Do hi-viz jackets help us be seen? Just been hit by a car.

antfly

I`ve just been hit by a car at a roundabout, he said he "didn`t see me but he`s normally very careful about cyclists". Luckily I saw he wasn`t slowing and swerved to the right so that I think he only hit my front wheel and I wasn`t knocked off although the wheel is buckled. It could have been worse but it has made me rethink this road cycling lark, at least at this time of year, {I`ve been doing it two years now} because if drivers can`t see us what chance do we have and I really don`t want to be killed on the road? Is there anything we can do to be more visible when the sun is low in the sky and people have their visors down, would hi-viz clothing make any difference at all in the daytime ? I had a red jacket on.

squired

Whenever they say "I didn't see you" it translates into "I wasn't looking". I had a near crash on a mini-roundabout last week. I honestly thought she was going to hit me without even touching her brakes and everything was going in slow motion (and I was thinking about how to try to minimise my injuries). At the very last minute she did manage to stop, but she was subsequently mouthing that she didn't see me. It was a clear bright morning, so there is only one answer...

As for wearing hi-viz, it was a few years ago now, but I remember there was one study indicating that high viz clothing made no difference in terms of accidents. Whether that is actually the case I don't know, but my view is that in the end accidents are generally from car drivers not looking or paying attention. You could put on a fireproof suit and cover it with burning petrol. If they aren't actually looking, they still won't see you.

sicknote

squired wrote:

Whenever they say "I didn't see you" it translates into "I wasn't looking". I had a near crash on a mini-roundabout last week. I honestly thought she was going to hit me without even touching her brakes and everything was going in slow motion (and I was thinking about how to try to minimise my injuries). At the very last minute she did manage to stop, but she was subsequently mouthing that she didn't see me. It was a clear bright morning, so there is only one answer...

As for wearing hi-viz, it was a few years ago now, but I remember there was one study indicating that high viz clothing made no difference in terms of accidents. Whether that is actually the case I don't know, but my view is that in the end accidents are generally from car drivers not looking or paying attention. You could put on a fireproof suit and cover it with burning petrol. If they aren't actually looking, they still won't see you.

I agree with the above as I drive as well and some just dont look and it has been me moving or stopping that has stopped the accident.

It wil not stop me getting out on my bike but dont have to be very careful at times.

carl_p

Would a hi-viz jacket make any difference? The answer is you will never know. I wear a bright yellow jacket during the winter months so that motorists can see me from a distance. Who knows whether it makes any difference, but it can't do any harm can it? Otherthan offend the fashion police of course.

I'm a country lad and keep my urban cycling to the minimum that as I hate cyling in traffic. Bikes and cars don't mix, especially this time of year.

Glad your are ok though. Get your bike fixed and get back out there asap.

deptfordmarmoset

I always wear hi-vis, not as a guarantee, but on the grounds that I may make myself visible for a few more drivers. Oh, and if a car puts you in hospital, it might just make it that bit harder for the driver to put the blame on the cyclist.

oldwelshman

Hi Viz do make you mor visible in the dark but the problem is riding on a sunny morning with a low sun with damp roads.
This reflects the light off the road and it is very difficult for drivers to see anything.
Yesterday I rode to meet mates and I could not see much as the sun was low.
I always ride as close as possible to he side then and normally a bit slower than usuak and also listen for traffic behind.
If possible I dont riide into the sun on such days and ride opposite direction then return the other way when the sun is higher and roads a bit drier but this is not alwasy possible, especiallt if commuting.
Must be anightmare if commuting and I owuld probably not bother on such a morning.

amaferanga

I had a motorist pull out on me (after carefully looking for several seconds) despite the fact that I was almost at the junction AND had a fluoro jacket on AND I even had my P7 light on strobe (something I don't do often as it's very annoying, but I do switch it to strobe occasionally for passing junctions I know people do pull out of and cut me up). Having pulled out a bit he even stopped and then just as I was about to pass (across in the middle of the road by now) he started pulling out again.

