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Greenwich town centre pedestrianisation

PorgyPorgy Posts: 4,558
edited June 2010 in Commuting chat
https://consultations.greenwich.gov.uk/kms/dmart.aspx?LoggingIn=tempVar&noip=1
This is a bit worrying for anyone who cycles through Greenwich - Option 2 puts forward the idea of creating a huge gyratory which would makes things increasingly unpleasent for cyclists - and possibly involving a long detour.

There is an option for a contra-flow cycle lane - but then we know how respectful motor vehicles and pedestrians are to that sort of arrangement.

My preference would be to oppose all the above. The consultation ends on 15th of January.

Does anyone else have any opinions on this?

Posts

  • I'm with you - looks a pretty messy idea all round. Traffic gets pretty jammed round there as it is - forcing it into a smaller space/set of raods, doesn't feel like progress (for all the benefits of the pedestrianised area)

    I guess Option 1 is better than 2 under any form, but both are worse than the current situation.

    I have downloaded the PDF and will be sending in my opposition.
  • PorgyPorgy Posts: 4,558
    From what I can tell - local people aren't happy about it either - it seems that this scheme only pedestrianises 5% of greenwich town centre and offers opportunity for the council to "improve" the market, or as locals put it "destroy" the market.
  • Hiya locals, I went to the ''consultations'' on Sunday because I was particularly concerned about what would happen to the Ha'penny Hatch cycle path when it hits 2-lane northbound traffic in Norman Road under any of the 2, 2a, 2b,2c options.

    Portly bloke I spoke to admitted that they hadn't considered cycle access - and indeed the map they're using for the consultation doesn't even show the HHatch. And yet - surely a tick-box exercise - they've made a sham contraflow cyclepath plan (2c) which starts in the middle of nowhere and which you can only get to by cycling on the A2 - and if you're happy about cycling on the A2 you don't need a cyclepath on a quieter street.

    So, purely from a cycling point of view, none of the numbered 2 options are acceptable. Cycles aren't the problem - motor vehicles are, so why do cycles yet again have to make way for vehicles? Cycles reduce congestion so let's get them off the streets. Numpties!!!

    BTW, on local matters, have any of you seen Greenwich's newest ghost bike (photo here: www.deptfordmarmoset.blogspot.com )? Poor woman got zero press coverage, not even a single word of commiseration or regret on the commuting thread. The only forum that I've found that covered this woman's death under the wheels of a left-turning HGV was the lfgss site. All credit to them.
  • PorgyPorgy Posts: 4,558
    BTW, on local matters, have any of you seen Greenwich's newest ghost bike (photo here: www.deptfordmarmoset.blogspot.com )? Poor woman got zero press coverage, not even a single word of commiseration or regret on the commuting thread. The only forum that I've found that covered this woman's death under the wheels of a left-turning HGV was the lfgss site. All credit to them.

    I can't access your blog, but I think I know which incident you're refering to. Yes, I did hear about it. I've stopped posting these things on bikeradar because of the appalling way they are dealt with by some posters, and the terrible name-calling that develops.
  • Porgy wrote:
    BTW, on local matters, have any of you seen Greenwich's newest ghost bike (photo here: www.deptfordmarmoset.blogspot.com )? Poor woman got zero press coverage, not even a single word of commiseration or regret on the commuting thread. The only forum that I've found that covered this woman's death under the wheels of a left-turning HGV was the lfgss site. All credit to them.

    I can't access your blog, but I think I know which incident you're refering to. Yes, I did hear about it. I've stopped posting these things on bikeradar because of the appalling way they are dealt with by some posters, and the terrible name-calling that develops.

    I guess it's for work reasons that you can't see the blog. Anyhow, yes, 66-year-old Stella Chandler hit by a left-turning HGV on 7 Dec, died on 10 Dec. I met her cousin and some of her friends who were there placing wreaths last week. No reason at all why a HGV should turn up that road - it's a purely residential 17% incline road. I suspect the driver made a last-second decision to attempt to avoid the daily Trafalgar Road log jam but the police aren't saying anything to anyone. Anyhow, there's another Greenwich ghost bike there now.
  • Wallace1492Wallace1492 Posts: 3,707
    Porgy wrote:
    BTW, on local matters, have any of you seen Greenwich's newest ghost bike (photo here: www.deptfordmarmoset.blogspot.com )? Poor woman got zero press coverage, not even a single word of commiseration or regret on the commuting thread. The only forum that I've found that covered this woman's death under the wheels of a left-turning HGV was the lfgss site. All credit to them.

