P X carbon frame coating

fastercyclist

Hey guys,

I'm getting some money for Christmas (hooray) and thought about how I'd like to spend it and was thinking of using it to paint my bike. However I have a Planet X with a carbon frame. It has a really weird finishing surface. Old man reckons it's a powdered coating. From what I've seen online about it - it would be hell to remove and paint over ? ?

Does anyone know if it is possible to do a DIY job on this? Or if it in fact actually coated by another method ?

I'd really like to have a dark green bike with gold stars on it - Don't like the boring business-man factory paint job :P

Advice appreciated!

*I looked at some guys in Bristol that were referenced to in my search on the topic but they're far too expensive. Budget is £100 max.

**I might start with the wheels (Planet X Model B wheelset). The working surface would be the bit where the breaks clinch on. I presume a normal paint job here would get worn off by the breaks. Any way to stop that?

Scrumple

It is carbon fibre with a clear varnish.

Simple as that.

Scrumple

Mind you, you've not said what colour you bought it?

fastercyclist

"Black" Although it looks like a chequered pattern of dark greys.

Just like in this picture.

http://www.planet-x-warehouse.co.uk/acatalog/SL_Pro_Carbon_Road.html

The end result I'd hope would look similar to the picture below for colour. Just mentally transform the bag into a bike and the writing into gold stars of varying sizes.

cougie

So you've got £100 burning a hole in your pocket - and you want to cock up the looks of your bike with a god awful diy paint job ??

Spraying the wheels too ??

Any decent bike resprayers will do a nice job but your paintscheme may be over £100. Really don't attempt diy - it will look bloody awful and don't spray anything without a grownup with you.

fastercyclist

cougie wrote:

So you've got £100 burning a hole in your pocket - and you want to fool up the looks of your bike with a god awful diy paint job ??

Spraying the wheels too ??

Any decent bike resprayers will do a nice job but your paintscheme may be over £100. Really don't attempt diy - it will look bloody awful and don't spray anything without a grownup with you.

I'm 21 :evil:

Also got a lot of free time on my hands so I won't rush anything but the poster about about the effect of sanding on carbon fibre is a bit worrying.

ravey1981

Have a look at bob jackson cycles....they do a strip and paint service for around £100 if I recall correctly...not sure if they do carbon though.

Give them a ring...at worst you'll get some advice...

cougie

Get a pro job done - bike will look as good as new. Then you can add the gold stars yourself - it will look very festive.

Scrumple

Bit of a fool's errand.

Removing varnish, to paint, to varnish over....

STOP.

Waste of time. and it WILL look awful. Really.

rake

the checkered pattern is purely a cosmetic weave to hide the beutiful raw carbon,usefull if the quality of the frame is messy.nitromors paint strip it. then paint.

balthazar

It's probably quite practical to paint over the lacquer coat by cutting it with wet and dry, and using a relevant primer. I'd suggest consultation with paint suppliers, but this is a fairly conventional situation; there's no need to remove the lacquer.

A DIY job is certainly possible, and with enormous care it will be possible for even an inexperienced paint sprayer to achieve a high quality finish. However, that will be a lot of work. Ideally, you have a high volume compressor and a spraygun; and an automotive paint shop nearby. If not, it's possible to get good quality with rattlecans, but you'd need a lot of them, because the only way to deal with the generally uneven finish these inevitably give, is to apply many, many coats, and carefully cut each one. Dozens of light coats will get you there.

In short: do-able, if you're prepared to see a big and tricky job through. Done less than perfectly, it will look terrible.

Monty Dog

rake wrote:

the checkered pattern is purely a cosmetic weave to hide the beutiful raw carbon,usefull if the quality of the frame is messy.nitromors paint strip it. then paint.