Some motorists wouldn't see you if you were dressed as a chicken and had a set of floodlights shining down on you so you just have to make sure you see them and anticipate their dangerous driving. Sad but true. Bright or fluoro jackets should help, but they don't really make much difference IME.

markos1963

The amount of near misses I have had wearing my bright BRIGHT BRIGHT Euskatel jersey says to me that Hi Viz is pointless. As someone else has said, didn't see you means didn't look/care.

mikeyboy12345

squired wrote:

my view is that in the end accidents are generally from car drivers not looking or paying attention.

True. I've had three car accidents where other motorists have simply driven into the back of me. If they can't see a car in front of them in broad daylight then they'll never spot a cyclist.

Glad you're OK antfly. For my commute I wear a Hi-Viz mainly because, in the event of an accident, the motorist will have a harder time proving they're not at fault. Truth is, I think people are so used to seeing bright fluro clothing that it doesn't register anymore. In Southampton it seems as though everyone works in the docks or similar - people even drive their cars with hi-viz on. But it can't hurt.

zedders

Wearing a Hi Viz does IMO make you stand out more. Even in the day. Surely it's about colour contrast any anything that stands out compared to the normal background can only be a good thing. I don’t always wear my Hi Vis, but if it’s dark, or a dull day such as this morning with heavy rain, then it’s a definite plus.
Something I consider is if in traffic you can get one car or vehicle to see you and they react in some way, such as breaking or moving out to give you some room, then even if vehicles around you don’t see you, they may well react to the ‘other’ vehicle that is actually paying you some attention, and that could be vital. So if one in ten vehicles see you because of a Hi Viz then surely that’s a good thing?
As already said I use the strobe on my P7 too, especially at junctions, roundabout and alike, or in heavy rain, fog or reduced visibility, even in the day. Yeah it annoys some drivers, but I’d rather annoy them then have them not paying me any attention.
On car drivers – well we all take some risk being out there. A million uninsured drivers, thousands without a licence. Half need their eyes testing and nearly all (including myself) speed. Drink drivers, hardly any traffic cops about, road rage, and all - have made roads more dangerous over the last few years. And even when folk are done sentencing is so soft it’s no deterrent. Even so you more likely to be killed in your vehicle than on your bike.
So Antfly, I know your pee’d off but don’t let the bar stewards get you down.

ademort

I n theory Hi-Viz clothing are supposed to make other road users more aware of your presence on the road, at least thats the theory. As we all know accidents also happen during daytime hours when its light and some drivers still use the excuse of "'i,m sorry but i didnt see you''. so at the end of the day we can draw our own conclusions. Personally, i feel much safer with my Altura night vision jacket, Hi-Viz ankle bands and two rear lights,+Macshine and P7 front as well as reflective tape on the bike, rather than no reflective clothing and one basic front and rear light. Having reflective clothing and good lights can only be a plus, especially if you have an accident and the police are involved.
Ademort

hodsgod

I really think it would help. If you really think about how people drive cars, they don't look specifically for anything, they look and movement will catch their eye. Anything at all that helps you to be seen must be good.

I look like a right twat when I am on the road, and I don't mind admitting it, 2 front lights, 2 rear lights and 2 flashing lights on my helmet. Hi viz jacket, and spare small flashing LED lights if I feel the need (rain etc)

edwardonebrow

Go for hi-viz stuff on your legs eg trouserclips or trousers/ leggings with reflective piping. Drivers from behind are more likely to see things that are moving (ie legs moving pedals around)and shining back at them.

Vegeeta

What bugs me is how fast people approach junctions as if there is a small gap they can get into it but then jam on the brakes at the last minute and are a foot out into the road! Then they wonder why I look pissed off at them as I have to ride around them~!!!

Bill D

I drive a lot and ride a bit and all I can say is that there are some situations where hi vis doesn't make any difference at all (like low sun in driver's eyes, or driver not bothering to look at all) and other situations where (as a driver) I definitely see a cyclist sooner if they're wearing hi-vis (such as cyclist in a shaded part of road, or a long way off on an open road). I always wear bright jerseys when cycling on the road - as others have said, it might make a difference....

geoff_ss

Well it certainly can't do any harm and IMO is likely to do good. As a motorist as well I do tend to be on the look out for cyclists even if only because, if I'm fairly local, it might be someone I know.

