Smimano v Campagnolo

Bikerbaboon
Bikerbaboon Posts: 1,017
edited December 2009 in Road beginners
get Sram :wink:
Nothing in life can not be improved with either monkeys, pirates or ninjas
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Comments

  • alfablue
    alfablue Posts: 8,497
    I can't see you getting a lot of views on this one :wink:
  • CiB
    CiB Posts: 6,098
    If you want a groupset that changes smoothly and efficiently and bears the benefit of years of development and marketing support, buy Shimano.

    If you want a groupset that changes smoothly and efficiently and bears the benefit of years of development and marketing support and you want a bloodline that goes back to the dawn of cycling, buy Campag.
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    if you want something that breaks buy campag. :o
  • richk
    richk Posts: 564
    My two road bikes have a) Xenon & b) Tiagra. Would be happy to buy either again.
    There is no secret ingredient...
  • Velonutter
    Velonutter Posts: 2,437
    edited December 2009
    Even though I am a devout Campag man, I do read quite a bit.

    The Tiagra Groupset doesn't appear too brilliant especially the shifters which many complain about the ergonomics, the Sora and 105 Groupsets are much better.

    As for Campag they all appear reliable and it is just weight that differs, the shifters do operate slightly differently and the cables are much tidier as the go under the bar tape.

    So an honest opinion if your not worried about weight and Tiara are out of the equation, then would suggest that you go for the best that you can afford.

    Oh and as ChrisinBicester says : -

    "and you want a bloodline that goes back to the dawn of cycling, buy Campag"
  • pst88
    pst88 Posts: 621
    edited December 2009
    With Xenon/Veloce you get 10 speed over the 9 speed Tiagra which is one better right? Plus the gear cables are routed under the bar tape with all current Campagnolo groupsets as opposed to Tiagra where the cables come out the side. If you go for Campagnolo all the 10 speed groupsets are compatible so you could swap out any parts with the top groupset if you so desired. AFAIK 9 speed is a dead end with the top end Shimano groupsets so if you wanted to upgrade any parts in future you'd be looking at replacing the entire drivechain. Plus the Shimano hoods/levers are ugly. That said the Xenon levers are made of plastic if that bothers you... not sure of the Tiagra ones are metal?
    Bianchi Via Nirone Veloce/Centaur 2010
  • +1 for SRAM if available!
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,892
    Slow-N-Old wrote:
    Even though I am a devout Campag man, I do read quite a bit.

    The Tiagra Groupset doesn't appear too brilliant especially the shifters which many complain about the ergonomics, the Sora and 105 Groupsets are much better.
    As for Campag they all appear reliable and it is just weight that differs, the shifters do operate slightly differently and the cables are much tidier as the go under the bar tape.

    So an honest opinion if your not worried about weight and Tiara are out of the equation, then would suggest that you go for the best that you can afford.

    Think you've got the bit in bold wrong - it's Sora that runs on a different gear change system (ironically more similar to Campag!) and has problems with people being able to reach the lever from the drops.

    OP, do you use some form of ergo / STI system at the moment? If so it may be worth sticking with what you know, otherwise I would say try both systems to see which suits you better. I believe Campag are stopping production of Xenon and Veloce but that shouldn't cause any problems. I've just got a bike with Tiagra, the first integrated system I've used, it's fine but I do feel the levers could be more positive this could just be down to them needing some tuning though. I will be upgrading them as soon as I can afford though as I have a 10 speed 105 rear mech.
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    sram is light, crisp, good value, new, comfortable,good looking, magnesium metal gear lever which doesnt break like plastic, 1-1 pull ratio,independant brake lever,concealed cable routing with two options,short lever throw,compatible with shimano cassettes and chains,carbon brake lever.................................................... :wink:
    its a no brainer.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,892
    Stanley222 wrote:
    Hi all

    The bike I am about to order comes with the choice of either Smimano Tiagra 9 speed Double or Campagnolo Xenon/Veloce 10 speed Double groupset.
    Having trouble deciding on which one is best to go for so wondered what advice you could all give me!?!