DON'T - applying paint stripper of any description to a composite will F*** it up - the only way to remove the old lacquer is through an abrasive process - by hand with wet and dry or by blasting with plastic beads (specialists only). If you a quality finish, get a professional to do it, it you want it to look cr@p and worthless, then DIY - particularly as you have no paint / refinishing experience.

lae

Don't listen to all the people who say you can't repaint a bike yourself on a budget without it looking pants - it simply isn't true. If you put in the work, and you're careful about it, it can be done even with halfords spray cans (although I would recommend Holts from a motor factor, because it's half the price and better quality).

What I'll do is give you a very very quick guide on how to do it, just to give you an idea of the amount of work. Then if you want to do it, there are lots of online articles and books you can buy on how to paint things properly.

You'll need -
lots of sandpaper 1000-2000g
scotchbrite pads
degreaser
loads of clean cotton cloths (old t-shirts work well)
masking tape/painters tape
polishing compound
4 400ml cans primer
6 250ml cans colour
3 400ml cans lacquer

This will probably come to 40-£50 depending on how much you have in the shed. If you want to paint a lot of stuff, it's worth getting a used compressor and spray gun because the paint is so much cheaper (and needs far less sanding to make it smooth, too). You can get half-decent used stuff for under £50 for everything. Mine was about that much and I've even painted a car with it, with very good results.

Before you start though, don't paint in this weather unless you're painting indoors. It's too cold and too moist. I wouldn't dare paint an expensive frame outside anyway, in case a bumblebee decided to land on it and ruin my paintjob.

I also can't stress enough that - the most important part of painting is preparation. You can paint a Rolls Royce with old cellulose paint out of a showerhead and if you did the prep right, it'd still look amazing. High-gloss paints on bikes/cars etc aren't like house wall paint - the slightest imperfection in the base will get magnified and be ten times more noticeable when you put the paint on. Don't bother painting the next coat until the coat before it is absolutely perfect.

1. Strip the bike down to the frame. Don't even bother trying to paint a bike with parts attached. You can just about get away with leaving the bottom bracket in, if you're careful with the masking.

2. Prep for primer - remove stickers, key the lacquer with scotchbrite pad, degrease the frame, mask threads etc

3. Spray on primer, as many coats as it takes, wet-sanding with 1000g between coats. Cure for at least 24 hours in a warm place, with nothing touching paint

4. Spray colour, wet-sanding with 1500-2000g between coats, 24 hours in warm place to cure. Spray on your stars etc after it has cured

5. Spray lacquer, sand with 2000g at the end, leave to harden for a week in a warm place, polish with 2-stage compound and admire your amazing unique paint job.

I'd seriously recommend doing a lot of practice first. The first couple of DIY paint jobs I did, I messed up a bit. Not enough sanding, not enough coats of paint, not being patient enough to wait between coats or for it to cure - it shows up really badly. An old bike frame, or even some old bits of metal (old fridges etc) are great for practicing on.

You can shot-blast a steel frame, and you can use paintstripper on an aluminium frame. You can't do either of those to a carbon frame, so you've got to make sure your paint job is pefect.

balthazar

@frinkmakesyouthink:

That's a nice, thorough overview of the process—thanks for taking the time to write it. It's what I meant by "a big and tricky job"! It takes a certain mentality to make a great painted surface— a reluctance to cut corners, almost an enjoyment of the long process. It's quite zen; most of the painters I know are quite placid in nature. I agree with you that—with the right attitude— you can use nearly any procedure to achieve a high finish.

lae

No problem! I think I've written it out so many times on this forum I'll just save this page and copy/paste next time it comes up :shock:

ronthechef

Go for it fastercyclist,,get some photo posted when its done,, I have been doing a chainset over the last few days, As frinkmakesyouthink said,,,, its all the prep,,, mis en place saves your assss

gundersen

some very funny replies I must say

but silly comments to one side


I used to detail new cars so I can give you one piece of advice.

when you have finished painting it - buff it. That is what is done to get a mirror finish.

Anonymous

Green with gold stars ?

Are you mental ?

Honestly mate, if you are going to paint this bike, fair play to you, but have a look at some other colours. You will have to fly on that colour of bike to justify the rancid choice of colours. I think the reason we have not seen a bike painted this colour before is blatently obvious. It will look cack.