What I do deplore is the current fashion for very dark or black clothing. On poor visibility days it can make you almost invisible. I've been on my bike in cloudy drizzly weather and hardly seen a rider coming the other way because of his 'stealth-wear' . It's got to be better to make things as easy as possible to be seen.

I'm told that even time trialists have taken to carrying very bright rear lights when competing on dual carriage courses. I haven't actually seen them but it would seem a sensible thing to do.

Geoff

STEFANOS4784

Haven't read all the posts because they were all reeeeeally long.

Anyway this year i've almost been hit by people coming out of junctions at least 5 times, maybe more, now i make the assumption that i haven't been seen, maybe annoying, but not as annoying as lying in a wet road freezing all bashed up.(have had this happen and broke my collarbone-not a nice feeling)

dilemna

+1 for Hi-Viz & Scotchlite. Also the moment I see a driver might pull out, cut me up or come too close I'm covering the brakes and if necesary shout. I was taken out on a roundabout 10 years ago by a car coming up from behind. Fortunately I lived to write this post. A witness an RAC patrol man said of me "He was lit up like a f'kin Christmas tree and the driver still hit him!" I had two front lights, 4 rear and Hi-Viz Scotchlite clothing as well as Scotchlite on my helmet. I only heard the car as it came so quick seeing it's headlights as I looked around a fraction of a second before it hit me. "Don't break my legs!!!"

Many drivers are total air head tossers. I also believe that a small but significant number actually drive at cyclists to scare or run us off the road. Had one today on the club run. I looked behind as this twat in a Vauxhall people carrier was literally scraping up the side of our group. It was a wide road with lots of space and the traffic in each direction was well separated. As he went by me he suddenly moved out quickly to avoid losing his wing mirror. Ar5ehole.

So no, Hi-Viz in practical terms may have little effect in daylight hours, but should you not wear it during low visibility or after dark then IME you reduce your chances of being seen and if struck by a car that is insured, an insurance company will try to argue that you could not be seen so their driver had no chance of avoiding you even if you have good lights ........bast4rds.

antfly

I tend to make that assumption as-well at roundabouts, that even motorists who have seen you don`t always stop but on this occasion being cautious only saved me from being hit fully side on bcause he had no idea at all of my presence until he had actually hit me.
I am inclined to agree with oldwelshman that some conditions are just very treacherous for cycling however careful we are but I may adopt a policy of only going left at dodgy roundabouts in future... I will get some hi-viz gear as-well, if only for dull conditions.

Rich Hcp

I think Hi-Vis is a must at this time of year, the light is dull and flat.

I use bright tops in the summer too.

You can't legislate entirely for people who may look, but not see, just try to make yourself visable.

I tend to avoid right turns, I only ride to try and keep fit and adjust the route as often as I can to avoid it.

If I'm turning right at a roundabout I sometimes turn left and then turn in to a small quiet road, turn around and back to the roundabout and just do a straight on manoeuvre, which may, or may not, be just as dangerous, but I feel safer doing that than turning right, you don't have to cross lanes.

Another thing that has come to mind is just how fast you can go on a roadie and other road users are not always aware of this.

On a roadie you can easily be doing 20 mph, or more and the perseption is that a bike is slow and they percieve you're doing 5-10 mph, rather than 15 to 20, simply because bike are "slow"

I've had a few close (ish) calls on my roadie and far less on my MTB, and I think speed perception errors are part of the reason.

Anyway, make yourself more visable, it can do no harm....

pottssteve

I wear Hi Vis and have flashing front and rear lights, but as has been mentioned above, there are no guarantees.

I find it's much better that I see them...

