Difference between Hope Pro 2s and Shimano XT hubs?

simmo3801

Looking at Merlin wheel build on Mavic XC717 rims. Basically what I want to know is would I notice a big difference between the two. Other than a larger dent in the wallet and the ticking freewheel noise? Are Hopes really worth over £100 more for a pair of wheels over xt?

They will be going on a 2005 Kona cindercone with RS Reba race forks which is all I've really upgraded so far. Riding xc and Glentress as it's 11 miles away

supersonic

Main difference is that the main bearings with XT are adjustable loose ball cup and cone, with Hope are cartridge bearings.

The XT uses a replacable freehub body, Hope's is rebuildable.

XT freehub body is steel, the Hope is aluminium (and requires a cassette with an alloy spider).

XT has fixed axles, the Hopes can be changed to most common types.

The newest XTs weights are 175g, 339g (f and r centrelock), the Hope 185g, 285g (6 bolt)

simmo3801

Ok thanks again Sonic, you are truly a font of all knowledge!!

I think XTs for me and put the left over towards mechs as I've just mangled my rear one.

supersonic

Remember though that the older 6 bolt XT hubs are heavier, and don't have as good seals or as quicka pick up on the freehub.

simmo3801

Sphericals!!! If I get the new XTs with centre locks, my old hayes HFX 9 discs won't fit them will they?

Ok just found a centre lock adapter on Superstar for a tenner. Will that be ok or should I go back to looking at different hubs....

supersonic

It'll be fine, or buy some centrelock rotors.

simmo3801

Of course! For some reason (red wine probably) I had thought my forks wouldn't be compatible but they don't have anything to do with the fork. Doh!!!

dave_hill

supersonic wrote:

XT freehub body is steel, the Hope is aluminium (and requires a cassette with an alloy spider).

Unless you upgrade to a steel freehub rotor for another £60.

supersonic

Well obviuosly if you change it, you could fit a ti one to the XT if you wanted!

stubs

dave_hill wrote:

supersonic wrote:

XT freehub body is steel, the Hope is aluminium (and requires a cassette with an alloy spider).

Unless you upgrade to a steel freehub rotor for another £60.

The Hope steel freehub seems to be a porky lump. How come they can machine an alloy freehub to within a thou of its life but the hub with steel freehub body feels way heavier than a Shimano XT hub with steel freehub body when I compared the weight of the two in my hands. Is it something to do with having to cut the steel to the same dimensions as the ally.

supersonic

I think the steel one is 60g heavier than the alloy one.

stubs

supersonic wrote:

I think the steel one is 60g heavier than the alloy one.

Ahh thought it felt a lot heavier than that I need to get my hands recalibrated

dave_hill

stubs wrote:

Is it something to do with having to cut the steel to the same dimensions as the ally.

No. It's something to do with steel being denser than aluminium... :roll:

stubs

dave_hill wrote:

stubs wrote:

Is it something to do with having to cut the steel to the same dimensions as the ally.

No. It's something to do with steel being denser than aluminium... :roll:

Duhh yes I know what I was trying to say but didnt put it across properly was that I am surprised that Hopes steel body comes out almost twice as heavy as the ally version.

I would imagine that a freehub body made using impression die press forging or centrifugal casting with some cnc finishing work would come in a lot lighter. However to build in more lightness the steel freehub body can not be the same dimensions as the ally one therefore Hope would have to use different bearings, springs and pawls. These extra costs plus the high cost of the tool making is probably why the steel freehub comes out so heavy.

If some of the new martensitic precipitation hardenable stainless steel alloys being made by Carpenter were used in a freehub body I am sure you could make a steel body lighter than any aluminium one that would be bombproof and everlasting, the cogs would wear away before they marked the body. Though by the time you worked and finished it it would probably cost more than a Titanium body.

Lockheed are using 17-4PH martensitic stainless steel alloys in airframes now because it is very corrosion resistant, resistant to kinetic heating and can make very light components. The USNavy reckons 10 to 20% of the lifetime cost of a carrier aircraft is down to corrosion so they are prepared to stand the initial cost and very slightly higher weight of the components.

richg1979

i weighed a 09 xt rear 6bolt hub and they weigh exactly 560g. twice the weight of a hope.

both good hubs though, dont get much better for your money than a xt.

supersonic

Shimano don't do years, they do model numbers - what weighed 560g?