On the other hand............nah, forget it. Good luck.

tomsdad

dont know if its possible but the car boys at FUTURE, Wrapped a car in vinyl.
why not ask the administrator to pop over to the car boys and ask them

tomsdad

have a look might be worth a phone call /e mail
.Might start off a new trend!!!!!

http://www.raccoon.co.uk/

pawlfreehub

I've actually done this job quite a few times, carbon frames included. A pro job will cost more than £100. You don't want to cut the laquer back to the carbon unless you're brave. Aerosols will be a pain, difficult to get a quality finish with and the paint is a single stage paint and not ultimately as tough as two pack systems (and with minimum quantity orders for a base coat and laquer the paint will set you back £50, then + all the equipment needed as well).

You'd also want a good mask, ie air fed mask to spray nasty paints.

Bike frames are the hardest thing I paint and I've had a bit of practice and have all the gear. There's a reason the pros charge as they do.

I'd suggest practicing on something that doesn't matter much, we all have to start somewhere - assuming we decide to start at all that is.

Bugly

rake wrote:

the checkered pattern is purely a cosmetic weave to hide the beutiful raw carbon,usefull if the quality of the frame is messy.nitromors paint strip it. then paint.

unlikely - the weave is integral to the carbon, different 'cloths' have different weaves but the carbon frames are built of a cloth with weaves running across each other to provide strength, unidirectional carbon in a tube would be mechanincaly weak as the laquer would be the only the thing providing torsional rigidity - that is bugger all.

to the OP the carbon tubing is extremely thin and easy enough to damage, if you decide to paint etch the laquer dont go down to the carbon, and paint over that not the bare carbon.

ride_whenever

I did a bit of painting of the bits as detailed in this thread. As a first timer i'm happy to do small parts, but getting a good finish on a frame will be a nightmare. Purely from a "where the hell would i do it" standpoint. You can hang the odd bike bit around the house, but you will end up knocking a frame, i chipped a few of the parts and had to re-primer them. However the finish has held up pretty well, particularly on the hubs, which is what i was worried about, post lacing.

The frame however is going to a local powdercoaters. Have you tried chatting to one of the local auto shops?

rake

Bugly wrote:

rake wrote:

the checkered pattern is purely a cosmetic weave to hide the beutiful raw carbon,usefull if the quality of the frame is messy.nitromors paint strip it. then paint.

unlikely - the weave is integral to the carbon, different 'cloths' have different weaves but the carbon frames are built of a cloth with weaves running across each other to provide strength, unidirectional carbon in a tube would be mechanincaly weak as the laquer would be the only the thing providing torsional rigidity - that is bugger all.

to the OP the carbon tubing is extremely thin and easy enough to damage, if you decide to paint etch the laquer dont go down to the carbon, and paint over that not the bare carbon.

i know carbon is in different weaves for strength, but that top layer is very often cosmetic. and my bike is a unidirectional carbon fibre monocoque which in one plane is the strongest sort, greater than a 45 degree weave. it is used in varied directions for the type of load. its only the binding resin that holds any carbon fibres together as each fibre isnt all that long, (critical length) above which longer fibres make no difference.

redddraggon

rake wrote:

its only the binding resin that holds any carbon fibres together as each fibre isnt all that long, (critical length) above which longer fibres make no difference.

Incorrect, CFRP frames are normally made from continuous fibre composites.

discontinuous and randomly orientated composites do exist, but they are not used in frame construction.

rake

arent they woven into a long fibre from smaller ones like wool is. its easier to work with but even so it isnt any stronger above the critical length because that is the point at which the fibres are sufficiently well gripped by the resin they can be broken before they are pulled through the matrix, unable to carry any more load. critical length is surprisingly short according to a composites book i read. a rough figure is about an inch. also the resin/strand ratio is important. adding too many fibres can make the cf actually weaker as well as too little. apparently the finer (and more expensive to produce) fibres can make a stronger material. i think thats the main difference between grades.