Pross

Are there any really good horns out there for bikes? It seems to me that we all realise that someone hasn't seen us but don't have enough time to stop so a good loud blast may wake them up. If I were mechanically minded I would try to develop a mini foghorn using CO2 cartridges and get on Dragon's Den (I've patented my idea before any of you nick it :twisted: ), they could save quite a few lives!

sicknote

Pross wrote:

Are there any really good horns out there for bikes? It seems to me that we all realise that someone hasn't seen us but don't have enough time to stop so a good loud blast may wake them up. If I were mechanically minded I would try to develop a mini foghorn using CO2 cartridges and get on Dragon's Den (I've patented my idea before any of you nick it :twisted: ), they could save quite a few lives!

Someone did post a air horn for bikes some time ago but cant remember where or when :roll:

mididoctors

I got hospitalised

..hit from behind on straight road OPTIMUM light conditions while wearing a bright orange hi viz...

the OP answered his own question.... he saw it coming because he read the drivers intentions.


its the one behind that gets you....

all the d1ckheads on mobile phones etc etc etc pulling out in front of you etc etc etc etc are something you can see coming because you can adjust for their lack of attention (to some degree


that being said I did and still do avoid wearing dark clothing.. help these guys out from hitting you

mididoctors

Geoff_SS wrote:

What I do deplore is the current fashion for very dark or black clothing. On poor visibility days it can make you almost invisible. I've been on my bike in cloudy drizzly weather and hardly seen a rider coming the other way because of his 'stealth-wear' . It's got to be better to make things as easy as possible to be seen.

+1.... lots of black out there

mididoctors

Vegeeta wrote:

What bugs me is how fast people approach junctions as if there is a small gap they can get into it but then jam on the brakes at the last minute and are a foot out into the road! Then they wonder why I look pissed off at them as I have to ride around them~!!!

it can be alarming

often cars find it hard to judge a cyclist approaching speed in these "pulled out in front of me" scenarios

I go for the eye contact and a hand jesture of repeated open hand pushing towards them "wait"

all my hand signals for drivers' benefit involve a repeating stabbing action as the moving hand attracts eye attention.

bompington

mididoctors wrote:

a repeating stabbing action as the moving hand attracts eye attention.

Maybe, if they're looking anywhere in your direction - but last week it would just have left me trying to brake with one hand...

NWLondoner

Last Wednesday night I though I was going to get rear ended :shock:

Going up Hammers Lane and I was approaching one of those "escape islands" and all I could hear was this car revving and increasing his speed behind me. Thankfully he overtook both me and the island on the wrong side of the road :roll:


All this to save a few seconds FFS


Last year I wore mainly all black but with reflective piping as well as a reflective headband on my helmet. This year i have gone for an alarmingly bright white jacket 8)

Pross

Unfortunately there are a lot of cyclists out there who seem to find the road and drivers aren't dangerous enough and feel a need to make themselves even harder to see. Last night on my way home from work at about 6.00pm I passed 7 bikes in one fairly busy Cardiff road. 4 had no lights on and another I saw waiting at a junction had a front light that either wasn't on or wasn't working. All the cyclists were in dark clothes. Motorists pulling out of junctions could be fairly justified in not seeing these people and yet if the worst happened could end up in court. Sometimes we are our own worst enemies.

mididoctors

bompington wrote:

mididoctors wrote:

a repeating stabbing action as the moving hand attracts eye attention.

Maybe, if they're looking anywhere in your direction - but last week it would just have left me trying to brake with one hand...

no doubt but you would have realised he hadn't seen it

the eye contact habit tells you a lot.... you already assessed he hadn't seen you?

or alternatively you hadn't attempted eye contact and hadn't assessed anything until very late in the game?

alfablue

In the car driver / cyclist transaction, making eye contact tells the driver that they can keep going with impunity as the cyclist will surely defer to them. I actually make a point of dipping my head in an exaggerated manner to make out I haven't seen them - then any action they take is entirely their own - maybe counter-intuitive, but the eye contact thing just gives permission to the driver (same effect noted when I am a pedestrian - look and they won't stop - don't look and they will).