Cleat Position

Porta105

Evening all,

I recently purchased some look keo classic's and I'm just wondering whether anyone has any good tips or links to help me get the cleats in a near perfect position?

I've googled and googled, checked books etc and found quite a good few things but I thought someone here must have some decent advice too.

Thanks in advance!

Sam

dennisn

I my case my toes tend to point outward when I walk, run, or ride so I set my cleats so that my toes point slightly outward. However, be alert that there is only much that you can point them out like that due to the fact that your heel needs to be able to clear the cranks and frame. I set my cleats so that the center of the pedal axle is just a bit behind the ball of my foot. This position seems to be becoming the "conventional wisdom" but
sprinters usually like to have the pedal axle in front of the ball a bit(more conductive to sprinting - not that I would know about sprinting ). In either case the ball over the pedal axle will get you in the right neighborhood.

salsarider79

I set my cleats up straight, as I have a few degrees float. That float allows my feet to sit where they want to.
The way I was taught to set cleats up, was to sit on a bench with your feet dangling down. Look at where your rest naturally. You may find your feet rest slightly inward or outward, or they may sit fairly straight. Position your cleats according to wether your feet sit inward/outward/straight.

iain_j

Been having trouble lately with my knee, to do with the cleat position. Best way I found was to place my foot on top of the pedal but without clipping in, ride around the park, and watch how my foot naturally sits on the pedal - angle of my toes, distance out from the crank arm, fore/aft position. If the position feels different when you attach the cleat and clip in, you've got it wrong.

Oh, and when you make adjustments after riding with the cleats a certain way for a while, it will probably feel "wrong" but that's cos your leg's not used to it - give it a few miles and see how it feels (ride easily though).

on-yer-bike

As far back as possible and centred. Until I did this I suffered numb toes and agony in my left foot. I now hear this also gives you the best leverage.

Porta105

Cheers for the tips guys I'll give them a try on the turbo in a few days and see how I get on.

Just one last question, how quickly does it become noticable that they're in the wrong position?

iain_j

I tend to notice straight away, it just feels "unnatural". Like trying to walk with your foot twisted.

mmacavity

Achilles Tendonosis / tendonitis
"Can occur where the achilles tendon is placed under more tension than it is able to cope with and so as a result small tears develop." According to www.feetforlife.org.
Putting your foot as far forward on the pedals (cleats/ shoe plates as far back on the shoe) will help reduce the loading on the achilles tendon.

fishyweb

See http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/s ... eats-24284

mmacavity

http://www.aapsm.org/cycling.html
http://www.nexuspodiatry.com.au/informa ... Cycle_Corr
http://www.podiatry-arena.com/

Porta105

Cheers for the tips guys, hopefully I've got them set up ok for now but I'll keep the allen key in my wedge for any on-the-fly adjustments.

rake

mmacavity wrote:

Achilles Tendonosis / tendonitis
"Can occur where the achilles tendon is placed under more tension than it is able to cope with and so as a result small tears develop." According to www.feetforlife.org.
Putting your foot as far forward on the pedals (cleats/ shoe plates as far back on the shoe) will help reduce the loading on the achilles tendon.

yes. but not to far forward. 8mm about right.

JohnnyAllez

Read some scientific stuff from a "respected" German scientist bloke, he`d adapted shoes so the cleats were in the middle of the arch of the foot (the part you use to dig with a shovel for instance) and then he used some elite cyclists and the shoes and measured their power outputs, with and without the adapted shoes. They produced quite a bit more power with the cleat position in the middle of the arch ! If you think anout it, you don`t press down on the blade of a spade with the ball of your foot, max. firce is using the arch of your foot. I`ve moved the cleats on my shoes as far back as the slots will allow (not that much TBH) and it does feel better.

Ben6899

I have my cleats positioned so the ball of my foot is over the pedal spindle. I'd suggest simply finding a position that works and sticking with that.

mmacavity

http://www.springerlink.com/content/xr7864750337865x/

"Among cyclists it is a matter of common knowledge that the axis of the pedal has to be placed right beneath first metatarsal head at the forefoot (metatarsophalangeal position). Thus plantarflexion of the foot provides forces that result in evenly distributed cranktorque. Recent research has shown that even top cyclists neither deliver constant crank-torque nor flex the ankle excessively. Considering these facts and making biomechanical considerations it seems possible that much of the muscular output of the lower limb is used exclusively to stabilize the ankle. Torque in the ankle joint is — due to the long lever arm — fairly high. Reducing this lever arm by placing the pedal beneath the metatarsus (tarsometatarsal position) reduces torque in the ankle-joint and thus reduces muscular activity in the lower limb. .................. Results are that metatarsal pedalling reduces muscular effort for calf muscles up to more than 20%. Activation durations of thigh muscles do not channge significantly, frontal shank muscle activation duration rises remarkably. This and further research could ultimately result in the development of a new cyclingshoe construction. "

dennisn

mmacavity wrote:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/xr7864750337865x/