    Thanks in advance :wink:

    Why are people confusing the issue by mentioning SRAM when the OP states the choices available to them? :? I agree from my brief use of SRAM on a test ride that it is a nice system but it isn't an option and would cost extra to get fitted.
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    knowledge is useful. he may not have been aware of their road range in his considerations.
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    Stanley222 wrote:
    Hi all
    The bike I am about to order comes with the choice of either Smimano Tiagra 9 speed Double or Campagnolo Xenon/Veloce 10 speed Double groupset.
    Having trouble deciding on which one is best to go for so wondered what advice you could all give me!?!
    Thanks in advance :wink:
    You opened a can of worms there.
    I use Shimano which I have had no trouble with in 12 years. I have not used Campag so can not comment on how it is to use.
    You should try both systems out to see which you feel most comfortable with. The main difference is the actual method of changing gear and the feel of the levers. Both are good reliable kit. I would ignore the comment that 9sp is old hat, Campag 10sp is going the same way. The 10sp does however give you more gear options.
    My advice is to road test both systems and go with the one you like best. Remember that there is very little interchangability between the two makes so if this may matter in the future bear it in mind. This is why I have never tried Campag. My first recent road bike had Shimano and as I built the stable up I wanted to be able to swap wheels etc about.
  • pianoman
    pianoman Posts: 706
    Is it a Bianchi you're getting by any chance? Just wondering as they seem to come pre-built with Shimano and Campag options.

    If it's an Italian bike, then surely that makes the decision for you? Campag :D
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Stanley222 wrote:
    What's the problem with campag - some people are stating it breaks!?!

    Nothing wrong with campag. On this forum, it doesn't really matter what product you ask about, someone will tell you it's junk or have some horror story about it.
  • blorg
    blorg Posts: 1,169
    Either will almost certainly be fine, best to try them out and see which you prefer. One of the key differences will be the hood shape- this is actually not trivial as most cyclist spend much of their time riding "on the hoods."

    May be worth bearing in mind that Xenon has been discontinued but I presume this doesn't matter much as it is cross-compatible with other 10-speed Campagnolo stuff that is still around. But you might end up having to replace parts with something more expensive (Veloce) - at the moment Xenon stuff is still readily enough available in any case.

    Shimano is in the process of redoing their road groupsets at the moment too so probably doesn't make a lot of difference... part availability may be a bit better going forward with Shimano simply as it is more prevalent in the marketplace.

    Veloce would certainly generally be considered to be "above" Tiagra in the hierarchy but if it's just a rear derailleur... but they all work, best try them out and see which ergonomics you prefer.
  • Ben6899
    Ben6899 Posts: 9,686
    I run Shimano 105 on my best bike and Campag Veloce on the winter bike I have just built.

    At this level of groupsets, I would go for the Veloce over the Tiagra.
    Ben

    Bikes: Donhou DSS4 Custom | Condor Italia RC | Gios Megalite | Dolan Preffisio | Giant Bowery '76
    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ben_h_ppcc/
    Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/143173475@N05/
  • pianoman
    pianoman Posts: 706
    Veloce over the Tiagra.

    Veloce is NOT equivalent to Tiagra. I've typed this in many other threads but let's just do so for the 87th time, updated in time for 2010...........

    Sora = Xenon
    Tiagra = Mirage
    105 = Veloce
    Ultegra = Centaur/Athena
    Dura Ace = Chorus
    Dura Ace 7900 = Record
    As for Super Record - hope you have a friendly bank manager :P

    On another note, how much do you plan to spend on the bike?
  • iain_j
    iain_j Posts: 1,941
    Get shimpagnoRAM. You can't go wrong.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,892
    PianoMan wrote:
    Veloce over the Tiagra.

    Veloce is NOT equivalent to Tiagra. I've typed this in many other threads but let's just do so for the 87th time, updated in time for 2010...........

    Sora = Xenon
    Tiagra = Mirage
    105 = Veloce
    Ultegra = Centaur/Athena
    Dura Ace = Chorus
    Dura Ace 7900 = Record
    As for Super Record - hope you have a friendly bank manager :P

    On another note, how much do you plan to spend on the bike?

    It's too simplistic to just go through the ranges and say lowest = lowest etc. The two systems are different, pick the one you prefer!
  • blorg
    blorg Posts: 1,169
    Veloce is generally considered to be a better groupset than Tiagra. In the same way the on the Shimano side, 105 is better than Tiagra, or with SRAM, Rival is better than Tiagra.

    But it depends on what the mix is. Frequently you see bike manufacturers spec a bike and then upgrade just the rear derailleur to a higher groupset, as that is all a lot of beginners look at. The then advertise it as a "whatever the RD is" bike when it is not. It's a marketing ploy.