    I can't access your blog, but I think I know which incident you're refering to. Yes, I did hear about it. I've stopped posting these things on bikeradar because of the appalling way they are dealt with by some posters, and the terrible name-calling that develops.

    All cyclist deaths are tragic, and my heart goes out to her relatives and friends especially at this time of year. It is a sad inditement of society that this has not been publicised more.
    "Encyclopaedia is a fetish for very small bicycles"
  • PorgyPorgy Posts: 4,558
    All cyclist deaths are tragic, and my heart goes out to her relatives and friends especially at this time of year. It is a sad inditement of society that this has not been publicised more.

    That said - I'm sure I read about it originally on the website of the free local paper - so it did get reported.

    Sadly there seem to be far too tragedies on the road for them all to be widely publicised.
  • Porgy wrote:
    All cyclist deaths are tragic, and my heart goes out to her relatives and friends especially at this time of year. It is a sad inditement of society that this has not been publicised more.

    That said - I'm sure I read about it originally on the website of the free local paper - so it did get reported.

    Sadly there seem to be far too tragedies on the road for them all to be widely publicised.

    Interesting to hear that, Porgy. I searched all the local press but didn't find any reporting whatsoever. Which paper was that?
  • PorgyPorgy Posts: 4,558
    Interesting to hear that, Porgy. I searched all the local press but didn't find any reporting whatsoever. Which paper was that?

    Now you're asking - I didn;t think too much of it at the time - I was searching for the details of cycle accidents locally and a report of the accident turned up - with a map which is why i knew where it happened. She was still alive at that point I think.


    Maybe it got pulled for some reason.

    I'll see if it's in my surfing history
  • navtnavt Posts: 374
    I think progy is referring to www.greenwich.co.uk.
  • navtnavt Posts: 374
    BTW, on local matters, have any of you seen Greenwich's newest ghost bike (photo here: www.deptfordmarmoset.blogspot.com )? Poor woman got zero press coverage, not even a single word of commiseration or regret on the commuting thread. The only forum that I've found that covered this woman's death under the wheels of a left-turning HGV was the lfgss site. All credit to them.

    I saw your comment on Greenwich Phantom and was saddened.
  • PorgyPorgy Posts: 4,558
    My history turned up nothing - and, you know, I couldn't say for sure it was a newspaper website I read it on. Can't even remember what words I used in the search. All I remember is reading about the incident and checking out the location on a google map.

    I thought briefly about posting it on BR - but thought better of it - the last one I posted here turned into an embarrassing bun-fight.
  • iainmentiainment Posts: 992
    I've responded asking that as this is a major cycle commuting hub that the plans be reconsidered with full consideration for cyclists and that cycling contra flows are just deathtraps.
    Old hippies don't die, they just lie low until the laughter stops and their time comes round again.
    Joseph Gallivan
  • Porgy, never mind, navt could be right though - http://www.greenwich.co.uk/index.php?s=cyclist was the only coverage I've been able to find. Thanks for checking anyway.

    Do you commute along the Woolwich Road, Porgy, or cross the river at Woolwich? If you do, you'll know exactly why that road has now got two ghost bikes. I now find myself going up the hill via Charlton when I go that way - it's an unnecessary hill but the roads are less crazy.
  • PorgyPorgy Posts: 4,558
    Actually - since that incident I think I've only cycled that way once, and didn;t notice it - I've been going the Shooters Hill way over Blackheath and along the Old Kent Road into London.

    I'm not very observant at the best of times - tend to concentrate on the traffic and not on the scenery. But I will look out for it tomorrow.
  • Bumpity-bump....

    Revised plans, new consultation began today, deadline for comments about this daftness 15 July. In the interest of pedestrianising 0.16 of a mile in central Greenwich, cyclists travelling east-west through the borough will have to add over half a mile to their journey...

    Some details/background here http://crossfields.blogspot.com/2010/06 ... ion-2.html

    and posted after visiting 2nd consultation.

    http://crossfields.blogspot.com/2010/06 ... ion-3.html
    Problem: there's too much motorised traffic on the roads in central Greenwich. Solution: make alternative means of transport take longer journeys...
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