have with STIs and calipers which in the dry rival the discs on my MTB. Another consideration is that cantilevers give you better mud clearance which is important in cross but not so on the road.

The lucky thing however if you are building a fixed gear is you don't have to worry at all about the cable pull of STI levers as you will not be using them. On my fixed Tricross I have normal, full size V brakes with Tektro RL520 levers- these are levers specifically designed for V-Brakes. Far and away the best stopping performance of any drop bar/wide tyre bike I have and none of the issues with having to run the brakes right up to the rim. Handy Campy-style QR on the lever too.

blorg

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I still don't understand what you think you are doing with a rear brake on a fixed. Looking for troubles, maybe... your legs are a much better brake than any caliper or V-brake. If you want two brakes go for a single speed instead.

No, they are not. They are substantially worse. I have three fixed gear bikes, two have rear brakes and I certainly use them. It's a lot easier to modulate than using your legs which are basically either on or off. A back brake is essential in slippery conditions as you will crash if your front wheel locks but can tolerate quite a bit of skidding on the rear. It is also useful as a drag on long descents or if you find yourself needing to scrub speed in a turn.

The third is my track bike which on road I can fit a front with different fork but not the back. Which is fine in dry conditions, but why you would not fit a rear brake if you have the option I don't know.

Paul 8v

Will I be able to fit the levers to a track bar? Just thinking they don't normally have the grooves to route the cables through on them. If it has to be a road bar I'm not really sure about all the different types of bar, Belgian, Italian style etc

ugo.santalucia

Paul 8v wrote:

Will I be able to fit the levers to a track bar? Just thinking they don't normally have the grooves to route the cables through on them. If it has to be a road bar I'm not really sure about all the different types of bar, Belgian, Italian style etc

Grooves help, but they're not essential. Just fix the cables to the bar with some tape and then cover with bar tape and you'll be fine.

Again, normally fixed wheel bikes have small cross type brake levers

blorg

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Again, normally fixed wheel bikes have small cross type brake levers

Fixed gear bikes have a wide range of levers depending on what the manufacturer or owner puts on them. There is no "normal."

Bear in mind if going for that style of lever you want something like a Goldfinger (BMX brake.) Cross brakes on the tops are actually interrupter levers and won't work on their own, they just bend the cable passing through them, they don't terminate it.

Personally I prefer standard road levers in the normal place, you can get at them easily from both hoods and drops; I wouldn't spend much time on the tops unless climbing, even then more often on the hoods. I would miss the hoods as a hand position to be honest, that is half the attraction.

An advantage though of the likes of a Goldfinger on an actual track bike used as such is that the lever is on a hinged clamp and so it is very easy (compared to other options) to remove the lever and front brake to use the bike on the track. With road levers as you wrap the bar tape over them you would really need a second set of bars.

ride_whenever

You can use an interrupter as a sole lever, the nipple for the cable sits quite happily in the stop so it works fine.

blorg

ride_whenever wrote:

You can use an interrupter as a sole lever, the nipple for the cable sits quite happily in the stop so it works fine.

I did not know that, thanks! I have them on two bikes but both with main levers.

ride_whenever

The only issue is that they're not very tarty!!!!!!

Dia compe make some gorgeous levers that can be operated easily with either hand which are great if you're only running one brake.they can be seen here

willharris10

Just in response to Blorg's post, I'm looking to buy a Specialized Tricross second hand. Is it easy to remove the top bar brake levers?

Paul 8v

I think like blorg says, it's nice to have an extra hand position, also I'd rarely be on the tops of the bars, either the hoods or the drops and that's probably be when I'd be trying to slow down in a hurry!
If you can just tape the cable to the bar that should be fine, I didn't know if it'd move about that's all

blorg

willharris10 wrote:

Just in response to Blorg's post, I'm looking to buy a Specialized Tricross second hand. Is it easy to remove the top bar brake levers?

It should be easy enough although you would probably have to install new brake cable outers. The way the interrupters work, you have an outer going from the main lever as far as one side of the interrupter and a new outer going from the other side of the interrupter down to the brake. So if getting rid of the interrupters you would need to replace this with a new continuous outer (or use some sort of coupler.)

Having said that, I also planned to get rid of them when buying the bike but ended up finding them very useful particularly in traffic (I use my Tricross as a fixed commuter.) They don't really get in the way of anything.