Ultegra or Force?

Muztard

I'm looking to upgrade from my current Shimano 105 to Ultegra. Does the 2010 Ultegra come in black?

If not, is SRAM Force worth a punt?

maddog 2

google is your friend Muztard

http://cycle.shimano-eu.com/publish/con ... ra_sl.html

http://www.sram.com/taxonomy/term/147/b ... src/series

bobtbuilder

I've got Ultegra on one of my bikes and Force on another.

Force is by far the better option. Lighter. Crisper shifting. Better looking.

hopper1

bobtbuilder wrote:

I've got Ultegra on one of my bikes and Force on another.

Force is by far the better option. Lighter. Crisper shifting. Better looking.

Same here.
I rate my SRAM Force way beyond my Ultegra 6700.
I chose ltegra on my last build as it was said to be quite different from the old Ultegra, and, in some ways better than DA :shock:
Still a let down compared to SRAM Force, though.

Muztard

maddog 2 wrote:

google is your friend Muztard

http://cycle.shimano-eu.com/publish/con ... ra_sl.html

http://www.sram.com/taxonomy/term/147/b ... src/series

Thanks Maddog, yep I know about Ultegra SL and that it comes in two finishes but a quick Google didn't indicate if Ultegra was available in grey/black. And isn't Ultegra SL a set below Ultegra?

bobtbuilder

And isn't Ultegra SL a set below Ultegra?

I don't think so. Isn't it just the Super Light version? Same performance but less weight?

Go for Force - you won't look back.

alan_sherman

Last year there was Ultegra 6600 (silver) and Ultegra SL (Ligther and in dark grey finish).

Now there is ultegra 6700 which is silver alloy with bits of black carbon. It is lighter than last years SL and has the gear cables hidden beneath the handlebar tape.


Try SRAM and Shimano shifting back to back and see which style of shift you prefer. Both manufacturers make good stuff so chose on ergonomics (and if that doesn't do it for you go on look / brand kudos). The weight difference is there but these days a few grams is pointless to overall ride.

forward_loop

I have both 6600 and 6700 ultegra. 6700 is crisper shifting (but perhaps thats because componentry is less worn). The fact that the cables are routed round the handlebars though defintately increases the friction and hence the feel.

personally I prefer the 6600 for overall feel, ease of maintenance as in less to go wrong (mechanics within the shifters) and shape of the hoods for the way i ride.

In your position i would look at getting a deal on ultegra sl. I am guessing this would save money all round which has always got to be a good thing

Muztard

forward loop that is a good idea and one I was considering, as the weight saving in my pocket will be more beneficial than the weight saving on my bike ;-))

hopper1

Weight saving on a groupset is not as noticable as saving weight on wheels, etc...
Don't be too critical on weight loss here... You'll lose any benefit as soon as you stick one full bottle in your cage :shock:

inseine

forward loop that is a good idea and one I was considering, as the weight saving in my pocket will be more beneficial than the weight saving on my bike )

but is it worth upgrading from 105 to Ultegra 6600? It's basically the same thing but a bit lighter and you'll never notice the difference. Force is significantly lighter and a different shift that you'll either like of not while 6700 has hidden cables and is NEW!

Gazzaputt

IMO Force is far better all round.

Used both and currently now run one bike with Rival and the other Force/Red mix.

Shifting is better, weight is less and agree about the looks of SRAM!

akkers

some good deals about.............

http://www.merlincycles.co.uk/campagnol ... groupsets/

Muztard

Just returned from LBS, had a look and a chat and I think it's gonna be Ultegra 6700.

Out of interest does anyone know the weight of a 2001 Shimano 105 Groupset?

inseine

Just returned from LBS, had a look and a chat and I think it's gonna be Ultegra 6700.

Out of interest, what swung it for you? I haven't fitted my Force group yet but lots of people are raving about it and I had the same questions as you.

redddraggon

Force by far

TheStone

I've just fitted the Ultegra (6700), but with FSA chainset. Looks the part.
Should get a first ride this weekend.

Internal cables seem good. Some mention of extra friction, but haven't noticed that yet
and the cables don't have much bend in them.

The way the brake cable attaches and pivots is much better.

My previous upgrade was an older 105 to the 6600 version. Much bigger difference
than expected.

Had a quick test of SRAM. Was put off by the double tap and a review that said you'd
upshift when aiming to downshift with no gears left (is that correct?)