"Among cyclists it is a matter of common knowledge that the axis of the pedal has to be placed right beneath first metatarsal head at the forefoot (metatarsophalangeal position). Thus plantarflexion of the foot provides forces that result in evenly distributed cranktorque. Recent research has shown that even top cyclists neither deliver constant crank-torque nor flex the ankle excessively. Considering these facts and making biomechanical considerations it seems possible that much of the muscular output of the lower limb is used exclusively to stabilize the ankle. Torque in the ankle joint is — due to the long lever arm — fairly high. Reducing this lever arm by placing the pedal beneath the metatarsus (tarsometatarsal position) reduces torque in the ankle-joint and thus reduces muscular activity in the lower limb. .................. Results are that metatarsal pedalling reduces muscular effort for calf muscles up to more than 20%. Activation durations of thigh muscles do not channge significantly, frontal shank muscle activation duration rises remarkably. This and further research could ultimately result in the development of a new cyclingshoe construction. "

What's the name of that pedal that centers the pedal axle over the arch of the foot???
Saw one a while back, on a triathletes bike(of course).

LeighB

''Proper cleat placement is important, even though the new floating-cleat designs have made it far less critical. There are basically two things to set up- approximate cleat angle and fore/aft positioning.

For the angle, we generally set up the cleats so that, when the shoe is moved inwards, your ankle won't quite hit the crank. With this position, all the pedal systems we offer allow a significant outward angle from neutral (in line with the bike), meaning that your foot can go just about anyplace it wants to. The only reason for changing the cleat position so it allows less outward movement is for those who have difficulty moving their heels out far enough to exit the pedals.

For fore/aft, we start by positioning the cleat so the ball of your foot is centered over the pedal. This position generally results in high energy transfer from foot-to-pedal without undue stress on the knee. However, for those who've experienced knee problems, the first thing that should be tried is to move the cleat towards the back of the shoe, dramatically reducing the amount of leverage that the pedal can exert against your foot and knee.''

mmacavity

http://bikefitkit.com/fit_kit/rad_kit.php

Steve_b77

Just moved mine back on my commuter shoes, it feels soo much better!

I can wiggle my toes more in my shoes now

bobbymeister

After years and years of 'guestimating' my cleat position using magazine articles, websites and hearsay, I finally decided to get something approaching a definitive diagnosis last year.
The result was a revelation, a significant adjustment to my right foot, no more knee pain and more power.
Looking back, it defies logic that I left it largely to chance for 20 years.
I went to see Adrian Timmis - who I've shamelessly bigged up on this forum before now - who did the cleat placement and footbed thang, but I'd imagine that Cyclefit, Hewitt's etc would all be just as fine.
I paid £100 for the whole thing, and I can honestly say it was the single biggest improvement I have ever made to my bike - and that's seeing off a lot of competition from carbon, titanium and other exotica ;-)

Coach H

bobbymeister wrote:

After years and years of 'guestimating' my cleat position using magazine articles, websites and hearsay, I finally decided to get something approaching a definitive diagnosis last year.
The result was a revelation, a significant adjustment to my right foot, no more knee pain and more power.
Looking back, it defies logic that I left it largely to chance for 20 years.
I went to see Adrian Timmis - who I've shamelessly bigged up on this forum before now - who did the cleat placement and footbed thang, but I'd imagine that Cyclefit, Hewitt's etc would all be just as fine.
I paid £100 for the whole thing, and I can honestly say it was the single biggest improvement I have ever made to my bike - and that's seeing off a lot of competition from carbon, titanium and other exotica ;-)

I'd struggle quoting Hewitts as he told me on my bike fit that cleats go in the middle anything else is just "buggering about". £50 not well spent.

bobbymeister

That don't sound good.
I'll stick to recommending Mr Timmis then.
Just didn't want to sound too much like a free ad service.

mmacavity

Porta105 wrote:

Evening all,

look keo classic's ............links to help me get the cleats in a near perfect position?


Sam

http://www.lookcycle.com/en/all/look-cy ... o-fit.html
"Keo fit is an indispensable tool for cleat positioning and adjustment.
It is a patented system developed LOOK in collaboration with the University of Sherbrooke in Canada. Using a magnetic sensor it measures exactly the amount of angular foot movement during a rotation of the crankarm. With that data, you can find your optimal cleat position and decide which type of KEO cleat you require (red, grey, or black) for your personal pedaling style.
"