    So if the Campy bike was mostly Veloce, yes it is a better groupset. If it is just a Veloce RD and the rest is Xenon that is another matter. You may still have people arguing that Xenon is better than Tiagra but that is more of a religious matter.

    If you prefer the Tiagra shifters I would go with that bike. If you don't like the ergonomics of the Campy shifters you can't really "upgrade" that, the higher-end Campy shifters have the same ergonomics and you can't (easily) use Shimano shifters with a Campagnolo drivetrain.
  • Ben6899
    Ben6899 Posts: 9,686
    PianoMan wrote:
    Veloce over the Tiagra.

    Veloce is NOT equivalent to Tiagra. I've typed this in many other threads but let's just do so for the 87th time, updated in time for 2010...........

    I'm fully aware of that fact.
    Ben

    Bikes: Donhou DSS4 Custom | Condor Italia RC | Gios Megalite | Dolan Preffisio | Giant Bowery '76
    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ben_h_ppcc/
    Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/143173475@N05/
  • Ben6899
    Ben6899 Posts: 9,686
    Stanley222 wrote:
    Ben6899 wrote:
    I run Shimano 105 on my best bike and Campag Veloce on the winter bike I have just built.

    At this level of groupsets, I would go for the Veloce over the Tiagra.

    Why is that please?

    Because, as Pianoman stated upthread, Veloce is more equivalent to Shimano's 105, which is one higher than Tiagra.

    At the end of the day, you need to ride both brands (same groups if possible) and decide for yourself.
    Ben

    Bikes: Donhou DSS4 Custom | Condor Italia RC | Gios Megalite | Dolan Preffisio | Giant Bowery '76
    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ben_h_ppcc/
    Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/143173475@N05/
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Pross wrote:
    PianoMan wrote:
    Veloce over the Tiagra.

    Veloce is NOT equivalent to Tiagra. I've typed this in many other threads but let's just do so for the 87th time, updated in time for 2010...........

    Sora = Xenon
    Tiagra = Mirage
    105 = Veloce
    Ultegra = Centaur/Athena
    Dura Ace = Chorus
    Dura Ace 7900 = Record
    As for Super Record - hope you have a friendly bank manager :P

    On another note, how much do you plan to spend on the bike?

    It's too simplistic to just go through the ranges and say lowest = lowest etc. The two systems are different, pick the one you prefer!


    +1
  • blorg
    blorg Posts: 1,169
    Stanley222 wrote:
    blorg wrote:
    If you prefer the Tiagra shifters I would go with that bike. If you don't like the ergonomics of the Campy shifters you can't really "upgrade" that, the higher-end Campy shifters have the same ergonomics and you can't (easily) use Shimano shifters with a Campagnolo drivetrain.

    I prefer the Tiagra shifters as everything is integrated into the one shifter that can be easily operated on the drops. As you can see from the links I posted the Campag ones have the little thumb changer too. i find this difficult to operate on the drops and doesn't look as good - but like I said these can be changed!
    The Campy shifters can't be changed, they use that little thumb shifter all the way up to Super Record. You either like it, (and many do) or you don't.

    D_280%20COMSR9.jpg

    Go for the Tiagra.
  • blorg
    blorg Posts: 1,169
    That is a fair bit of Veloce; if the chainset is Ultra-Torque I would reckon the spec on the Campy bike is probably "better" - but at the end of the day if you are more comfortable with the Tiagra levers I would probably go for that.

    Sora cassette and brakes should be fine. I am presuming the Tiagra crankset is the new external bearing one.

    Both will work fine, so go with the one you subjectively prefer on the bike.

    My point about the levers is that if you go Campy and you don't like them from an ergonomic point of view, the only way you can change to Shimano-style is to junk most of your groupset and start again. Or use a adapter which is a bit of a cludge.
  • pianoman
    pianoman Posts: 706
    You still haven't said yet what amount of money you are looking to spend.............
  • Only real cyclists would go for Campag :lol:

    * :shock: Ducks for cover*
    jedster wrote:
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    FCN 3 or 4 on road depending on clothing
    FCN 8 off road because I'm too old to go racing around.
  • There's an even bigger question though

    Compact or Standard chainset?
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  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    get one or the other you decide.