OxfordTrefor

I normally ride ultegra.. took a test bike out from lbs with force for a weekend and got used to the change in operation within a few miles .. found the hoods a better shape and more comfortable which would be a factor for me.

paul64

TheStone wrote:

Had a quick test of SRAM. Was put off by the double tap and a review that said you'd upshift when aiming to downshift with no gears left (is that correct?)

Yes that's correct when you are in either your lowest or highest rear cassette gear. In practise it's not really an issue and I have found that you push the levers lightly without actually changing and it is enough to show you don't have another gear left.

I have a mix of old Dura Ace 7700/7401-chainset on my winter Roberts and as I slowly replace items I have stuck with Shimano. The broken LH STI was rpelaced with Ultegra 6600 recently, the old 105 calipers with Ultegra SL brake calipers. I have an Ultegra SL chainset tucked away as my Xmas present to myself to instal in place of the old 7401 square tapered BB etc. This bike is quite a contrast with my summer Viner and SRAM Rival.

I will ignore bike comparisons and component weight issues. Amidst the hundreds of comments and threads on the bike forums I am with the camp that says choice of shifting system doesn't really matter beyond reliability and comfort of the hoods for your own hands. I like the smooth damping of Shimano but it comes at the price of being mushy and degrades unless you pay the steep price of Ultegra or Dura Ace. I like the intelligent design of SRAM and positive changing although there is a slight crudeness whether real or imagined because of that missing smoothness/mushiness.

I don't really care which gear-shifting system I use though, either is absolutely fine, but easy to see how it's a personal thing at the end of the day. Having ridden with the broken LH STI and therefore downtube shift for the past 2 years the repair was interesting. The LH change from inner to outer chainring on Shimano means pushing the whole brake lever in a fair way. I have always used forefinger and middle finger to push the lever and I now find that (as I get older and the symptoms of arthritis set in) I can feel discomfort. With my Rival shifter no such problem as I can pull the inner lever towards me and enable a much shorter throw or arc.

All of the groupsets are a compromise for us in different ways, leaving aside the arguments of weak components in the overall groupsets. I think you have to spend time with them for the nuances to become visible such as the LH upshift for me which I could not have foreseen.

stevenb

Don't forget, you can mix and match.
I am upgrading my Ultegra SL components to SRAM Red. That's the shifters and F/R Mechs.
For the chainset I'm fitting a Fulcrum RS Torq and my cassette on my new wheels is a DA7900 and my chain will also be a DA7900 for smoother quieter shifting.

Much of the shifting issues comes down to cable installation so just ensure that you fit it all neatly and correctly or get your lbs to do it for you.

Ultegra is perfectly reliable though and in the time I have had it on my bike it's been totally faultless.

SRAM Force is lighter as said but you could upgrade a bit at a time. Keep the shifters and mechs the same ie Force or Ultegra and fit whatever chainset you like. I would avoid the SRAM cassette if you prefer quieter shifting.

ps. I have just sold my Ultegra SL shifters and F/R mech's but I will very shortly have my Ultegra SL 53/39 170mm chainset and & BB for sale so keep yours eyes peeled on the classifieds if your interested.

HonestAl

I've not got Force, but do have Rival so I'm not comparing eggs strictly with eggs, but I prefer Ultegra. From the enthusiasm shown here I'm sure Force must be a big improvement over Rival.

hopper1

TheStone wrote:

I've just fitted the Ultegra (6700), but with FSA chainset. Looks the part.
Should get a first ride this weekend.

Internal cables seem good. Some mention of extra friction, but haven't noticed that yet
and the cables don't have much bend in them.

The way the brake cable attaches and pivots is much better.

My previous upgrade was an older 105 to the 6600 version. Much bigger difference
than expected.

Had a quick test of SRAM. Was put off by the double tap and a review that said you'd
upshift when aiming to downshift with no gears left (is that correct?)

I have Force, and I've ran out of gears both ways and despite functioning the lever again, in an attempt to get another gear, it has never changed in the opposite direction!
I'd never heard that before, and would have thought that that would have been a significant enough technical f*ck up, for SRAM to have been slated by all the press.
Laughable... :roll:

rake

i believe the operating mechanisms function exactly the same on sram. just use of different materials for weight and stiffness. i dont think there would be a drastic difference between using force or rival. its trickle down as well, rival 09 takes much from force and red of previous year. the only way i ever shift the wrong way when i dont press the lever far enough until it clicks but thats dazed shifting not equipment fault. no lever would work if you dont engage it p[roperly.its a toothed ratchet.the guts of the mechanism stay still when you move the brake lever has a nice feel.