Speaking of 17-4, I had a set of golf clubs made from it. They were beautiful. I still have the wedge 15 years on.

Anyway, would be nice if Hope offered a steel freehubbed Pro2 as standard, but it woule weigh more than an XT...

On the flip side though an alloy bodied shimano as an option would be nice.

simmo3801

Ok thanks everyone. I take it something like an SLX or XT xassette on the Hope hubs would be ok?

From Merlin on XT

Double rivets on the 34T sprocket to the alloy spider for increased rigidity

and SLX

•Top 3 sprockets on an alloy carrier to save weight

or just the XT?

Secondly are there any other recommendations than these 2 wheelsets? I've trawled about various forums and most seem to recommend the Mavic with Hope build?

Thanks

bails87

Just the XT and above, and equivalent SRAMs on the Hope hubs

simmo3801

Ok cheers Bails, and everyone else for your help and advice.

dave_hill

stubs wrote:

I would imagine that a freehub body made using impression die press forging or centrifugal casting with some cnc finishing work would come in a lot lighter.

Hope don't use any die castings or forgings. Everything is machined from solid billet.

stubs wrote:

However to build in more lightness the steel freehub body can not be the same dimensions as the ally one therefore Hope would have to use different bearings, springs and pawls.

The steel and aluminium rotor bodies are exactly the same. Same dimensions, same bearings, same springs and pawls. If they weren't that would mean that you'd have to hold different spares in stock. As it is, Hope don't hold different bearings, springs and pawls for steel rotors.

If you machine two identical components, one from 6061 T6 aluminium and one from EN8A steel; hard anodise the aluminium one and case-harden the steel one; then the steel one is always going to be considerably heavier.

(I just plucked those two grades of material out of the air as an example, I don't know what Hope use. But I can't see them using fancy aerospace alloys just for the steel freehubs because they can't form a large proportionof their range. I suspect that they'll use a fairly cheap, easily machined and heat-treatable alloy. That being the case it may have a fairly high lead content, hence the extra mass.)

richg1979

supersonic wrote:

Shimano don't do years, they do model numbers - what weighed 560g?.

it was a m756 the weight was without qr sqewer.

Northwind

Get better scales.

Of course, Hope has the downside to end all downside, the infernal racket. That's the sole reason I had my wheels built on XT. Though YMMV of course

stubs

Northwind wrote:

Of course, Hope has the downside to end all downside, the infernal racket. That's the sole reason I had my wheels built on XT.

+1 every Hope freehub should come with earplugs

Northwind

Or at least earplugs for everyone else

dave_hill

Northwind wrote:

Of course, Hope has the downside to end all downside, the infernal racket.

That, my friend, is the sound of precision Northern engineering.

Captain Turok

dave_hill wrote:

Northwind wrote:

Of course, Hope has the downside to end all downside, the infernal racket.

That, my friend, is the sound of precision Northern engineering.

Or a sound representing the pitter patter of of customers footsteps walking away from purchasing them.

dave_hill

I don't get what the problem is with it.

Personally I prefer the roar of a big hairy-chested American V8 over an all but silent but probably monstrously more efficient Japanese inline four.

stubs

Captain Turok wrote:

dave_hill wrote:

Northwind wrote:

Of course, Hope has the downside to end all downside, the infernal racket.

That, my friend, is the sound of precision Northern engineering.

Or a sound representing the pitter patter of of customers footsteps walking away from purchasing them.

The noise deffo put me off speccing them for my new wheels. I would have liked to support British engineering and I do own other bits of Hope kit but the thought of listening to that bloody racket for the next few years put me right off.

Cant they precisely engineer them so they are a bit quieter dont have to be Shimano quiet just not sounding like a concrete mixer.

ride_whenever

It really isn't that bad...

But quality northen engineering? Just like sturmey archer perhaps, where the tolerances were measured in the number of times you had to hit it with a hammer to get it to fit...

Captain Turok

If I'd want to introduce an unnecessary sound to my bike I'd cellotape a lolly pop stick to the seatstay..

Captain Turok

ride_whenever wrote:

But quality northen engineering? Just like sturmey archer perhaps, where the tolerances were measured in the number of times you had to hit it with a hammer to get it to fit...