Lazy rebuild - can I use the same spokes?

normanp
normanp Posts: 279
edited May 2010 in Workshop
I know it is lazy - but I think I could rebuild fast this way (assuming no spokes damaged). Or is this spoiling the ship for a hap'rth of tar? (or is it ha'porth or ha'pworth or hapeth or ha'p'orth?)

Comments

  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    If you are just putting a new rim on then no problem providing it is the same size. If I was building a new wheel then I would use new spokes.
    I have wheels on the 3rd and 4th rim now with the same spokes and hubs.
    The spokes on my MTB have had both rims and hubs changed at different times. Never had any problems.
    My Fleet.
  • normanp
    normanp Posts: 279
    Thanks again John. Its is just new rims - so I'll just re-use the spokes.
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    saving a haperth them.
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    Easy way is to slacken off all the spokes then tape the rims together making sure the valve holes are together. Then just transfer the spokes one side at a time.
    My Fleet.
  • Clark_ee
    Clark_ee Posts: 5
    normanp wrote:
    I know it is lazy - but I think I could rebuild fast this way (assuming no spokes damaged). Or is this spoiling the ship for a hap'rth of tar? (or is it ha'porth or ha'pworth or hapeth or ha'p'orth?)


    The last one. ha'p'orth.
    Being a bit of a language pedant, I can tell you that the apostrophe indicates where the words are abbreviated.
    So....
    Ha(lf) p(enny w)orth
    becomes
    ha'p'orth
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    its your neck at risk. you take the chance if you like. good luck.
  • andrew_s
    andrew_s Posts: 2,511
    Re-using spokes like this is not a problem, provided that:
    a) You've not been getting any broken spokes.
    b) The spokes haven't been gouged by a chain down the back of the cassette or similar.

    A bike shop won't re-use spokes because they don't know (a), and they lose money on the repair if you bring the re-rimmed wheel back with a broken spoke.
  • balthazar
    balthazar Posts: 1,565
    Old spokes are actually preferred, on the basis that any which were going to break –enfeebled by material flaws– will have broken and been replaced long ago. Spokes have an indefinite service life: as long as they are undamaged as the above post describes, you are in a (slightly) better position with old than new.

    Replacing a rim as John T describes is how many built their first wheels. Product cycles are so short these days that it can be hard to find replacement rims that haven't changed in design, however.
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    sapim has a fatigue life cycle chart for its spokes. they are testsed on a rig and loaded and unloaded with a set weight until they break. then a graph of the dirrerent spokes is made. i dont know what you mean by indefinate life? also if you relace them in different pulling angles it will alter the bending angle where the nipples are strying to sit straight in the rim.
    http://www.sapim.be/index.php?st=produc ... atiguetest
    notice the rays are the best but cost a fortune. also the graph fades towards the end meaning some spokes started to beak sooner and some later.
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    If just changing a rim the spokes remain in the same place in the hub so no problem there. My MTB wheels have had new hubs as well as rims but I have had no trouble at all in over 3 years of use. If you build properly there should be no worries. If I had several spokes break in a wheel before needing a new rim then I would definately use new ones all round when I changed the rim.
    My Fleet.
  • balthazar
    balthazar Posts: 1,565
    rake wrote:
    sapim has a fatigue life cycle chart for its spokes. they are testsed on a rig and loaded and unloaded with a set weight until they break. then a graph of the dirrerent spokes is made.
    I can find no description of this rig, or the test load, or indeed any analysis of the test procedure on their website. All I see is an illustration that looks –at a glance– approximately like a graph, which implies that their most expensive product is the best. Would you link to the appropriate pages?
    rake wrote:
    i dont know what you mean by indefinate life?
    I mean that they are not expected to fail, ever, in normal use: indefinite. Plenty of people have replaced rims many times, maintaining spokes that have lasted for more miles than many may ride in a lifetime. There is no trend towards spoke failure with age, even though their failure mode is fatigue; that fatigue ordinarily manifests itself early.
    rake wrote:
    also if you relace them in different pulling angles it will alter the bending angle where the nipples are strying to sit straight in the rim.
    Only the facetious or the ignorant would try this. Spokes should remain in place in the hub, for the hub's sake.
    rake wrote:
    http://www.sapim.be/index.php?st=produc ... atiguetest
    notice the rays are the best but cost a fortune. also the graph fades towards the end meaning some spokes started to beak sooner and some later.
    As I said, I see only an advertisement.
  • bice
    bice Posts: 772
    wish I had read this before removing rim and taking out all the spokes. I plan to re-use old spokes, BTW, as it is the rim that is ruined.
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    bice wrote:
    wish I had read this before removing rim and taking out all the spokes. I plan to re-use old spokes, BTW, as it is the rim that is ruined.
    you should see the marks on the hub flange to see which way they go.
  • bice
    bice Posts: 772
    Rake: that's a good tip - except I went and cleaned the hub with wire wool.! It's a Sturmey Archer drum brake. I have got some copper washers which may help with the strain when I start rebuilding at the weekend.
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    You almost always get distortion of the hub spoke holes - I always make sure that the spokes are fitted in the same pattern. I often replace the nipples when respoking, brass is soft and if the plating wears off, can corrode.There's no reason why the spokes on an evenly tensioned wheel wouldn't last indefinitely as the spokes are never stressed beyond their elastic limit.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • bice
    bice Posts: 772
    I can see how the spokes fitted to the hub, so will follow that pattern. i ahve also bought Roger Musson's exhaustive ebook, which is excellent from the half that I have read. I have bought some brass washers, but the hub is alloy and quite thick - its a Sturmey Archer internal hub with drum brake. Would you use the washers or not?

    I was just going to re-use the nipples and ordered only six for spares. Perhaps I should get the full 36.

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